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Did Jesus have to learn what evil was to know good?
ScarletWren:
I wouldn't be so brash as to say that I have the correct doctrinal view on every issue so I wouldn't begin to address that issue, but they teach more than just doctrines. They do teach of God's love, albeit they may not understand it in its entirety but then do we? How can we? They teach us to love our enemies. Again, it may not be the exact way that Christ taught it, but it still is taught. That is what Satan is so good at, sowing tares in the wheat so there must be some wheat in there. Could you give me a list of EVERY doctine there is? Do you have one? Which doctrines do you have to understand the truth of completely to begin to teach or minister to a group of people? I don't assemble with orthodox churches, I am not really trying to defend them. But I could never say that nothing they teach is correct.
hillsbororiver:
Hi Scarlet,
Believe me I empathize with you, it is very difficult if not impossible to come up with anything they have right, it has virtually all been leavened with the dung of man.
Peace,
Joe
Falconn003:
--- Quote from: ScarletWren on October 11, 2008, 06:11:15 PM ---I wouldn't be so brash as to say that I have the correct doctrinal view on every issue so I wouldn't begin to address that issue, but they teach more than just doctrines. They do teach of God's love, albeit they may not understand it in its entirety but then do we? How can we? They teach us to love our enemies. Again, it may not be the exact way that Christ taught it, but it still is taught. That is what Satan is so good at, sowing tares in the wheat so there must be some wheat in there. Could you give me a list of EVERY doctine there is? Do you have one? Which doctrines do you have to understand the truth of completely to begin to teach or minister to a group of people? I don't assemble with orthodox churches, I am not really trying to defend them. But I could never say that nothing they teach is correct.
--- End quote ---
Brilliant !
mharrell08:
Hello Scarlet,
Here is an excerpt from Ray's Lake of Fire pt. 2 paper (http://bible-truths.com/lake2.html):
THEY SPEAK WITH FORKED TONGUE
Most all Christian theologians would claim to believe the first statement of Scriptural Truth that I present below, especially when I cite a Scripture verse with it, but they will then contradict and refuse to teach the second statement of Truth. Here are a few examples:
Do they believe the fire in I Cor.3:15 burns mans’ works, but not the man himself? Yes.
But do they teach that this same fire in Rev.20:15 also burns works, not the man? No.
Do they believe that God is the Creator of ALL? Yes.
But do they teach that God created EVIL as He says in (Isa. 45:7)? No.
Do they believe that God is absolutely and totally sovereign (Eph. 1:11)? Yes.
But do they teach that God exercises sovereignty over man’s supposed "free" will? No.
Do they believe that Jesus Christ IS the Saviour of the whole world (I Jn 4:14)? Yes.
But do they teach that Jesus Christ will SAVE the whole world? No.
Do they believe that presently Christ only has immortality (I Tim. 6:16)? Yes.
But do they teach the truth therefore that men’s souls are mortal and not immortal? No.
Do they believe that the original manuscripts of God’s Word were inerrant? Yes.
But do they teach us that the King James translation, which they say is "inerrant" has gone through THOUSANDS of error corrections since 1611? No.
Do they believe that the soul that sins shall DIE (Ezek. 18:4)? Yes.
But do they teach that souls of deceased sinners are actually DEAD? No.
Do they believe there are many cults today that need exposing? Yes.
But do they teach that Christendom, by its OWN definitions, is also a cult? No.
Do they believe that Sodom is "suffering the vengeance of eternal [aeonian] fire? Yes.
But do they teach that Sodom will be restored to their former estate (Ezek. 16:55)? No.
Do they believe in a future resurrection of dead people back to life (John 5:29)? Yes.
But do they teach that a resurrection is imperative for dead people to live again? No.
Do they believe the first half of I Cor. 15:22 that "For as in Adam ALL die?" Yes.
But do they teach the last half, "even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive?" No.
Do they believe that "...the end of the world [Gk: aion -- age]" ends in Mat. 24:3? Yes.
But do they teach that this same "aion -- age" in Matt. 25:41 & 46 will also end. No.
Do they believe that Jn 3:13 & Acts 2:34 are truthful Scripture (II Tim. 3:16)? Yes.
But do they teach this truth that "NO man," including David, has gone to heaven? No.
Do they believe ALL God purposed, spoke, and willed (Isa. 46:10-11), He will do? Yes.
But do they teach that God’s "will" to save all, I Tim. 2:4, etc., will be done? No.
Do they believe that Satan lied when he told Eve, "thou shalt not surely die?" Yes.
But do they teach the truth that sinners really do DIE at death as God has stated? No.
Do they believe that the Apocryphal books do not belong in the Bible? Yes.
But do they teach us that the 1611 so-called "inerrant" King James Bible contained fourteen such books, including "Tobit," "Judith," "The idol Bel and the Dragon"? No.
Do they believe that Christ is totally responsibility for our salvation? Yes.
But do they teach that "no man can" come to Christ of himself (John 6:44)? No.
Do they believe that Satan is the greatest sinner of all? Yes.
But do they teach Jn. 8:44 which states that Satan "sinned from the beginning?" No.
Do they believe Christ really died for the sins of the world? Yes.
But do they teach that Jesus Christ was dead when they placed Him in the tomb? No.
Do they believe the many Scriptures that liken death to "sleep?" Yes.
But do they teach that dead people are unconscious, "sleeping" till resurrection? No.
Do they believe that the last enemy to be destroyed [Gk: abolished] is death? Yes.
But do they teach that ALL death, including the second death, will be abolished? No.
Do they believe that all things are possible with God (Mark 10:27)? Yes.
But do they teach that it is possible for God to save nonbelievers after they die? No.
Do they believe that every tongue in heaven and earth will confess Jesus as LORD? Yes.
But do they teach that the Holy Spirit inspires this sincere voluntary act (I Cor. 12:3)? No.
Do they believe that good and evil are both in the same tree of knowledge? Yes
But do they teach that good and evil both come from the same root source? No.
Do they believe that God absolutely "knows all" (I John 3:20)? Yes.
But do they teach that God knows in advance ALL who will reject Christ? No.
Do they believe that God’s love will never fail ( I Cor. 13:8 )? Yes.
But do they teach that God’s love will never fail in saving the world He loves? No.
Do they believe the apostles spoke in foreign languages in Acts 2:4-11? Yes.
But do they teach that of the hundreds of thousands who claim to speak in tongues today, not one of them can speak in multiple languages which they did not already study? No.
Do they believe that the masses did not understand Christ’s parables (Mat. 13:13)? Yes.
But do they teach that Christ purposely didn’t want them to understand, (Vs. 14-17)? No.
Do they believe the Old Covenant contained the Ten Commandments (Deut.4:12)? Yes.
But do they teach a New Covenant which contains a much higher law (Heb. 8:8-9)? No.
Do they believe that God created all the spirits and messengers of heaven? Yes.
But do they teach that God also created Satan who was always His adversary? No.
Do they believe that loving our enemies means doing good and not evil to them? Yes.
But do they teach that God will never subject His enemies to eternal torture and evil? No.
There seems to be no end to the Scriptural contradictions of Christian beliefs. But we can learn from their mistakes. It is good for us that God makes us dig deep for the precious gems of His word. It really is like searching for hidden treasure. And I have never found a hidden treasure in God’s Word that has disappointed me. Each new discovery brings more appreciation for God and His plan of salvation for all.
Also, I would recommend listening to Ray's bible study entitled 'Despising the Word of God' (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8256.0.html) from Apr 2008.
--- Quote from: ScarletWren on October 11, 2008, 06:11:15 PM ---I wouldn't be so brash as to say that I have the correct doctrinal view on every issue so I wouldn't begin to address that issue, but they teach more than just doctrines. They do teach of God's love, albeit they may not understand it in its entirety but then do we? How can we? They teach us to love our enemies. Again, it may not be the exact way that Christ taught it, but it still is taught. That is what Satan is so good at, sowing tares in the wheat so there must be some wheat in there. Could you give me a list of EVERY doctine there is? Do you have one? Which doctrines do you have to understand the truth of completely to begin to teach or minister to a group of people? I don't assemble with orthodox churches, I am not really trying to defend them. But I could never say that nothing they teach is correct.
--- End quote ---
I wouldn't go so far to say that members here are 'brash' or high-minded regarding the church. The church does not teach of God's love because they then say in the same breath He will send most of humanity to burn in some fabled hell for trillions of years unending. That's not love.
And you stated about the church teaching to love our enemies but not the exact way Christ taught. Then if it is not how Christ taught it, who IS truth, then the way they teach is not the truth or in other words a lie.
God calls His people out of the church. So that leaves only the tares.
The only true doctrine is the doctrine that Christ taught [Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me....John7:16] All other doctrines are man-made, false doctrines. Remember, the Holy Spirit leads those into 'all truth' [John 16:13] not some truth mixed with lies.
I know you're not trying to defend them but maintain a humble, non-elitist attitude. I understand and respect that. But there is no grey area when it comes to the truth.
Hope this helps,
Marques
Dennis Vogel:
Scarlet has a point:
Php 1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
Dennis
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