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Author Topic: Opinions welcomed!  (Read 5792 times)

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Linny

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Opinions welcomed!
« on: September 27, 2008, 09:22:32 PM »

Hey guys,
I wasn't sure where to ask this so I came to this board.

My hubbie and I were having a discussion yesterday and I would love to hear your thoughts.

I said that I didn't think that God would open the eyes of evil people to know the truth we have learned here at BT about Jesus being the Saviour of all and there not being a hell, etc. It seemed to me that only the called AND chosen would be given this eye opening revelation from God.
My husband thought that there were in fact preachers who KNEW that they were preaching lies and distortions. He gave great examples of why he believed this to be true. Basically that there were evil people who knew the truth but used the lies for profit instead.

Is there any scripture that you know of to answer this question?

I hope this isn't a silly question!? ::)

Lin
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KristaD

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Re: Opinions welcomed!
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2008, 09:31:15 PM »

You mean does God show the truth to people but not change them? And instead allow them to be evil and willfully deceive?
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frecklegirl417

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Re: Opinions welcomed!
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2008, 12:41:10 AM »

Lin,

      I am sorry but I really do not know of  a scripture that can help you, but IMO we were showed the truth kicking and screaming all the way because we were looking for it. Yes, probably there were some preachers, ministers who knew the truth and distorted for their gain but I do not think they really knew the absolute truth. If they did, I do not think they would use it for their own gain and if they did, then our Father above will deal with them in his own way.
     Your question was a good one and I wish I could have had an answer far  better then this one. I have learned so much it is hard for me to recall things sometimes and again sorry for not giving the answer you needed.

                                                       With God's Love and Understanding,
                                                               Pam
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Kat

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Re: Opinions welcomed!
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2008, 12:45:46 AM »


Hi Linny,

My understand is that until you are chosen and your eyes opened, you are deceived and you can not know the truth.

2Th 2:10  and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
v. 11  And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,

Rev 12:9  So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

In this age the called are blind to the Truth, even if they read in plain English what is on BT they will not know/understand it as the Truth.  They can see it with their own eyes, but they do not believe it.  There is plenty of false man made doctrines that they have to override any point of Truth that they might be told or read, that is the "strong delusion."  When a person is steeped in false doctrines - "strong delusion" all the Truth that they make come across will not change their heart of stone, only the Holy Spirit can.

Eze 36:26  I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Douglas Wayne Thomas

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Re: Opinions welcomed!
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2008, 06:36:23 AM »

      Linny – I do not know if these scriptures answer your question directly.

      "If you abide in My Word, hold fast to My teachings and live in accordance with them, you are truly My disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free" John 8:31,32

     There are still many false disciples pretending to preach the truth.

     "Come out from among them, and separate, sever yourselves from them, touch not any unclean things" (2 Cor. 6:17)

     This, too me, is what many people are doing on this forum, separating themselves from churches that do not preach the truth.

     "Do not submit again to a yoke of slavery, which you once put off" (Gal. 5:1)

     Do not be a slave to false teachings or to the teachers themselves.

     "No-one who put his hand to the plow and looks back to the things behind, is fit for the Kingdom of God" (Luke 9:62)[/i]

     This, to me, is why I can not go back to any mainstream Christian churches, once I have started down this road knowing the truth, I can never look back and long for the "bad old days".

    "How can you live in sin any longer?" (Rom. 6:2)

     If one really knows the truth can they keep sinning and still live with themselves?

     Unfortunately the answer is yes they can. Do some preachers, pastors, clergy know the truth and still repeat the same old lies? Yes because many of them are unwilling to give up the lifestyle that they have grown accustomed too.

    Can you imagine any of the religious leaders of the Mega churches telling their congregations that they should stop tithing because it is unscriptural? Hell will sooner freeze over, and since there is no Hell, which they will also not tell their congregations about, the answer is a resounding NO!

I hope this helps,

Seeking to do God's will always,

Douglas

« Last Edit: September 28, 2008, 06:39:26 AM by Douglas Wayne Thomas »
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Opinions welcomed!
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2008, 10:50:20 AM »

I think Krista and Pam have nailed it. 

It wouldn't surprise me if there are some very few who understand the doctrines, yet continue to explicitly or implicity teach error for any number of selfish or self-deluding reasons.  But nobody who has come to believe the Truth is doing that.  Nobody.  The Truth calls us out of Babylon and anybody believing the Truth is surely not serving as a pastor or teacher.

Let me put it this way.  I believe in the reconciliation of all, for example.  But even believing that, I could get hired by some foolish church to preach what they wanted to hear, and I could do it.  But that doesn't put me in the company of those who have and hold to the Truth.  I might have 'a truth', but I would by no means have THE truth.

The truth is not only in Doctrines but in our hearts.  The Truth changes us.  If it isn't changing us, it's not in us.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2008, 11:14:33 AM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

frecklegirl417

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Re: Opinions welcomed!
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2008, 11:34:55 AM »

I think Krista and Pam have nailed it. 

It wouldn't surprise me if there are some very few who understand the doctrines, yet continue to explicitly or implicity teach error for any number of selfish or self-deluding reasons.  But nobody who has come to believe the Truth is doing that.  Nobody.  The Truth calls us out of Babylon and anybody believing the Truth is surely not serving as a pastor or teacher.

Let me put it this way.  I believe in the reconciliation of all, for example.  But even believing that, I could get hired by some foolish church to preach what they wanted to hear, and I could do it.  But that doesn't put me in the company of those who have and hold to the Truth.  I might have 'a truth', but I would by no means have THE truth.

The truth is not only in Doctrines but in our hearts.  The Truth changes us.  If it isn't changing us, it's not in us.


I have only one word to say to you Dave,    AMEN! 
You nailed right on the head. You explained it better then I could. Thanks for that.
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Linny

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Re: Opinions welcomed!
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2008, 02:58:04 PM »

Thank you everybody!

Krista, yes, basically that is what I am asking.

Pam, Thanks! You seem to agree with me.

Yes, Kat! Thank you for those scriptures. That is exactly was I was trying to convey without knowing where to find it.

Douglas, Thanks for your response. You seem to side more with my husband?  He just really sees evil in people and thinks they do it purposely for their own gain while knowing the truth. I think he is right in that SOME of them know they are twisting the scriptures but I just don't think they know THE TRUTH as we know it.

Dave,
It wouldn't surprise me if there are some very few who understand the doctrines, yet continue to explicitly or implicitly teach error for any number of selfish or self-deluding reasons.  But nobody who has come to believe the Truth is doing that.  Nobody.  The Truth calls us out of Babylon and anybody believing the Truth is surely not serving as a pastor or teacher.

YES! This is how I feel about it too.

Thanks again for all of your responses and thoughts!

Bless you! Lin
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David

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Re: Opinions welcomed!
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2008, 04:59:57 PM »

God does indeed reveal the truth to evil people. He chose Saul on the road to Damascus, and revealed more truth to Paul than most of us will ever know in this lifetime. Paul called himself chief of sinners. There's no reason to believe that God has not, is not and will not reveal truths to evil people, choose them out of the world and convert them as He did with Paul.
And of course lets not overlook the fact that Satan himself knew many of the truths of God. He knew scripture and quoted it to Christ. And yet he was a murderer and a liar from the beginning, and the father of it.
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Linny

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Re: Opinions welcomed!
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2008, 11:33:01 PM »

David,
I don't count Satan when I am speaking about people. He is a completely different case.

As far as revealing the truth to evil people. No one is denying that He does that.
I was one of those! :-\ Not that evil but you get my point.  :-[

But we aren't talking about conversion. We are talking about a lack of conversion once shown the truth. It seems that most so far here believe that once shown the truth you can't help but be converted as that is the purpose of revealing truth.

My husband came in today and said he'd been thinking about what we'd been talking about and changed his mind to be in agreement with me. Said he decided that his way would mean that one would have to have free will. Being shown the truth and choosing to do evil would mean you had free will to defy God and His purpose. I hope I am explaining it okay. He explained it better than I.  ::)

Blessings, Lin
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