> General Discussions
Any true Churches
frecklegirl417:
--- Quote from: Ninny on September 28, 2008, 03:06:54 PM ---Douglas, I love that picture of Jesus. Years ago I heard some pastor on the radio talking about meekness he said "don't mistake Jesus' meekness for weakness, remember that meekness is power under control." I have never forgotten that! How awesome it would be if we could see more meekness in the world. So many bullies-so little meekness!
Kathy
--- End quote ---
I double your sentiment, Kathy. You and Douglas made my picture of Jesus brighter and better. I always believed that Jesus was the church and still do. I think just coming here brings me closer to Him and to our Heavenly Father. Just my thoughts.
A young Sister in Christ,
Pam
JeffH:
--- Quote ---It is a club of sorts, only you have it backwards. We are the waiters and busboys.
--- End quote ---
This is a good place. There are good people here and there's love flowing throughout.
This isn't Ray's website as some have suggested, it's God's website. It's about God, for God and of God. It's purpose is to glorify our Creator. It's for that express purpose that we even exist.
Dennis, you're right. There are waiters and busboys here. Most of the time.
What I'm talking about is the way we refer to the wandering souls, the lost church. It burns a hole in my heart, when I see it. We mock them and as it reads - especially to those visiting for the first time - they've been segregated by this forum. Assigned to some lower-class spiritual level, by souls that rightfully can go no further than to lay prostrate in front of God asking for forgiveness for our own sin. Those lost people are simply reacting to the circumstances that our Lord has created for HIS own purpose. Those people are subject to God in exactly the same way everyone here is.
This is not a club and this forum is not elite. Every single one of us are worms, yet through grace we've somehow been blessed with a better understanding of the deeper things of God. What credit is that to us? What have we ever done to deserve something that glorious? Just how grateful are we? Better yet - how prideful are we? He can take away just as easily as He gives.
We're also mirrors and sometimes what's reflected here smacks of the world, just like any church on the corner. That's ok, because it's in our nature, but to ignore it is to stagnate. We are imperfect, but becoming...
What we have here is a gift. If not for God's benevolence and Ray's blessed obedience, we would still be with the others worshipping in vain, oblivious to the Truth.
Are the things we post, glorifying God? Do they reflect the compassion that God shows us through grace? Grace - the most awesome concept mankind could ever hope to understand. Do we reflect that grace outside this forum? If we aren't reflecting it in the forum, then the answer to that seems plain.
--- Quote ---Everyone is born blind to the truth. You can take things you've learned here to almost any preacher (we never know if our words will change someone according to God's plan) and show them a simple truth and they will totally reject it.
--- End quote ---
Why are "we" so focused on what's going on in the Christian pulpits around the world? That's God's business. Everything on the bt.com website from the top down to the LOF series could be removed and it wouldn't change a single thing. John Hagee, James Kennedy, Jimmy Swaggart, Jack Van Impe and even Billy Graham simply cannot and will not be changed by the blessing God has given to us in the Truth that overflows here. There's no point in talking to those people because they can't hear - it's impossible for them to hear the message here and it's fruitless to badger them. Especially because that's how God wants it.
--- Quote ---It is a minor miracle that we see the truth[ (God simply removes the scales from our eyes), but it's a bigger miracle when the church is presented with the truth in a simple, obvious way, and they cannot see it. I think I know what you are getting at Jeff: Many of these men are decent, caring individuals and do not deserve our scorn. You try and show them the simple truth and you will experience their scorn. Same with your friends and family:
--- End quote ---
Those men are not decent, caring individuals. Neither am I. Those men are passing through time, exactly as God desires them to, doing what God has given them to do. I don't care what those people believe, it's not my job to know that. All I care about is the Truth.
I've been doing this a long time. I know the scorn and I cherish every bit of it. It means that God is working in me.
Ray has graciously imparted knowledge to us. What does knowledge bear, if not love?
1 Corinthians 13 (Darby)
1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
2 And if I have prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 And if I shall dole out all my goods in food, and if I deliver up my body that I may be burned, but have not love, I profit nothing.
4 Love has long patience, is kind; love is not emulous [of others]; love is not insolent and rash, is not puffed up,
5 does not behave in an unseemly manner, does not seek what is its own, is not quickly provoked, does not impute evil,
6 does not rejoice at iniquity but rejoices with the truth,
7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails; but whether prophecies, they shall be done away; or tongues, they shall cease; or knowledge, it shall be done away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part:
10 but when that which is perfect has come, that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I reasoned as a child; when I became a man, I had done with what belonged to the child.
12 For we see now through a dim window obscurely, but then face to face; now I know partially, but then I shall know according as I also have been known.
13 And now abide faith, hope, love; these three things; and the greater of these [is] love.
My only reason for saying these things is because that's what's on my heart.
Jeff
P.S. to Marques
--- Quote ---Yes, they are teaching lies even if they believe them. A lie is still a lie. Whether the Lord opens ones eyes to the truth or not, He does not 'make' anyone sin or believe these heretical fables.
--- End quote ---
Marques,
Why is lying wrong? The reason we're commanded not to lie, is because it represents deceit and deceit requires premeditation - even if it's only for a second. Once the thought enters your mind, the deceit is on your heart. Right there, whether you carry through with the physical act or not, you're condemned. How many times throughout a day, does a deceitful thought enter your mind that you never act on? Regardless, it's sin. I believe that the majority of people in church , including their leaders are intentionally deceived and they preach and learn the only thing they know. God is responsible for creating Satan in order to deceive people.
Satan doesn't know our thoughts, but he can certainly place them there. You and I aren't exempt.
There are the Jim Baker's, Benny Hinn's and Joyce Myers' out there, but they would be crooks whether they were in the ministry or not. And frankly, somewhere inside us we have the potential to be just like them.
Lying does not equal lack of knowledge.
If your wife asks you if she looks pretty in that lime green, pink and orange dress and you know it's hideous, is it a sin to say "Honey, you look beautiful in everything"?
The sin in lying is to profit from deceit. Would you lie to a psychopath on the verge of killing your son, if you knew it would save his life? I wouldn't think twice.
Thank you God for your abundant grace and mercy.
Dave in Tenn:
It's the cornerstone of BT and Ray's approach to teaching the Gospel to expose those who contradict and teach right doctrine. It's a solid scriptural approach. It doesn't matter whether the ones teaching what contradicts are willfully lying or not. It is the teachings themselves that stand in contradiction to the Truth.
Sometimes more than others, the person him/herself embodies contradiction to right Doctrine, and Ray is on strong scriptural gound to call them out by name. I don't know whether Hagee or Kennedy ever read these letters, but I know that people steeped in thier teaching have. It takes just a little wisdom to see that is the audience Ray is trying to reach, not these preachers (and others like them) themselves.
The mature here, and certainly Ray, understand that we are no better than anybody. The less mature need the reminders that you, Kat and Dennis have provided. There but for the Grace of God go us. There by the will of God go them.
What Ray does well, we may do poorly at times. God help us.
firefly77:
This is one of the most interesting discussions I have read so far. I just want to thank all of you for your wisdom and insight. It is sort of strange; I was "called" through the Jimmy Swaggart ministry about 25 years ago. I have attended the garden variety of churches... Free Methodist, Assembly of God, Foursquare, Non-denominational, Lutheran, Catholic, watched TBN and on and on. It's strange or maybe not, but I never felt at "home" in any church or considered myself a part of them. I always thought I was different/my walk with God was different somehow; I was never able to play "church" like everybody else seemed to do and still like myself.
Today I attended a small church in Spokane who in all actuality believes that Jesus will save all. Except for this particular believe and that "tithing" is unscriptural as well, everything else reminded me of a regular church service. I was miserable and could not wait to drive back home and come to the BT forum here. I so very much enjoy being part of a body of believers here. All of you seem to experience the same struggles I have in my walk with God, the same questions, sometimes doubts, the struggle to die to self daily, and that this journey is not a cake walk, but it is difficult. Getting saved is hard; it's the hardest thing I ever had/have to do, just like Ray said. I am so thrilled that I have finally joined this forum; I was "lurking" around in the background for a long time. I just thank God that He brought me here 4 years ago after I asked Him to really show me the Truth.
Grace and Peace to you,
Angie
WhoAmI:
Anyone have a good John Hagee joke? :D
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