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[rocky]

Reading thru these scriptures, wondering especially about verse 40.  Is this talking about types of resurrected bodies?  or just types of bodies in general, a terrestrial (flesh now) and celestial (after resurrection)?

 1Cr 15:35 But some [man] will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?  

 1Cr 15:39 All flesh [is] not the same flesh: but [there is] one [kind of] flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, [and] another of birds.  

 1Cr 15:40 [There are] also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another.  

  1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:  

 1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:  

 1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.  

 1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.  

 1Cr 15:46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.  

 1Cr 15:47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.  

 1Cr 15:48 As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly.  

 1Cr 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.


What i'm struggling with is understanding the resurrection to judgment in John 5 for non believers.   I understand that this judgment is the lake of fire, and it is to burn out the carnal mind.  But,since the resurrection is a resurrection to life, (carnal mind is death, mind of spirit is life) incorruptible, spiritual, heavenly, power, celestial, bearing the image of the heavenly;

it would seem that our carnal mind (soul) won't be resurrected to undergo judgment.  I don't see how the lake of fire can burn out the carnal mind after the resurrection, as the carnal mind exists in the soulish state, not the resurrected state???.  

It seems to me the carnal mind is alive in the "soulish man", and satan can only feed on it while we are dust (flesh).  Seems to me the resurrection has nothing to do with the carnal soulish being resurrected?  

would appreciate any help.

[eutychus]

hey rocky,

 me personally i do think there will be different ranks.

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt

And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name.



name=name, i.e. for one's rank, authority, interests, pleasure, command, excellences, deeds etc

[Mickyd]

I put together a post a couple of weeks back and didn't get much of a responce. I actually think it may help...

http://forums.bible-truths.com/viewtopic.php?t=596

[eutychus]

I put together a post a couple of weeks back and didn't get much of a responce. I actually think it may help...

http://forums.bible-truths.com/viewtopic.php?t=596

that was excellent!!

i am going to have to use some of it :wink:
nicely laid out!!!

peace
chuckt

[chrissiela]

Didn't Christ come to tell us how we might obtain 'eternal life'?

So what IS eternal life?

Joh 17:3  And

this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.[/list:u]


He said:

Joh 6:63  

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.[/list:u]

I have come to the point where I almost never look at the NATURAL/PHYSICAL application of the scriptures.... but how they lead to LIFE (Christ).

Christ came to give LIFE to the DEAD. And we are all DEAD apart from Him.

2Co 5:14  For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all,

then were all DEAD:[/list:u]

So if I look at those verses in light of how the DEAD are raised and with what BODY are they raised... I am not looking at the PHYSICALLY DEAD... but those that are VOID of the SPIRIT. How are THEY raised?

Are they not CLOTHED WITH Christ? (corruption PUTTING ON incorruption; mortality PUTTING ON immortality).

Only Christ is IMMORTAL and only Christ saw NO CORRUPTION. So I see that as PUTTING ON or BEING CLOTHED with CHRIST.

I see it as an OLD man (creature) vs NEW man (creature)... being RE-born in order to enter into the kingdom.

1Co 15:39  All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

1Co 15:40  There are also

celestial (heavenly, walking in the spirit  :?: ) bodies, and bodies terrestrial (earthly... walking in the flesh  :?: ): but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

1Co 15:41  There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. (The stars are held in His right hand.)

1Co 15:42  So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Co 15:43  It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1Co 15:44  It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Co 15:45  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.[/list:u]

The OLD MAN (outward man) being our 'natural' body - that which walks in the flesh and the NEW MAN (INWARD MAN - CHRIST) being that which walks in the spirit.  :shock:   :?:  Being raised WITH CHRIST and seated WITH HIM in the heavens. Being 'changed' from a NATURAL man to a SPIRITUAL man.  :?:

2Co 3:16  Nevertheless

when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

2Co 3:17  Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

2Co 3:18  But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. (ref 1Co 15:41 above)[/list:u]

IS, WAS, AND WILL BE!!!  :wink:

Let's not forget the IS and WAS... looking only at the WILL BE.  :lol:  :lol:

Blessings,
Chrissie

[Daniel]

THIS IS what I was asking on the other post. MORTAL "PUTS IT ON" THATS what I'm looking at too Chrissie

Peter knew to say PUT OFF "THIS tabernacle" (which IS MORTAL) Yet Paul says, "THIS MORTAL[/u] must PUT ON IMMORTALITY[/u]. The wording shows they know to say what they mean here.

THIS corruptible must PUT ON incorruptible,

Christ  IS BOTH incorruptible and immortal and we are to "PUT ON HIM". To be CLOTHED with CHRIST. This all after the divine nature we are  made partakers of (meekneess, humillity, gentlleness etc) incorruptible fruit (nature) after a spiritual truth. Our life is HID "in Him" and HIS LIFE (Immortal, incorruptible) is "to be MANIFESTED" IN our MORTAL BODY.

Mortal puts this on, its sown in corruption itself and raised incorruptible. This is what I'm seeing in these verses as it seems to confirm these things in every place mentioned. Death seems like a "state of being" of carnality in mindset, which is death already. Which death is it speaking of, I'm seeing this not even talking about the death of the body at all. But the passing over from death unto life as a switch between what goes on in unseen realms of where we are abiding.

Daniel

[chrissiela]

Yes, Daniel, I saw that in your other post after I wrote here. I must have missed it before.

It is our body that seems to be 'quickened' by the spirit (and the last Adam was made a quickening spirit)  So that we can walk no longer after the lusts of the flesh but walk WITH HIM.   [-o<

I don't think that this 'disagrees' with BT's  :?:  Just looking at it more in the way of the IS, WAS AND WILL BE (instead of only that which is still 'to come')  :wink:

God is not the God of the DEAD, but of the LIVING.... but Christ is Lord OVER BOTH.

Rom 14:9  For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.[/list:u]

He rose AND revived (seems sort of redundant, don't it??  :lol: )... not sure of what that means, why it's put that way???  :shock:  

HE was LIFTED UP on the cross and RESURRRECTED from the grave?? Or HE rose FROM THE DEAD... and QUICKENS (revives) us??? Still don't have a good handle on that verse.  :lol:  :lol:

But I DO KNOW that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, but Christ has a body of FLESH AND BONE (His church, His body.... drinking in HIS

pure blood)

We are no longer endebted to the flesh and walking in bondage, but FREED from sin and death.

Rom 8:5  For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh;

but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Rom 8:6  For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is LIFE and peace.

Rom 8:7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Rom 8:8  So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Rom 8:9  But ye are NOT IN THE FLESH, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom 8:10  And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Rom 8:11  But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Rom 8:12  Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

Rom 8:13  For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Rom 8:14  For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.[/list:u]

Are we not then "resurrected FROM THE DEAD" when we receive Christ? Even now?

We have received the earnest of the spirit and been given LIFE!!

2Co 1:22  Who hath also

sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

2Co 5:5  Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.[/list:u]


Blessings,
Chrissie

[Steve Crook]

Mat 22:29-32
(29)  Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God.
(30)  For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
(31)  But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
(32)  I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Act 24:14-15
(14)  But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
(15)  And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust[/b][/i].

Rom 1:4-6
(4)  And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
(5)  By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name;
(6)  Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

1Co 15:12-14
(12)  Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
(13)  But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
(14)  And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

1Co 15:40-48
(40)  There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
(41)  There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
(42)  So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
(43)  It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
(44)  It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
(45)  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
(46)  Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
(47)  The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
(48)  As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

Phi 3:8-14
(8)  Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
(9)  And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
(10)  That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
(11)  If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
(12)  Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
(13)  Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
(14)  I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Heb 6:1-3
(1)  Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
(2)  Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
(3)  And this will we do, if God permit. (Ressurrection of the dead is but MILK? We should know this PRINCIPLE of the doctrine of Christ before we move on to the meat and perfection?)

1Pe 1:3-5
(3)  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
(4)  To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
(5)  Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Rev 20:5
(5)  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

[chrissiela]

Mat 22:29-32
(29)  Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God.
(30)  For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
(31)  But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
(32)  I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

AMEN!! They neither marry, nor are given in marriage for they are ESPOUSED to ONE husband – Christ. His church, His body, His BRIDE!!

Act 24:14-15
(14)  But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
(15)  And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust[/b][/i].

Amen again!! ALL are resurrected and given LIFE… both the just and the unjust. … each in his own order.

Rom 1:4-6
(4)  And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
(5)  By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name;
(6)  Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

Yes…. Endowed with the POWER of the HOLY SPIRIT.

Act 1:8  But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Rom 15:13  Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

Batized in FIRE.

1Co 15:12-14
(12)  Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
(13)  But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
(14)  And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

AMEN… We are ALL dead and must ALL be resurrected. There HAS to be a RESURRECTION; if there is none than Christ is not risen and neither will we be.

1Co 15:40-48
(40)  There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
(41)  There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
(42)  So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
(43)  It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
(44)  It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
(45)  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
(46)  Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
(47)  The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
(48)  As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

YEP!!  :wink:

Phi 3:8-14
(  Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
(9)  And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
(10)  That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
(11)  If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
(12)  Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
(13)  Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
(14)  I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

ABSOLUTELY!!! The knowledge OF CHRIST JESUS.  To now HIM and the POWER of His resurrection, which is the HOLY GHOST. It is by this same POWER that Christ was able to lay down His own life and take it up again.

Joh 10:18  No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Heb 6:1-3
(1)  Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
(2)  Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
(3)  And this will we do, if God permit. (Ressurrection of the dead is but MILK? We should know this PRINCIPLE of the doctrine of Christ before we move on to the meat and perfection?)

AMEN AGAIN!!    We must have CHRIST… IN US… and be partakers of HIS LIFE to even be able to RECEIVE the MEAT. WE must GROW and MATURE and MOVE ON to perfection… IN HIM.  

1Pe 1:3-5
(3)  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
(4)  To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
(5)  Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

INDEED!!!! The kingdom of God is at hand and we must all PRESS INTO IT. God willing, of course.  :wink:

Joh 4:23  But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Joh 5:25  Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Rev 20:5
(5)  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Amen…. and blessed and holy is he who takes part in the first resurrection.

Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Great scriptures!!!

Blessings,
Chrissie

(edited to recapture Steve’s original formatting  :oops:  )

[Steve Crook]

I have the same problem chrissie, I posted 3 times, lol... I had to delete 2 of them...PHP errors again today it seems...

[chrissiela]

I have the same problem chrissie, I posted 3 times, lol... I had to delete 2 of them...PHP errors again today it seems...

seems so I keep getting some kind of "debugging" error...  :lol:

Chrissie

[rocky]

Thank you all for the great insight, especially re: eternal (aionios) life we can have now.  

But I still don't see, maybe i'm not supposed to, how those who go to the grave physically without aionios life,  how they can be resurrected to a state of death (carnal) to then undergo judgment when in I Corinthians 15 we are told that we are resurrected to life (zoopio sp??).  Carnal minded is death, not life.  

Is not the carnal mind at work only in the soilish person.  flesh plus breath (spirit)= living creature (a thinking soul=carnal, death)?

[chrissiela]

Thank you all for the great insight, especially re: eternal (aionios) life we can have now.  

But I still don't see, maybe i'm not supposed to, how those who go to the grave physically without aionios life,  how they can be resurrected to a state of death (carnal) to then undergo judgment when in I Corinthians 15 we are told that we are resurrected to life (zoopio sp??).  Carnal minded is death, not life.  

Is not the carnal mind at work only in the soilish person.  flesh plus breath (spirit)= living creature (a thinking soul=carnal, death)?

Rocky,

I don't know that I would say that anyone is resurrected to a 'state of death'.  That's sort of an oxymoron isn't it?  :lol:

We are all dead UNTIL we are given life.

Judgment begins at the house of God, right?

1Pe 4:17  For

the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?[/list:u]

Are those who receive 'life' through Christ NOW brought into a 'state of death'? No, they are given LIFE and in the process they are JUDGED. It's not an instantaneous thing, though, is it ?

We don't suddenly jump straight from death to 'perfection' in Him. We become children of God... and as SONS we must mature into 'men' until we reach the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.

Eph 4:13  Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God,

unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:[/list:u]


And isn't the Lord the SAME yesterday and today and forever?

Heb 13:8  Jesus Christ the

same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.[/list:u]

What will the 'end' be for those who obey NOT the gospel of God? Won't they reach the SAME 'end'... Christ?

Rev 22:13  I am Alpha and Omega,

the beginning and the end, the first and the last.[/list:u]

Those who receive life through the Holy Spirit now are in the presence of the Lord... no longer walking 'in the flesh', but 'in the spirit'.  Those who are resurrected LATER are resurrected INTO the presence of the Lamb and they will be judged just as we are, growing in the knowledge and love OF HIM... unto perfection.

Does that make sense?

Chrissie

[rocky]

Thank you all for the great insight, especially re: eternal (aionios) life we can have now.  

But I still don't see, maybe i'm not supposed to, how those who go to the grave physically without aionios life,  how they can be resurrected to a state of death (carnal) to then undergo judgment when in I Corinthians 15 we are told that we are resurrected to life (zoopio sp??).  Carnal minded is death, not life.  

Is not the carnal mind at work only in the soilish person.  flesh plus breath (spirit)= living creature (a thinking soul=carnal, death)?

Rocky,

I don't know that I would say that anyone is resurrected to a 'state of death'.  That's sort of an oxymoron isn't it?  :lol:

We are all dead UNTIL we a given life.

Judgment begins at the house of God, right?

1Pe 4:17  For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?[/list:u]

Are those who receive 'life' through Christ NOW brought into a 'state of death'? No, they are given LIFE and in the process they are JUDGED. It's not an instantaneous things, though, is it ?

We don't suddenly jump straight from death to 'perfection' in Him.

And isn't the Lord the SAME yesterday and today and forever?

Heb 13:8  Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

What will the 'end' be for those who obey NOT the gospel of God? Won't they reach the SAME 'end'... Christ?

Rev 22:13  I am Alpha and Omega,

the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Those who receive life through the Holy Spirit now are in the presence of the Lord... no longer walking 'in the flesh', but 'in the spirit'.  Those who are resurrected LATER are resurrected INTO the presence of the Lamb and they will be judged just as we are, growing in the knowledge and love OF HIM... unto perfection.

Does that make sense?

Chrissie

sort of, but here is my struggle.  The lake of fire is to burn out everything carnal.  Carnal=death.  If LOF is after physical death, and we are resurrected to judgment, to burn out death (carnal thinking), we have to be resurrected with that death???  How can there be carnal thots to burn out, if we are not carnal/death, but alive??

[chrissiela]

Do we have to be resurrected WITH that death... or just the KNOWLEDGE of it? Being made AWARE of the fact that we WERE dead?

Chrissie

[rocky]

Do we have to be resurrected WITH that death... or just the KNOWLEDGE of it? Being made AWARE of the fact that we WERE dead?

Chrissie

It has to be destroyed, in the fire; so I would thiink that it has to be a part of us?  

But good question.

[chrissiela]

You don't enter the fire until after you have been given 'life', right? Isn't that the case with those being judged NOW?

Oh wait... I see what you are saying.... those who are being judged now - having that 'carnal' nature burned out of them are still IN THE FLESH, IN "this body of death"

I see what you are asking now.... sorry about that!!

I still sort of think of it as our 'nature' and not 'tied' to the FLESH, per say. THE FLESH profits NOTHING. It is our MIND that is being purged and purified, not our bodies.

Let me think on it some more, now that I think I understand better what you are asking.

Chrissie

[rocky]

You don't enter the fire until after you have been given 'life', right? Isn't that the case with those being judged NOW?

Oh wait... I see what you are saying.... those who are being judged now - having that 'carnal' nature burned out of them are still IN THE FLESH, IN "this body of death"

I see what you are asking now.... sorry about that!!

I still sort of think of it as our 'nature' and not 'tied' to the FLESH, per say. THE FLESH profits NOTHING. It is our MIND that is being purged and purified, not our bodies.

Let me think on it some more, now that I think I understand better what you are asking.

Chrissie

yeah, i think u see what is confusing me.  I just don't see how the carnal mind (yes to me that is what needs purging/destroyed) can exist without a flesh body as in Genesis 2 (soul=body plus spirit/breath).    

If raised to life, a quickening spirit, then mind of Christ we should have???

[chrissiela]

If that were the case, though, wouldn't it be true even now. If all it took was being 'given life' then wouldn't we instantly have the mind of Christ as soon as Christ revealed Himself to us - evenwhile IN the flesh. Surely the mind of Christ can overcome even the flesh, right?

It would probably KILL us if we went straight from DEATH to the "perfect man"...  :lol:  :lol:

He's got to wake us up SLOWLY!!!  :wink:

Chrissie

[rocky]

If that were the case, though, wouldn't it be true even now. If all it took was being 'given life' then wouldn't we instantly have the mind of Christ as soon as Christ revealed Himself to us - evenwhile IN the flesh. Surely the mind of Christ can overcome even the flesh, right?

It would probably KILL us if we went straight from DEATH to the "perfect man"...  :lol:  :lol:

He's got to wake us up SLOWLY!!!  :wink:

Chrissie

those are good questions, ones i struggle with?  but i can't seem to shed this thot that our carnal mind is seperate from the soilish man, one that satan feeds on (eat dust).  

I have thot to myself, well satan is carnal, and he is spirit not flesh; as one way to reconcile this, and satan is thrown into the lake of fire.  But satan was created this way from the beginning, and I don't think satan has zoopio sp? life)  

I've often thot that maybe John 5 re: resurrection to judgment is a different resurrection than described in I Corinth 15 (ie: maybe for believers only) and why I even asked in the first post, maybe some can be raised terrestrial, not celestial??