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Author Topic: Where Did Christ Ascend?  (Read 9176 times)

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Origen II

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Where Did Christ Ascend?
« on: May 23, 2006, 01:13:04 AM »

I was reading Mikes paper, "What is Heaven?" and it was very good, but I am left confused.

Where did Christ go after the 40 days after His resurrection, then? It says in Luke that He ascended back from whence He came, so if Heaven isn't a place...then where did He go?
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eutychus

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Where Did Christ Ascend?
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2006, 08:45:32 AM »

greetings,

that word ascend come from:

Ana None
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
an-ah'      Preposition
 
 Definition
into the midst, in the midst, amidst, among, between
 


heaven is a diminsion right along side this one, the spiritaul realm.

hopefully you are there:


Eph 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:


Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],


Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:


i dont think there is up and down and sideways, but this is a hard thing to understand in the physical realm we are bound to.


the invisable things on a molecular level are not subject to the same physical laws we are.

when  scientist look in to this/ particals and this level it looks like chaos to
them,but we know its not.


chech out hour two on this site:


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html




any help?
love
chuck
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chrissiela

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Where Did Christ Ascend?
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2006, 11:09:38 AM »

Christ returned to the Father, where He was in the beginning. He CAME OUT FROM the Father and then RETURNED TO the Father and the glory that he had with Him in the beginning.  HE DESCENDED first and then He ascended.

    Joh 16:27  For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that
I came out from God.

Joh 17:8  For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

1Co 14:36  What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?[/list:u]
The Word of God come UNTO us FROM God.

    Joh 3:13  And no man hath
ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Joh 20:17  Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Eph 4:8  Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

Eph 4:9  (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Eph 4:10  He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Rev 8:4  And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.[/list:u]

Part of the 'second woe' in the revelation of Jesus Christ is the two witnesses being killed and left dead and unburied in the middle of the street... and then...

    Rev 11:12  And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And
they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.[/list:u]

ascending and descending aren't necessarily moving from one physical location to another in an 'up or down' motion... but being IN a certain 'place' relative to spiritual matters. We can walk in the flesh or we can walk in the spirit.

One can think on 'heavenly' things and those things that are TRUE, HONEST, JUST, PURE, LOVELY, OF GOOD REPORT, VIRTUOUS and PRAISEWORTHY. OR they can  think on things that are 'earthly' and fulfill the desire of the flesh.

As Chuck said we can move from one 'realm' to another without ever leaving this earth. We can look on things that can be SEEN (that are earthly and carnal and temporal) walking in the flesh or we can look on those things that are UNSEEN and that are of God in heaven (heavenly)and 'eternal'... walking in the spirit and not the flesh.... being seated WITH CHRIST in the heavens, even now/here.

Blessings,
Chrissie
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eutychus

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Where Did Christ Ascend?
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2006, 11:22:00 AM »

amen:

 its awsome when we get those spiritual eyes:

Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.


Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.


1Cr 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known


Phl 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things.



Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.


interesting word walk:

Pateo 5:940,804
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
pat-eh'-o      Verb  
 
 Definition
to tread
to trample, crush with the feet
 
hmmmmmm

from:

pah'-yo      
 
 Definition
to strike, smite
to sting (to strike or wound with a sting)
 

and:

per'-an      Adverb  
 
 Definition
beyond, on the other side  



2Cr 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
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chrissiela

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Where Did Christ Ascend?
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2006, 11:30:53 AM »

talking about FEET!!  :lol:  :lol:

    Nah 1:3  The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm,
and the clouds are the dust of his FEET.


Rom 10:15  And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the FEET of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Eph 6:15  And your FEET shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

Mat 10:14  And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your FEET.[/list:u]

The earth is His FOOT STOOL and He continued to WALK in it through His body.

Blessings,
Chrissie
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eutychus

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Where Did Christ Ascend?
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2006, 11:32:23 AM »

Quote from: chrissiela
talking about FEET!!  :lol:  :lol:

    Nah 1:3  The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm,
and the clouds are the dust of his FEET.


Rom 10:15  And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the FEET of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Eph 6:15  And your FEET shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

Mat 10:14  And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your FEET.[/list:u]

The earth is His FOOT STOOL and He continued to WALK in it through His body.

Blessings,
Chrissie



hey we get the word perpetual from greek word walk,

God never sleeps ;-]

peace
chuck
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Daniel

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Where Did Christ Ascend?
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2006, 03:42:29 PM »

Want to get dizzy? :lol:  These are excellent asccending and descending verses, look carefully at how Paul means them when he explains them in ( That is, to) below. Enough to make you think hard  :lol:

Romans 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ASCEND into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ DOWN FROM ABOVE}

Romans 10:7 Or, Who shall DESCEND[/u] "INTO" the DEEP? (that is , to BRING UP Christ AGAIN "FROM" the DEAD.) [/u]

John 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ASCEND UP[/u] where he was BEFORE?

Ephes 4:9-10 NOW that "HE" ASCENDED, what is it BUT that HE also "DESCENDED" FIRST "INTO" the LOWER PARTS of THE EARTH? He that DESCENDETH (to the "lower parts" of the EARTH) is the same also that ASCENDED UP far above all heavens, that HE might FILL all things.)

FROM HERE (EARTH) He said, "Touch me NOT I have not YET ASCENDED TO THE FATHER

Considering the "Above", to descend from heaven

1Thes 4:16 For the Lord himself shall DESCEND "from heaven" with a shout, with the voice[/u] of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the DEAD IN CHRIST shall RISE FIRST:

Romans 10:7 Or, Who shall DESCEND[/u] "INTO" the DEEP? (that is , to BRING UP Christ AGAIN "FROM" the DEAD.) [/u]

1Cr 15:15,16, 29, 32 are great companion verses and between


Daniel
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Daniel

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Where Did Christ Ascend?
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2006, 04:37:11 PM »

Notice the "wording here"??? Bring UP Christ AGAIN FROM THE DEAD? Ever look at something at one level and get a whole other level that brain storms you? :lol:


Rev 20:5 But THE REST of THE DEAD lived not AGAIN UNTIL "the thousand years" were FINISHED. This is the first resurrection.

Romans 10:7 Or, Who shall DESCEND[/u] "INTO" the DEEP? (that is , to BRING UP Christ "AGAIN" "FROM" the DEAD.) [/u]

I was wondering on the word "finished" or what the "thousand years". these are something I need study more of. You can see the words connect in the use of them, its pretty exciting when that happens. As a freind of mine says, "it don't even matter if its still on a slight "dimmer" and not yet in "full blown revelation" :lol:  You just look at it expectantly, waiting on Him to reveal it to you.

Daniel
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rocky

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Where Did Christ Ascend?
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2006, 04:45:32 PM »

Quote from: Daniel


Rev 20:5 But THE REST of THE DEAD lived not AGAIN UNTIL "the thousand years" were FINISHED. This is the first resurrection.

Daniel



This verse confuses me, it makes it sound as the first resurrection is not until after the 1000 years, and

the rest of the dead who then will live= the first resurrection.  

Daniel, I'm probably missing entirely you point, sorry.  Wish I could shed the scales off my eyes faster and at my own will.
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chrissiela

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Where Did Christ Ascend?
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2006, 05:21:06 PM »

    1Pe 1:3  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy
hath begotten us AGAIN unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,[/list:u]
No help here... those have me stumped, too.  :lol:

Still waiting on the revelation of how those 'fit'.  :shock:

I know it's something special (isn't it always) but FORCING IT never works...  I know. :roll:

I have not looked at them in awhile though.... so I will and if I come up with any ideas I'll run them past everybody. Or maybe somebody has something already? I don't think I have ever seen anything written about this specifically. If so, I missed it.  :roll:

Chrissie
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chrissiela

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Where Did Christ Ascend?
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2006, 06:50:17 PM »

I went back and looked up all of those verses trying to restudy this and I could find no word from which 'again' was translated and not all translations have the word "again" in them.  :shock:  Big surprise, right??  :lol:  :lol:

Could be that the word was just 'added' in tranlsation for some reason??

But then I don't have anything but e-sword to go by... certainly not the original manuscripts or even anything close.... not that I would know what to DO with them if I had them (as far as being able to READ them).  :roll:

Will keep looking, but not finding much.  :o

Chrissie
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lilitalienboi16

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Where Did Christ Ascend?
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2006, 07:28:50 PM »

Quote from: rocky
Quote from: Daniel


Rev 20:5 But THE REST of THE DEAD lived not AGAIN UNTIL "the thousand years" were FINISHED. This is the first resurrection.

Daniel



This verse confuses me, it makes it sound as the first resurrection is not until after the 1000 years, and

the rest of the dead who then will live= the first resurrection.  

Daniel, I'm probably missing entirely you point, sorry.  Wish I could shed the scales off my eyes faster and at my own will.


Perhaps i can try my shot at this.

What it is saying i believe is like this, in English lamence terms.

BUT THE REST OF THE DEAD DIDN'T LIVE UNTIL THE AFTER THE THOUSAND YEAR REIGN, WHICH IS THE FIRST RESSURECTION[ The thousand year reign].

Does that make sence? I tried heh.

God bless,

Alex
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Daniel

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Where Did Christ Ascend?
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2006, 07:44:50 PM »

Alex this has been interesting, I'm looking into just that. I have tons of questions I never asked. Like why is it called a thousand years? Is a thousand years a thousand years or as Peter says it could be AS a DAY. But is that day a literal day? OR a spiritual day(!) which encompasses more in it to be understood? Whats "Finished" How does Paul use the word "reign" what is it to reign with Him? Things like that, taking more then a casual glance but a meditative one on these things.

I'm trying to see Jesus Christ, the the thousand years and what is finished in the thousand years (from my above post) and how Paul mentions the word "to reign" and what that means. We know its a revelation of Jesus Christ we are waiting for. Heres some verses too. He came ONCE to bear sin, once and FOR ALL, He comes a SECOND TIME unto those who look for Him, but we LOOK AT what is NOT seen NOT AT what is seen which is exactly WHY the world cannot receive Him "because it SEETH Him NOT".

Within one of the "thousand years" which can be seen  is as "a day" something "is finished". A thousand years are "finished" On the Cross Jesus says


Jon 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished[/u]: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

In relation to Jesus Christ He who was came ONCE for one purpose to bear our sins

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday[/u], and to day, and for ever.

Yet in the Cross Jesus says this too

Luke 23:43 To day shalt thou be with me[/u] in paradise. Heb 3:7, 4:7,& 3:13 while it is called To day[/u]... The day is Called To day for a reason, and how does this relate to anything even yesterday? Or a thousand years? Reign with Hm[/u]

Psalm 90:40 For a thousand years[/b] in thy sight are but as yesterday WHEN it is PAST, AND as a WATCH in the NIGHT.

He who WAS (yesterday), IS (To day) and Will be

Not seeing this as a dated thing but a spiritual truth dawning in us, something IS yesterday WHEN it IS PAST and also compared to a WATCH (Paul says "watch") and that IN THE NIGHT . In Genesis the DARKNESS is CALLED NIGHT

Okay look here, See it??

1 John 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, WHICH THING IS TRUE IN HIM and IN YOU: THE DARNESS "IS PAST"[/u], and the true light NOW SHINETH.[/b]

A Spiritual DAY dawning IN YOU, the darkness PAST, something occurred in them they were aware of, found in the word "darkness" because it is NOW PAST (keep reading John) because we were "SOMETIMES" in darkness but something happened they became light in the Lord. In the city there is NO NIGHT "There" as there is No darkness IN HIM.

I need to sit with this, theres connections indeed and yet spiritually apprehended in ourselves

Daniel
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chrissiela

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Where Did Christ Ascend?
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2006, 10:02:28 PM »

Quote from: Daniel
Alex this has been interesting, I'm looking into just that. I have tons of questions I never asked. Like why is it called a thousand years? Is a thousand years a thousand years or as Peter says it could be AS a DAY. But is that day a literal day? OR a spiritual day(!) which encompasses more in it to be understood? Whats "Finished" How does Paul use the word "reign" what is it to reign with Him? Things like that, taking more then a casual glance but a meditative one on these things.

I'm trying to see Jesus Christ, the the thousand years and what is finished in the thousand years (from my above post) and how Paul mentions the word "to reign" and what that means. We know its a revelation of Jesus Christ we are waiting for. Heres some verses too. He came ONCE to bear sin, once and FOR ALL, He comes a SECOND TIME unto those who look for Him, but we LOOK AT what is NOT seen NOT AT what is seen which is exactly WHY the world cannot receive Him "because it SEETH Him NOT".

Within one of the "thousand years" which can be seen  is as "a day" something "is finished". A thousand years are "finished" On the Cross Jesus says


Jon 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished[/u]: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

In relation to Jesus Christ He who was came ONCE for one purpose to bear our sins

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday[/u], and to day, and for ever.

Yet in the Cross Jesus says this too

Luke 23:43 To day shalt thou be with me[/u] in paradise. Heb 3:7, 4:7,& 3:13 while it is called To day[/u]... The day is Called To day for a reason, and how does this relate to anything even yesterday? Or a thousand years? Reign with Hm[/u]

Psalm 90:40 For a thousand years[/b] in thy sight are but as yesterday WHEN it is PAST, AND as a WATCH in the NIGHT.

He who WAS (yesterday), IS (To day) and Will be

Not seeing this as a dated thing but a spiritual truth dawning in us, something IS yesterday WHEN it IS PAST and also compared to a WATCH (Paul says "watch") and that IN THE NIGHT . In Genesis the DARKNESS is CALLED NIGHT

Okay look here, See it??

1 John 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, WHICH THING IS TRUE IN HIM and IN YOU: THE DARNESS "IS PAST"[/u], and the true light NOW SHINETH.[/b]

A Spiritual DAY dawning IN YOU, the darkness PAST, something occurred in them they were aware of, found in the word "darkness" because it is NOW PAST (keep reading John) because we were "SOMETIMES" in darkness but something happened they became light in the Lord. In the city there is NO NIGHT "There" as there is No darkness IN HIM.

I need to sit with this, theres connections indeed and yet spiritually apprehended in ourselves

Daniel


Good thoughts there, Daniel.

Let me pick out just one (though the others are tied to it).

You said:

Quote
Luke 23:43 To day shalt thou be with me[/u] in paradise. Heb 3:7, 4:7,& 3:13 while it is called To day[/u]... The day is Called To day for a reason, and how does this relate to anything even yesterday? Or a thousand years? Reign with Hm[/u]


I know that Ray says that the coma is in the wrong place and that it really should be: "Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise."

I have to say that on this I do disagree and not because I think that the thief on the cross went to paradise 'that day' when he died... but because I believe that the Lord was telling him a SPIRITUAL TRUTH.

    Joh 6:63  It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.[/list:u]

I think it has nothing to do with the coma. Or, at least for me, the coma does not need to be moved to capture the message of truth that we being spoken.

    Luk 23:43  And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee,
To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.[/list:u]

The question is.... WHEN IS "TO DAY"?  :shock:

And I think you touched on that... I think you see these things similar to the way that I do. At least the way that you piece and tie them together is similar to the way that I do. So when is "today"?

    Heb 3:15  While it is said,
To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.[/list:u]

and here:

    Heb 4:3  For
we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Heb 4:4  For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

Heb 4:5  And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Heb 4:6  Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

Heb 4:7  Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Heb 4:8  For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.[/list:u]

You said:

Quote
He who WAS (yesterday), IS (To day) and Will be


I see that when Christ IS come it is TODAY in the life of the one who HEARS and hardens not their heart. Then the darkness has passed and has become yesterday, for the true light NOW shineth (as you said).

    1Jo 2:8  Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because
the darkness is past (yesterday), and the true light now (today) shineth.

1Jo 2:9  He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

1Jo 2:10  He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.[/list:u]

So not disagreeing with the overall teaching, just that idea that the comma had to be move to 'get there'.  :wink:

Christ was speaking a spiritual truth when he told the thief "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise", not a physical one. We know this to be true because ALL of His words were SPIRIT AND TRUTH.

So I'll just offer that up to anyone who might think that 'you can't get there from here' WITHOUT moving the comma. I know that some - no one here, though - have a problem with the whole 'the coma is in the wrong place' argument. From where I sit, you need not move the coma. You just need to know what is meant by "Today" and understand that it was a SPIRITUAL TRUTH that was being spoken... and look BEYOND the letter.  :wink:

Blessings,
Chrissie
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Steve Crook

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Where Did Christ Ascend?
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2006, 12:25:40 AM »

Well, the original language doesn't have a comma, AT ALL. So, it's not about the comma at all. I know I've seen Ray mention that before, so movement of the comma is not important.

Was Christ DEAD? If he was dead, then how pray tell was the thief in paradise while Christ was dead? Knowing Christ after the flesh wouldn't have been...being with him in paradise to day...?

I am truly asking for any answers anyone has.

I see yester day, to day, and another day.

Was, IS, Will be.
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Daniel

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Where Did Christ Ascend?
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2006, 03:20:31 AM »

Chrissie you wrote,

Quote
I know that Ray says that the coma is in the wrong place and that it really should be: "Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise."

I have to say that on this I do disagree and not because I think that the thief on the cross went to paradise 'that day' when he died... but because I believe that the Lord was telling him a SPIRITUAL TRUTH.


Exactly how I'm seeing this Chrissie. Not a "die thing" and "go to paradise". Who was "caught up to paradise" and never had to "physically" die to do it, couldn't even tell if it was "in the body" or "out of the body" to do it. I see the Lord declaring "the day" as in "To day" not in a literal 12- 24 hour day but declaring "THE" works finished. Paul expounded on this, "a certain day" while it is "called To day". I know Paul wasn't giving them a literal 24 hours here.


Chrissie you added

Quote
I think you see these things similar to the way that I do. At least the way that you piece and tie them together is similar to the way that I do. So when is "today"?


Heb 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.


and here:


Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.



Excellent verses His rest is paradise, well it is to me :lol:

What are we to HEAR? Who HEARS IT? WHEN?

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall HEAR the voice of the Son of God: and THEY that HEAR shall LIVE.[/u]

To me thats the "To Day"  if WE HEAR HIS VOICE. WE who WERE DEAD in our SINS after a SPIRITUAL TRUTH as His words are SPIRIT and LIFE. Our LIFE is HID in Christ and we LIVE by His POWER and HIS LIFE (though DEATH) yet manifested IN our MORTAL BODY

Getting back to the verses concerning "the rest"

Notice where he swares... Heb 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)  Now I know the law worketh wrath Romans 4:15 and Gal 3:12 the law is "not of faith"...Without faith it is impossible to "please Him"

Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished[/u] from the foundation of the world.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting LIFE[/b]: and he that believeth not the Son shall NOT SEE life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (could not "enter" because of unbelief)

Cant SEE LIFE, why? Isaiah 9:19 Through the wrath of the LORD of hosts is the land darkened, and the people shall be as the fuel of the fire: no man shall SPARE "his BROTHER. (not "resting here")

Theres Simply "No rest" Christ redeemed from the curse of the law. No rest right here (fear having the "torment" we find).

Notice the word "ASSURANCE" in the next few verses

Duet 28:66 And THY LIFE shall hang IN DOUBT before thee; and thou shalt FEAR (which hath torment) day and night, and shalt have NONE ASSURANCE FOR THY LIFE:

Heres the EFFECT of Christ in us, He who IS "Our Rest and our Peace"

Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and ASSURANCE for ever.[/u]

1Thes 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in WORD ONLY, but also IN POWER, and in the Holy Ghost, and in MUCH ASSURANCE; as ye know what "manner of men" we were among you for "your sake".


Chrissie wrote,

Quote
1Jo 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past (yesterday), and the true light now (today) shineth.

1Jo 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

1Jo 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.


Amen! The hating ones brother, the darkness (by wrath a land is "darkened") and HERE no man will SPARE HIS BROTHER. He hateth his brother. Like greivous (or sever wolves) they SPARE NOT "the Flock". As the Lord said the wrath abideth on them, they simply cannot SEE Life. He that hateth his brother (or loveth him not) is in that very darkness we came from. We were "sometimes in darkness" but now "light in the Lord". We were once "children of wrath" it says but when the love and mercy of God appeared he saved us. We got a great God!

Chrissie wrote

Quote
From where I sit, you need not move the coma. You just need to know what is meant by "Today" and understand that it was a SPIRITUAL TRUTH that was being spoken... and look BEYOND the letter.


Beautifully put Chrissie. I know I have caught myself getting caught up on something as small as a "comma", and I agree whats "To day" all about? Thats the question isn't it? :lol:

Chrissie wrote,

Quote
Christ was speaking a spiritual truth when he told the thief "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise", not a physical one. We know this to be true because ALL of His words were SPIRIT AND TRUTH.


Amen Chrissie I'm hearing you loud and clear. As I might have mentioned a bit earlier on, it took not a "physical death" to be caught up into pardise. What a TRIP huh? :lol:  TAKE ME LORD! I'm saying :lol:

Thank you for adjusting that for me, I might know how I see that verse but it might be assumed I mean something I don't. As that day being "To day" as being in that 24 hour period type day. OR seeing it as an He "died and went to paradise" thing. Not at all. Thank God Paul wrote what he wrote concerning paradise. It cuts through the thought of the physical body needing to die to "go there" (so to speak). It clears off comma (hysteria) right off the "things to deal with"  list. One verse carefully looked at can take away ever having to wrest over it the long and hard way :lol:  with those endless pages of historical accounts, dictionarys etc. :shock:

That would drive me crazy to go through such hoops :lol:


Daniel
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chrissiela

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Where Did Christ Ascend?
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2006, 09:36:17 AM »

Quote from: Steve Crook
Well, the original language doesn't have a comma, AT ALL. So, it's not about the comma at all. I know I've seen Ray mention that before, so movement of the comma is not important.

Was Christ DEAD? If he was dead, then how pray tell was the thief in paradise while Christ was dead? Knowing Christ after the flesh wouldn't have been...being with him in paradise to day...?

I am truly asking for any answers anyone has.

I see yester day, to day, and another day.

Was, IS, Will be.


Steve, do you have a problem with me? This is the second time that it seems to me that you are jumping to the WRONG conclusions about something that I have posted?

I know that there is no comma in the original manuscripts.  :wink:

However, there IS punctuation in the various english translations of the scriptures that we use and the placement of the comma IS something that Ray has addressed in order to clarify WHAT Christ said on the cross to the thief.

I was simply trying to demonstrate that the placement of the comma (when one is placed) does NOT matter because you DON'T even have to move it (or you can put it in either place) and you can still come to the SAME conclusion that Ray and Mike do.

The fact is that ON THE SURFACE moving the comma CAN appear to change the meaning or the emphasis of the statement being made. And the fact is that not everyone believes that Christ WAS dead and buried until His resurrection on the third day. I was not even addressing that.

I never said that Christ was not dead and I never claimed that there was punctuation in the original manuscript; I only addressed the punctuation that IS in the manuscripts that we use.... and, as you said, how it is NOT important.  

Blessings,
Chrissie
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Steve Crook

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Where Did Christ Ascend?
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2006, 11:03:49 AM »

No, no problem whatsoever with anyone, anywhere. How could you think I have a problem wth you with the comments I have made? I am asking an honest question. Seems as though when I ask questions, folks get kind of twitchy or something.

Not sure, but no problem with you.

Edited from: "No, no problem whatsoever with anyone, anywhere." and added rest of statement
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eutychus

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Where Did Christ Ascend?
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2006, 03:04:57 PM »

forums can be tricky, sometimes after i post, im thinking "hey"
that looks different on screen than when i was thinking it, etc.


 we are all brothers and sisters here and so if we keep that in mind as we get to know each others posting style all is well.

 so be blessed you are loved by God everybody :wink:

 love
chuckt
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