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Futility of Witnessing to Babylon
ScarletWren:
Yes,
I was so excited when I finally understood that God was going to save EVERYONE!!! I thought, wow, what a wonderful, loving Father He truly is, someone I don't have to fear other than the necessary discipline for my stubborn, willful, selfish pursuits. I didn't rush right out to tell anyone but when I had the chance, while talking to first one sister, then the other about this life-altering discovery, I was floored at the resentment and incredible resistance I received from them. My one sister actually thought I thought I was some special person like Paul or something and greatly deceived. I was so disappointed that they couldn't at least say they could see a glimmer of truth in it. Even my brother-in-law who is pretty much of an agnostic thought it was absolutely ridiculous to believe there wasn't a hell for the wicked people of the earth. Wow, I always cringed at the thought of ANYONE, even a Hitler or Jeffrey Dahmer, Stalin, Ghengis Khan or Saddam Hussein to spend one whole day being tortured by flames, let alone a kind buddhist. I guess some people like the idea of it, not saying my sisters do but, good golly, lol.
Next I was making the rounds of some Christian forums. I was in a ladies group a short time, reading their typically orthodox views even though they thought they were quite liberal. After awhile they wanted to know what I thought. I told them I didn't think they would enjoy what my opinions were but they said they were open-minded and willing to listen to any differing views. But when I just put a few of my opinions in a post, wow, did they become viscious!!! Suddenly I was a vile heretic doomed to suffer eternal agonies in a hell I don't believe in!!! I was really bummed out for the first few years that I didn't have anyone to share with other than a few people online, though that did help. I have since gone through an agonizing divorce and now have a bf who is a "recovering Catholic" in his words, who has some similar beliefs though he hasn't investigated it deeply.
Sometimes, I ALMOST wish I hadn't made this discovery. In some ways there was much more comfort in believing with the majority in a church family. But, something kept harping at my mind, telling me that what was being said about baptism (that's where it started anyway) and losing one's salvation wasn't quite kosher. I searched but found no real satisfaction till I cried out to God and asked for Him to help to know Him and how He felt about us (the world). That's when I started being directed to sites that made scales fall from my eyes. He took me through a long journey, first dealing with small matters, such as the baptism and impossibility of losing salvation. Then I started learning about types and shadows of the Old Testament which is fascinating. I was a Calvinist for awhile I guess, but it just didn't seem to be the Father's heart to torture so much of mankind and that's when the blinders came off about "hell".
That was almost 5 years ago and I doubt I've made much of a difference in anyone's belief system but I am much more content in my own soul. And a great relief over other people's soul has replaced the concern over never really being able to witness with any degree of success. Now I know that God has it all planned out in his own time.
I still have a lot to learn, I may even change my mind about current doctrinal positions, but I can't imagine that I would EVER go back to thinking that our own free will saves or condemns us or that God planned that there would be some that would be forever annihilated or tortured. How could those in heaven ever be happy with loved ones enduring that fate, and if we forget everything that happened on this earth, what good was it to endure it all to begin with?
Peace
WhoAmI:
I recall when I was much younger and in High School, I was reading a small booklet that was sent to me in the mail by an Evangelical pastor saying how we would look down from heaven on all the people we meet in life that did not hear about Jesus and were in hell now. And we would feel responsible because we would be listening to their screams and cries and we could have witnessed to them but we did not. ??? :(
How amazing after your eyes are open how you can see how they totally destroy any compatibility with the scriptures with just a couple sentences.
Jeff
Kent:
--- Quote from: hillsbororiver on October 04, 2008, 10:54:17 AM ---There are some interesting verses in Ezekiel that perhaps pertain to the futility we often experience when attempting to share the truths we have come to see with those who are still in the clutches of Babylon.
--- End quote ---
I don't see it that way.
Does Ray witness to those still in Babylon? Would anyone consider his efforts to be futile?
I have heard his audios, and I really recommend them. They help a lot! The ones on freewill are especially good.
In them, he is quite harsh to those still in churchianity.
Maybe "harsh" is not the right word. Let's say he gets right in their faces and does not back down. In my opinion, that is something to keep in mind.
He goes toe to toe with them, and in the process he helps us learn. There is nothing futile about it. When we go toe to toe with others, it helps other people learn, by the foolishness of our "preaching". It also helps us to learn.
The "futility" part is in changing the other persons mind. But we aren't called to do that, are we? That is not our job. He said His Word does not return void. I have faith that this is true, even if I dont see the results myself, in this life.
Peace
;)
Beloved:
The problem as I see it is semantics
Witness is such a loaded term....it was coined in Babylon and it carries the Babylonians theory of Free will. That we by telling them the Gospel that we will be ale to convince them of its validity because we stand as a witness for it. (reminds me of ...Ye who has no sin cast the first stone)and that they can choose to believe it.
We are however called to rebuke. That is presenting God's Word when what is being said is in error . But Gods Word stands on its own. We are just messangers and not analysts or commentators. If there eyes and ears are receptive conversation is possible, if they are not open then only debate can occur.
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
Tit 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
Most of what we do is with believers . As a messanger , we are told to expect tribulation just like Jesus did when he confronted the religious and righteous. They cannot bear the truth. Ray really irritates them because they cannot deal with the Truth. Many of us only have small audiences that we have to contend with and we are often afraid to deal with the rejection. As we become stronger in the Word and Christ works in us, we will need to be bolder.
Perhaps there is some knowledge when we are told Michael said to satan The Lord rebuke you...when we are confronting false doctrines we have to remind ourselves not to take on a role of superiority but humbleness.
beloved
Akira329:
I would like to add something if I could,
Gal 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
Gal 1:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Gal 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
Gal 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
Gal 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
Seems Paul waited
Again we have this:
Gal 2:1 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.
Gal 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain
It seems Paul did a lot of moving around and conferring with fellow brethren before he went and preach.
My two cents
Antaiwan
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