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Author Topic: hello, new member here- and a modern day parable  (Read 10523 times)

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believerx

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hello, new member here- and a modern day parable
« on: October 04, 2008, 03:06:00 AM »

hi there,
i just joined, this forum. i really dont know what to say about myself. i've been reading the bible for 35 years and studying the scriptures from the original languages ( using wigram and other english friendly tools)for over 20 years, and have yet to meet anyone that i can say views them in the same way. i thought even a cultic person could at least find a few people to agree with them.  :o

anyway would like to be a positive addition if that is possible.
if not i will move on.

i wrote this parable a month ago and it got me either booted or ostracized from over 10 christian yahoo groups after some rather contentious exchanges.

people just got enraged at the implications presented. never even posted chapter 2 because of the controversy.

maybe someone here will get something of value from it.

peace

kevin

A Parable

Once upon a time there were some scribes of the house of Ameedous, that were given the task of copying  and translating 66 scrolls of their Master. But these scribes were evil and loved the approval of men, and they weren’t content with their Master’s generous wages.  So they devised a plan , treacherous and wicked in nature.  “ Come, let us discredit our Master by not faithfully copying  His scrolls. Then our Master will be ruined and we can have what is His before men and they will pay us better wages and love us!

So they searched the land , looking for something to help them carry out their plan.  They happened upon a merchant whose name was Saldenavit.  He listened as they related their story and told them he had the perfect device to help them succeed  without their Master ever knowing,  “ this is a magic pen that will corrupt and destroy the meaning of your Master’s words.”  THE SCRIBES WERE INCREDULOUS!
“How can that be? “ they asked . 
“When ever you use it the pen will do different thing to help you complete your desired results, not just a few but an even ten!”  Saldenavit exclaimed.
“Such as?” the scribe wondered aloud.
“Well, for starters-every  so often the pen will insert an additional word into the text to completely pervert the meaning.  This is it’s most valuable asset.” 
“ so what, we can do that ourselves,  this doesn’t sound as impressive as you claim,” they quipped.
“ah, but the pen has it’s own mind that will pick the most damaging place to insert  just one single word that will throw all of your masters servants into slavery , so that He will have no workers” Sadenavit asserted.  “everything else you get is just a bonus, here is a list of all of the pens wondrous features.”
He handed them the List:
1. Add words
2. omit words
3. change words from different copies
4. mistranslate words
5. Under-translate words
6.Translate a single word into many different words all throughout the scrolls.
7.Translate many different words into a single word  all throughout the scrolls.
8. Magically go through 3 language translations. ( This feature can only be guaranteed through the first 39 of the 66 scrolls of the most popular copy).
9. But, when you get to that 40th scroll, there will be an invisible division so the continuity of  the whole 66 scrolls, will be lost!

The scribes were puzzled, “ we see only 9 features here and you said 10?”
Saldenavit remarked apologetically,”  My bad , I meant only 9.”
So the scribes asked “ Ok, what are the damages?”
“A mere 10,000 talents.”
“10,000 TALENTS! That seems inordinately steep for just a pen!”
But old Sal was unfazed ” a talent for each one of your master’s words.  remember what you stand to gain, your  master owns lands, cattle , sheep,  gold ,silver, jewels, men , and all the wealth of the world!  Take it or leave it.”
The scribes reasoned with each other,  for a moment, only a moment, because their lust and greed blinded their reason.  They gave no thought of their masters armies, who loved Him and would be faithful to their master even without pay because they loved Him.  You see, He rescued them from an evil tyrant that treated them shamefully and hated them even though they were always good soldiers.
So they agreed on the price and said “we’ll take it”
As  Saldenavit waved goodbye, he could only smile.  Because what the evil scribes were unaware of was that Saldenavit also bore a grudge against their master.  He thought to himself with smug satisfaction” man will they be surprised when that 10th feature kicks in and that 40th scroll starts.”
You see Sal knew if he had told them about the 10th feature the scribes would not understand how damaging it would prove to be
Because Saldenavit was the craftiest liar that had ever lived!   


 To be continued…… what could the 10th feature possibly be?….
Next the scribes begin their work
Believer X  AKA Kevin



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Fester

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Re: hello, new member here- and a modern day parable
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2008, 03:21:02 AM »

Once upon a time .... never mind.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 03:23:32 AM by Fester »
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"Christianity began as a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. When it went to Athens, it became a philosophy. When it went to Rome, it became an organization. When it went to Europe, it became a culture. When it came to America, it became a business."

Beloved

  • Guest
Re: hello, new member here- and a modern day parable
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2008, 05:34:48 AM »

Too obvious Kevin 

Jesus and his disciples were walking around one day, when Jesus said, "The
Kingdom of Heaven is like 3x squared plus 8x minus 9."  The disciples
looked very puzzled, and finally asked Peter, "What on earth does Jesus
mean - the Kingdom of Heaven is like 3x squared plus 8x minus 9?  Peter
said, "Don't worry.  It's just another one of his parabolas."    8)

The 1oth feature is that the words would be written in parables, leading those who read understand the literal and not the spiritual.

Mat 13:34  All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Kevin if you read the rules of this forum ...you have to watch your jots and tittles here too.   ;)

beloved
« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 05:58:19 AM by Beloved »
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James

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Re: hello, new member here- and a modern day parable
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2008, 05:55:08 AM »

I find it interesting (and I'm guessing here) don't see you heading into tossing out scripture, but rather challenging blindly accepting traditional interpretations and encouraging seeking and digging for God's Truths...including as accurate of translations as we can find, as well as spirit revealed interpretation.  Is that right?  At least I hope that's where you're headed.

Are you going to continue your parable as being respectful of accurately translated, rightly divided scripture as being God's words?  I'll watch for Part II.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 05:56:38 AM by James »
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believerx

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Re: hello, new member here- and a modern day parable
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2008, 04:14:25 AM »

wow :(
didnt even get a hello.

beloved,
too obvious?
really?
perhaps then you would care to scripturally interpret this line:

“ah, but the pen has it’s own mind that will pick the most damaging place to insert 

just

one

single

word


that will throw all of your masters servants into slavery , so that He will have no workers”


How about this one?

But, when you get to that 40th scroll, there will be an invisible division so the continuity of  the whole 66 scrolls, will be lost!


since you have confidently asserted the following wrong assumption,

The 1oth feature is that the words would be written in parables, leading those who read understand the literal and not the spiritual,



i would recommend you call the omniscience repairman to get your all-knowing ability serviced- it seems to be running a tad slow ;)- since God's intention was that the scriptures to be written in mystery format- a lying pen would undermine and  not affirm that.


you are not even in the ballpark- and like most of the things i write- i have not learned from men.

since, according to the rules, i will not be allowed to teach you the meaning, or reprove ( insult) you, which nullifies correcting or training in righteousness being accomplished, i wil leave you with a blessing.

Peace
kevin
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believerx

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Re: hello, new member here- and a modern day parable
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2008, 04:32:14 AM »

hi james,

i have several translations not a one is without biases or mistakes that pervert many things, it only takes one thing on a car to be broken and it will not work.
the scriptures are much more complex and interdependent than an internal combustion engine.
to build good doctrine, even with a spiritual mind, you must have the actual words consistently translated.
tell me, where can one find this faithful translation you speak of ???
and while you are at- would you produce a video clip of bigfoot, nessie, and the abominable snowman having tea with the easter bunny? ;D

i have yet to discover it. please tell me so i can throw away all my superfluous reference books   >:(  what a total waste of time all these years :-[

peace ;)
kevin


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Beloved

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Re: hello, new member here- and a modern day parable
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2008, 10:07:10 AM »

You started with a riddle ....that is how you introduced yourself...and I played along since you made that your main point ...never the less.... hello and welcome

Eze 17:2  Son of man, put forth a riddle, and speak a parable unto the house of Israel;
Technically speaking about the parable, the whole Bible is a paprable...but God really drove the concept home in the NT, and man being full of vanity think tha they understand them....

Your right that there is not one trans...lation of man that is 'correct'...it is the nature of language and time  Erza when they returned from babylon even had to contend to this because none could read Hebrew.. he assigned men to trnaslate.

But I doubt that Jesus had any problems in translations  when He was 12 in the temple and was study Torah since he was one with the father....No wonder they arveled. Jesus, later in life did however correct the religious folk...and especially there reliance on their man made talmud.

Joh 5:39  Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

 Mar 12:24  And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the Scriptures, neither the power of God?[/color]

now there is the clue here...do you see it?

But you are wrong about there being not one ...there is one translation that I am learning to rely on

Joh 16:13  Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.

Psa 25:5  Lead me in thy truth, and teach me: for thou art the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait all the day.

Psa 119:105  Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

The Holy Spirit shows me what is there hidden in all of the garble , it is not on the surface of the print....it is revealed....I can't show it to anyone because it is invisible ink.

Regarding this riddle...Saldenavit is blind and he is leading the blind scribes and he is lying .....there is nothing that they can do to God's Word...First God has made them unable to see it or hear it.... and

Mat 15:14  Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

2Th 2:11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie The Fool that is selling the Pen and the fools that bought it.

Second  Isa 55:11  So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


beloved
« Last Edit: October 05, 2008, 12:19:11 PM by Beloved »
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Kat

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Re: hello, new member here- and a modern day parable
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2008, 11:03:24 AM »


Hi Kevin,

I missed your post yesterday, welcome to the forum  :)
This forum is a place where like minded believers can fellowship, I hope you can also share the peace we have here.  I'm not good at parables, that's why I study at BT.

There are many translations, all are made perfectly to suit His purpose.

Mar 4:12  That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

You may be interested in other stuff we have here.

The forum rules, it will help you see how this forum is moderated.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3.0.html
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4558.0.html
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3614.0.html

Forum Indexes & lots of Info.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/board,14.0.html

Ray's Videos
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8227.0.html

Ray's Audios 
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2641.0.html

Ray's 2008 Audios
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8256.0.html

Transcripts of Ray's Audios
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/board,12.0.html

Who Am I? (members pics and personal stuff)
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/board,16.0.html

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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believerx

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Re: hello, new member here- and a modern day parable
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2008, 03:57:46 AM »

thanks kat and beloved for the greeting.
beloved i am delighted to see this-
beloved wrote:

Technically speaking about the parable, the whole Bible is a paprable..

kev;
(if the following is teaching in violation of the rules - i dont know any other way to reply   ??? please clarify this rule for me- so i dont get in trouble. :) i can only to relate to people in a very narrow manner.)




beloved, this is without a doubt a totally veiled truth to all but a few- but do you really believe it? or even more importantly understand it- i am not trying to insult you here - i am giving you a compliment without any guile. which i rarely do :)

i have to be careful what i write where anyone can read it. secrets are a stewardship that must be kept.

if what you just said is true- which it is- then:
romans, corinthians, gal, eph, etc...  are parablolic in nature- so all those statements that are thought to be so clear and apparent are just as hidden as the most difficult passages in the gospels.
then the law and the prophets are also parables, and the way they come to us-

fragmented and incomplete by themselves.

Hebrews 1

 1God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in


many portions ( parts- incomplete and fragmented- scattered about)
many portions
many portions

( this is what gets me so irked- people think that gen 3 is a conversation that took place in the time it takes someone to read it, that is totally preposterous and laughable and i am now ashamed i used to believe the same foolishness)


and in many ways,


but even here i find that people dont really follow the principle


i spend hours in my head unraveling and meditatating on these mysteries and i must admit there are many that are as yet to be revealed to me.

Beloved said:

.but God really drove the concept home in the NT, and man being full of vanity think tha they understand them....


kevin wrote;

How about this one?

But, when you get to that 40th scroll, there will be an invisible division so the continuity of  the whole 66 scrolls, will be lost!

 i asked you what this meant -here is where you missed it.


The Golden Lampstand ex 25:
 31"Then you shall make a lampstand of pure gold. The lampstand and its base and its shaft are to be made of hammered work;

 its cups, (22 cups)

 its bulbs (22 bulbs)

 and its flowers ( 22 flowers)

                                              (66 separate, yet identifiable parts)

shall be of one piece with it.
shall be of one piece with it.
shall be of one piece with it.
shall be of one piece with it.
shall be of one piece with it.





 32"Six branches shall go out from its sides; three branches of the lampstand from its one side and three branches of the lampstand from its other side.

 33"Three cups shall be shaped like almond blossoms in the one branch, a bulb and a flower, and three cups shaped like almond blossoms in the other branch, a bulb and a flower--so for six branches going out from the lampstand;

 34and in the lampstand four cups shaped like almond blossoms, its bulbs and its flowers.

 35"A bulb shall be under the first pair of branches coming out of it, and a bulb under the second pair of branches coming out of it, and a bulb under the third pair of branches coming out of it, for the six branches coming out of the lampstand.

 36"Their bulbs and their branches shall be of

one piece
one piece
one piece



one


piece



 with it; all of it shall be

one piece
( do you see a pattern developing here?)

 of hammered work of pure gold.

Here is the point-

There is NO NEW testament, there is NO Old testament - there is only the scriptures- 66 books that make up

one

seamless

revelation from God!

which the majority treat over half of it with little more than casual acknowledgement and relegate most of it as historical which it isnt.

so now you can stop saying there is a NT ;)

as for the pen:

Jer 8:8
 How can you say, 'We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us?  But behold, the

 lying pen of the scribes

Has made it into a lie.


how how how?


peace
kevin


Scripture taken from the NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE®, Copyright ©
1960,1962,1963,1968,1971,1972,1973,1975,1977,1995 by The Lockman
Foundation. Used by permission."
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James

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Re: hello, new member here- and a modern day parable
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2008, 04:24:04 AM »

Kevin, OK, maybe I spoke too literally for you  ;).  IMO there are more accurate translations than others, and even within that group I find I need to "check around" in different ones to get a "clearer picture".  No, I don't believe we have one perfect translation, and I didn't say that...it may have sounded to be implied and then assumed?  And bottom line, as stated and as beloved said, and I trust/believe you agree, must be spirit revealed...James.
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believerx

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Re: hello, new member here- and a modern day parable
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2008, 06:09:11 AM »

hi james,
no you didnt speak too literally. i hope you appreciate my humor :)
i bear you no malice- but stop giving your own opininion- you are not afforded the luxury anymore if you will serve Christ.

James wrote:
IMO there are more accurate translations than others, and even within that group I find I need to "check around"

kevin;

how did you come to this conclusion without comparing them with the original text?

check all of them if you want i am trying to help by streamlining the process for you. they ( all the translations) are like busted engines in a car- why try to salvage the useful parts from many and make some kind of frankenstein amalgamation?
all the original words contain the value you need to unlock the mysteries- if indeed the spirirt of christ dwells in you. but YOU MUST HAVE THE ORIGINAL WORDS!!!  otherwise you can not tell the difference in ANY ENGLISH BIBLE.
it would take me too long to cover this even comprehensively but look at this:

6.Translate a single word into many different words all throughout the scrolls.
7.Translate many different words into a single word  all throughout the scrolls.


this is important because nearly every translation does this- it hinders understanding to your english speaking, thinking, hearing, seeing mind.


6.Translate a single word into many different words all
 throughout  the scrolls.
You can verfiy this even with a strong’s conc. look up a word like AGE -go to the dictionary and you will find Many words that this single greek word has been translated into english.

this inconsistency hinders the linking of the use of these words to get a

"clear picture "

of its total use in the greek scriptures


 7.Translate many different words into a single word  all    throughout  the scrolls.

Again, You can verfy this even with a strongs conc. look up a word like judge: look to the right column and see the MANY #'s (representing greek words)this 1 single english word has been translated from.  when the translators throw all these differing words into a pile and just label them with a single word - you lose all the nuance and the ability to distinguish between some VERY IMPORTANT "seeming" contradictions. People love to qoute "judge not" when this is a legal term that is elaborated on in 1 cor 6- as "GO TO LAW"
which nearly all "christians" disobey or give hearty appoval to it's disobedience, by divorcing their covenant mates and re-marrying thereby committing adultery in any subsequent marriage.

this whole spirit revealed stuff all sounds nice and uncontentious but the scriptures are the words of the spirit. it isnt some subjective experiential internal vulcan mindmeld- it can be articulated into a comprehensible arguement from the scriptures themselves.  that is what the tower of babel is all about-

everybody speaking in different languages unable to understand the others.
which in turn breeds contempt and war and murder.

 if you have ears to hear. ;)

peace

kevin



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Beloved

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Re: hello, new member here- and a modern day parable
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2008, 10:10:49 AM »

Ray teaches that the whole Bible is a parable and the ones that see it know it.

Rom 11:33  O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

This is said to those who superficially read and do not plow

Isa 45:3  And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

(Pro 25:2 KJVR)  It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.

These are said to those who will plow the road. The 22 22 22/one piece is one small revelation amoung the  billions.

There are so many beautiful things hidden in and among the scriptures it will blow the socks off skeptics and those too busy to study.

Regarding the naming of the parts of the Scriptures, this is for reference . We here at BT know the Word of God is seamless... The Torah Tenach and the Good News are only bookmarks and pointers. Man can be a lumper or a splitter at times, that is the way they think and communicate.

Luk 24:44  And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

You said
i have to be careful what i write where anyone can read it. secrets are a stewardship that must be kept.
We are to guard and keep His word, but those who cannot see, cannot understand.

 G5083
τηρέω   tēreō
Thayer Definition:  1) to attend to carefully, take care of  1a) to guard
1b) metaphorically to keep, one in the state in which he is  1c) to observe
1d) to reserve: to undergo something
Part of Speech: verb

There is not one word in the bible that lacks meaning..., it will not return void, the mintest deatils all have meanings, it is just that computers made of meat cannot comprehend it.

You said
if the following is teaching in violation of the rules - i dont know any other way to reply    please clarify this rule for me- so i dont get in trouble.  i can only to relate to people in a very narrow manner.)

Even though what you have said is interesting , unfortunately BelieverX this forum's purpose is not to pursue these things. This particular forum is for sharing Rays teachings aout the word.  This forum is part of Ray's website.


Beloved




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hillsbororiver

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Re: hello, new member here- and a modern day parable
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2008, 10:54:37 AM »

The following is an email answer from Ray that touches on Old Covenant/New Covenant, Old Testament/New Testament, Christ fulfilled the Old bringing us the New, the New Testament chronicles this transformation.

 Dear Byron:

Thank you for your comments and/or questions.

You are not distinguishing between things that differ as the Scriptures admonish us.

It seems hardly anyone knows that "fulfill means." Jesus said that he "fulfilled" the LAW, yet it is taught today in the Church that it YET needs to be fulfilled BY US. What is that?  I have never heard a minister yet put the parts of Christ declaration together:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law OR THE PROPHETS: I am not come to destroy, [the law AND THE PROPHETS], but to fulfill [the law AND THE PROPHETS]" (Matt. 5:17).

Now then, did Jesus Christ "fulfill" all of the prophecies concerning Him? Well if He did, then does there REMAIN any that He DID NOT FULFILL? Then why doesn't anyone, it seems, believe that He also and in the very same way fulfilled "the law?"

We are now under a NEW COVENANT [and Hebrews 8 tells us that this NEW covenant is NOT IN ACCORD with the OLD covenant.

The Pharisees kept the old testament law of Moses with its ten commandments. But Jesus said that WE, Believers, must FAR EXCEED the righteousness of the Pharisees. Jesus gave us NEW COMMANDMENTS that are far superior to the old law. Christ's laws are SPIRITUAL laws. The Old Covenant which really IS "the ten commandments" (See Deut. 4:13) was an administration of DEATH. The laws were of the letter (death) not of the spirit (life). See II Cor. 3.

Under the Old Covenant you were to HATE YOUR ENEMIES. Under the New we are to LOVE OUR ENEMIES. Love your enemies is not a slight modification of hating your enemies.  Not lusting after a woman is not a slight modification of not committing physical intercourse with a married woman. NOT SWEARING is not a slight modification of swearing!  Etc. Can you see this? Under the old covenant one was to love his neighbor as himself. Under the new we are to esteem our neighbor HIGHER than ourselves. Do you see the difference?

Things that were "holy" and have run their course, are NO LONGER Holy. All Israel was Holy. Physical Israel is no longer holy. Sacrifices were HOLY unto the Lord; they no longer are. Tithing was just as specific a law as sacrificing. Tithes were of farm products NOT MONEY. It was paid to the Levites. There are no Levites today. It was kept in storehouses. There are no storehouses today. Go to the nominal Christian church and as for food from their storehouse to feed some poor that you are aware of. They will in all probability TURN YOU AWAY, even though their bank accounts are filled with MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of dollars, often times. There is NO TEMPLE at which the Levites and Priests officiate today. And if you liken the Church today as God's nation of priests as Peter tells us, then we ALL should be receiving tithes, NOT PAYING TITHES!

Byron, Paul NEVER, EVER taught, or collected tithes from the Gentile congregations. Can you not see that?  Why did he work with his own hands if he were collecting millions and millions and millions from the HUNDREDS of congregations he founded? Seriously, these are questions that need answering. Paul never taught tithing and he never collected tithes, so why should anyone else who claims to be a minister of Jesus Christ??

Now it is not wrong to support a church or pay a salary to a pastor, but it cannot be in the form of MONEY FROM A VOID LAW OF PRODUCE TITHING.

You are right, we should not CONTINUE TO SIN, and teaching and collecting tithe money from believers IS A GROSS SIN!!!

God be with you,

Ray

http://bible-truths.com/email8.htm

I realize that the above relates primarily to a question about tithing but the premise of Christ transforming the "old" into the "new" is made very clear here.

Peace,

Joe


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indianabob

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Re: hello, new member here- and a modern day parable
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2008, 03:09:56 PM »

wow :(
didnt even get a hello.

beloved,
too obvious?
really?
perhaps then you would care to scripturally interpret this line:

“ah, but the pen has it’s own mind that will pick the most damaging place to insert 

just

one

single

word


that will throw all of your masters servants into slavery , so that He will have no workers”


How about this one?

But, when you get to that 40th scroll, there will be an invisible division so the continuity of  the whole 66 scrolls, will be lost!


since you have confidently asserted the following wrong assumption,

The 1oth feature is that the words would be written in parables, leading those who read understand the literal and not the spiritual,



i would recommend you call the omniscience repairman to get your all-knowing ability serviced- it seems to be running a tad slow ;)- since God's intention was that the scriptures to be written in mystery format- a lying pen would undermine and  not affirm that.


you are not even in the ballpark- and like most of the things i write- i have not learned from men.

since, according to the rules, i will not be allowed to teach you the meaning, or reprove ( insult) you, which nullifies correcting or training in righteousness being accomplished, i wil leave you with a blessing.

Peace
kevin


New Friend Kevin,

Please take my response with a spoon full of sugar to sweeten my words if they seem strange.

1. You are new here and yet you write to us with a familiarity that you have not yet earned.  You don't know us and yet the tone of your words presumes intimate knowledge of our individual background.

2. Your rhetoric seems to be from an extensive education and yet your approach is that of a recent graduate who feels a need to share what has been learned with others perhaps with a desire to demonstrate accomplishment.

3. Frankly Kevin, I am not concerned with the source of your knowledge or with third party references or degrees in a particular discipline; what I am concerned about it to draw closer to you in the framework of brotherhood and Christian love.  I am willing to share my feelings and beliefs and I sincerely solicit your friendship and any spiritual understanding that you have been given in your journey of faith.  So, if we can, let's keep it simple for the first few weeks until we develop a spiritual bond of brotherhood that will encourage deeper understanding and clear communication.

Thank you for your patient reading of my humble views and welcome to the B T forum.

Indiana Bob
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believerx

  • Guest
Re: hello, new member here- and a modern day parable
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2008, 03:30:03 AM »

well bob,
you should know i wil say what i say. you are correct i do not have a familiarity with anyone here. i have no formal theological education- no letters, no one to vouch for me. barely graduted high school.
i dont relate to people at all really- there is only one person that i can even have a conversation with, my grown son, everyone else has literally forsaken me - and he hadnt spoken to me for over 2 years and he lives 1000 miles away. i havent seen him or my other son in over 3 years, all because of the evil circumcision that upset( tore apart) my whole family.  tit 1:10-11 nasb -and i am as angry as God is about it. so if that is what bleeds into what i write....

so i come here and the only thing i can do i say what i say, looking for some commonality between people that say God will save all, which is rare, but in my reading of scripture not really a qualification for elect status.  doesnt mean i dont deeply care for people, i do. i read the heart wrenching stories and i am sorrowful, i have suffered immeasurable loss in my own eyes, and even in a worldly material sense( i have almost nothing - everything has been taken- i am not exaggerating, i do not deserve this, but i am also hard presssed to do what i do. i am the son that did not want to work in the vineyard but ended up doing it anyway.  i have no real sensual disire to do this- it doesnot mend my broken heart.

i have been hurt and rejected by the very ones that promised me their earthly love so much that anything a million strangers could say to me online would hurt about as much as a mosquito bite. i said initially i would move on.

there is a quote from a silly movie poster that sums up my outlook on all this-

Napoleon Dynamite-"he's out to prove he has nothing to prove"
and niether do i. but woe unto me if i do not preach the gospel.
if i have to go thru some preliminary probation before i say what comes to mind, then i probably will not say anything at all. i have volumes of things i do not share- because God restrains me.

i appreciate your comments - but there has not been a soul that has really helped me in way that i would have wanted, for a long time.

thanx tho.
peace
kevin

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Samson

  • Guest
Re: hello, new member here- and a modern day parable
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2008, 07:20:15 AM »

Good Morning Kevin,

                            Welcome to the Forum, I hope your journey here is a pleasant one, there is no reason why it shouldn't be. I can't speak for everyone, but this is a place for warm fellowship and for upbuilding conversation. Insofar as rejection is concerned, welcome to the club, many have experienced such rejection. As a former JW for twenty years, I have exceeded the maximum regarding rejection and the extreme legalism experienced in my former Denomination.

                             We have an interesting variety of personalities belonging to this Forum and occasionally we bump heads, but overall there at least seems to be a mutual respect and Love(Agapeo) towards one another. Of course with imperfect Carnal Human Beings(at least to some degree), that we all are, there won't be perfect harmony of thought and agreement, but it's the best I've experienced thus far.

                              Glad you have joined us and looking forward to your Posts and Comments in the days ahead.

                                                 Kind Regards, Samson.
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iris

  • Guest
Re: hello, new member here- and a modern day parable
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2008, 10:36:38 AM »

well bob,
you should know i wil say what i say. you are correct i do not have a familiarity with anyone here. i have no formal theological education- no letters, no one to vouch for me. barely graduted high school.
i dont relate to people at all really- there is only one person that i can even have a conversation with, my grown son, everyone else has literally forsaken me - and he hadnt spoken to me for over 2 years and he lives 1000 miles away. i havent seen him or my other son in over 3 years, all because of the evil circumcision that upset( tore apart) my whole family.  tit 1:10-11 nasb -and i am as angry as God is about it. so if that is what bleeds into what i write....

so i come here and the only thing i can do i say what i say, looking for some commonality between people that say God will save all, which is rare, but in my reading of scripture not really a qualification for elect status.  doesnt mean i dont deeply care for people, i do. i read the heart wrenching stories and i am sorrowful, i have suffered immeasurable loss in my own eyes, and even in a worldly material sense( i have almost nothing - everything has been taken- i am not exaggerating, i do not deserve this, but i am also hard presssed to do what i do. i am the son that did not want to work in the vineyard but ended up doing it anyway.  i have no real sensual disire to do this- it doesnot mend my broken heart.

i have been hurt and rejected by the very ones that promised me their earthly love so much that anything a million strangers could say to me online would hurt about as much as a mosquito bite. i said initially i would move on.

there is a quote from a silly movie poster that sums up my outlook on all this-

Napoleon Dynamite-"he's out to prove he has nothing to prove"
and niether do i. but woe unto me if i do not preach the gospel.
if i have to go thru some preliminary probation before i say what comes to mind, then i probably will not say anything at all. i have volumes of things i do not share- because God restrains me.

i appreciate your comments - but there has not been a soul that has really helped me in way that i would have wanted, for a long time.

thanx tho.
peace
kevin




Hi Kevin,

Welcome to the forum!!
I feel sad after reading your post and I'm wondering what kind of help you need ?


Iris
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Craig

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
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  • There are two kinds of cops.The quick and the dead
Re: hello, new member here- and a modern day parable
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2008, 11:08:30 AM »

Quote
but woe unto me if i do not preach the gospel.

Are you comparing yourself to the Apostle Paul?  Paul was called to preach, but not all are.  Are you?  Great if you are, but if you are not then why put that burden on yourself?  I am not called to preach and there is no "woe unto me".  If I tried to preach and I was not called by God, I would fail.

I appreciate your trials, I really do.  Bob made a some good comments that you should take time to self reflect on.  Preaching in such cryptic manner is not nourishing the body of Christ.  Christ spoke in parable because the masses were not ready or capable to understand His words, the Comforter had not come upon anyone at that time.  Perhaps we are not able to understand Christs words either, but you are not Christ.

Why not start over? Introduce yourself, you say you believe God will save all, so do we, so there is some common ground.  Have you read the teachings on www.bible-truths.com? If not take a timeout to read and study them, you may find there is much more common ground.  Our purpose is to discuss the teachings we have learned from bible-truths.  Other teaching/teachers, though possibly correct, is not welcomed here because of the wealth of information provided by Ray Smith should keep us plenty busy and other teachings cloud these discussions and lead to endless debate.  We strive to cultivate a common ground on the forum.

Welcome

Craig
« Last Edit: October 07, 2008, 02:09:12 PM by Craig »
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Daddysgirl

  • Guest
Re: hello, new member here- and a modern day parable
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2008, 07:32:06 AM »

Hi all

I have found this particular thread very interesting.
2 Questions:

1. How are we to know if what BelievErx is introducing/teaching is not contrary to what Ray has been teaching if we do not give him a chance?
2. Have we come to another place where one man is esteemed higher than Christ or even the Scriptures? Does it mean that God cannot reveal anymore than He already has via Ray Smith?

I really need these questions answered and i hope they have been presented humbly enough to warrant an honest answer. My life depends on it... and yes i have read the forum rules... just maybe i have missed something.

Thanks
Matty
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mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: hello, new member here- and a modern day parable
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2008, 08:03:41 AM »

From 'Forum Rules':

This forum and how it is moderated, is different than most all religious based forums on the internet so please read carefully.

If you are considering joining this forum before reading and studying  www.bible-truths.com, please reconsider.
It would be beneficial to all involved if you take the time to familiarize yourself with the teaching of L.Ray Smith first.

This is not the place to decide if you agree with the teaching of L.Ray Smith, but a place you can retreat to when you do.

This forum is primarily a place for people of a like mind to fellowship, and secondarily to discuss and question what they learn on bible-truths.com.


If you seriously disagree with Ray, please email him directly.

If you come here to teach us, please take your teaching elsewhere.

THIS FORUM IS NOT TO BE USED TO DEBATE RELIGIOUS TOPICS

Please do not make sport of persons who email Ray. Leave any criticism of the individual to Ray.

No preaching (including preaching via links).
Links are not allowed if a site or article brings its own teaching or preaching.  Links are allowed if a site it just for fun or informational, ie, you tube, google translator, Esword, etc.

No using this forum as a recruiting ground to other forums, by pm's or public posting.

No inappropriate language or profanity allowed.

No name-calling.

This forum is moderated, if you feel you cannot accept the bounds of a limited forum then don’t join.  The moderators do not have the time to explain every decision to you on why a post was deleted, so don’t expect it.

The moderators will generally try to remove posts before banning a member, don’t take it personally.  If you see your posts being removed then perhaps you should review what you are writing to make sure is goes along with the forum rules.  If you are asked to let a subject drop, or a particular subject is off limits then please abide by what the moderators ask.  Don’t necessarily expect a reason for the request, many things go on behind the scenes of the forum and the moderators are doing what they feel is best.

If you have a problem with a moderator, the way the forum is managed, or another user of the forum then address this through private mails.  Publicly airing your grievances could be grounds for banishment, and will get your post deleted.


 
Hi all

I have found this particular thread very interesting.
2 Questions:

1. How are we to know if what BelievErx is introducing/teaching is not contrary to what Ray has been teaching if we do not give him a chance?
2. Have we come to another place where one man is esteemed higher than Christ or even the Scriptures? Does it mean that God cannot reveal anymore than He already has via Ray Smith?

I really need these questions answered and i hope they have been presented humbly enough to warrant an honest answer. My life depends on it... and yes i have read the forum rules... just maybe i have missed something.

Thanks
Matty

Hello Matty,

(1) If Kevin would like to introduce/teach anything, the forum is not the place for it. Think how much harder the moderator's jobs would be having to go through everyone who attempted to teach to see if it was contrary or in agreement with Ray. The internet is a big place...I'm sure there's room for Kevin if he would like.

(2a) This forum's purpose is not to esteem Ray higher than any man in anyplace. Why would you even suggest Ray is being esteemed higher than Christ (who IS the scriptures)? All of Ray's teachings are based off scriptures; where has he ever introduced a teaching that wasn't based off scripture?

(2b) The moderators speaking to Kevin does not mean God 'cannot' reveal anymore than He already has via Ray. All things are possible with God and if He wants to use Kevin, He'll provide the means to do so as He has with Ray.

Also, Christ does not change. He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. All the parables that Christ gave while in his earthly ministry were about the same thing (Many are called, Few are chosen). IF this 'modern day parable' is of God, it would be of the same. That's all I have to say about that.


Thanks ,

Marques
« Last Edit: October 08, 2008, 09:22:50 AM by mharrell08 »
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