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Romans 5

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galatians22067:
Hi Can anyone help me with Romans 5:12-21.


I see what Ray is teaching about Adama carnal sinful nature long before his transgression but now Romans 5:12-21 really confuses me.


Rom 5:12  Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Rom 5:13  (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Rom 5:14  Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Rom 5:15  But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Rom 5:16  And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

Rom 5:17  For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Rom 5:18  Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Rom 5:19  For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Rom 5:20  Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Rom 5:21  That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Any help is greatly appreciated,

Matt

Kat:

Hi Matt,

I found this email concerning chapter 5, hope it helps.

http://bible-truths.com/email5.htm ---------

The doctrine taught is that Adam and Eve were PERFECT (after all, could God create something that was NOT perfect? Were they not created in God's OWN IMAGE)?

Well, they were "perfect" in the same way that Satan (a liar and a murderer from the very beginning) was perfect -- PERFECT FOR THE PURPOSE FOR WHICH GOD CREATED THEM.

Adam and Eve ALREADY had lust and disobedience in their hearts BEFORE the serpent approached them. Eve LUSTED BEFORE she ever actually ate of the fruit. Small technicality for our Christian friends.

Now then let's read Rom. 5:12 together: 

"Wherefore, as by one man [Adam] sin entered into the world, and death by sin: and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned."

Now then, WHERE does that verse say that Adam's "sin was passed on to all in the world?"  Was "sin" passed on? NO! "DEATH" was passed on.

Are we condemned because of "ADAM'S SIN?"   NO! "...for that ALL have sinned."  All have sinned their OWN individual sins, they are not condemned because of Adam's sin, but they did receive "death" from Adam in that "mortality" WAS passed on to the whole human race, because Adam did NOT partake of the "TREE OF LIFE," but rather sinned which brought the penalty God promised of "death."

A better translation helps our understanding: 

"Therefore, even as through one man sin entered into the world, and through sin death, and thus death passed through into all mankind on which all sinned..." (Concordant Literal New Testament).

Rom. 5:19 "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners..."

They were made sinners by VIRTUE OF THE FACT THAT THEY RECEIVED ADAM'S MORTALITY [DEATH] NOT HIS SIN. We sin because we are mortal [dying]. We have NO SPIRITUAL STRENGTH to combat our carnal, sinning, DYING, FLESH. Hence all sin because THEY ARE MORTAL. Adam sinned because HE WAS MORTAL. "It is appointed unto ALL men once to die"

But there are TWO DEATHS -- spiritual and physical. Jesus Christ said: "Let the DEAD bury the DEAD."  Two kinds of "dead" in ONE VERSE. The SPIRITUALLY DEAD, who bury the PHYSICALLY DEAD!

Hope that helps your understanding a little better. One more point: Any human being from any generation in the history of the human race, if put in the garden under the same conditions as Adam, would have ALSO SINNED THE SAME WAY. Adam sinned not because he could have chosen NOT TO SIN, but because he was made too spiritually weak to avoid or conquer sin. God MADE Adam subject to VANITY and CORRUPTION (and "not willingly"). See Romans 8:18-23).

God be with you,

Ray

Heidi:
Thank you Kat for replying to this post, it gave me clarity as well.

I love this forum and being part of it.  I learn something new every day by the grace of God.  I can honestly say that I have become an forum-addict and if I miss out just one day it feels like I am incomplete or something.  It is a gift of God to be part of this family and all good gifts come from above.

Love
Heidi

aqrinc:
Heidi,

From a fellow forum prowler, you are so right on. The questions asked and many answers given
are priceless in getting a wider and sometimes deeper understanding of how God Works in us and
how different lessons are learned from the same Scripture all the time. This is my place of refuge
in the physical world; it is also where i get Spiritual Food.

Romans 12:3:
For I say, through the grace given to me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God has dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Geo.

Heidi:

--- Quote from: aqr on October 01, 2008, 10:42:27 PM ---The questions asked and many answers given are priceless in getting a wider and sometimes deeper understanding of how God Works in us and how different lessons are learned from the same Scripture all the time. This is my place of refuge in the physical world; it is also where i get Spiritual Food.

--- End quote ---

Arc....I ditto the above.  Once cannot help but to also start getting familiar with the scriptures because of the repetitiveness it is being fed to us.  It is awesome!!!!

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