2008 Nashville Conference
Saturday morning part #1:
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nash08ConfSession1.mp3Saturday morning part #2:
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nash08ConfSession2.mp3Saturday morning part #3:
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nash08ConfSession3.mp3Saturday morning part #4:
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nash08ConfSession4.mp3Saturday morning part #5:
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nash08ConfSession5.mp3Saturday morning part #6:
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nash08ConfSession6.mp3#1 audio
Let me ask a general question. How many believe that the earth is about 6,000 to 10,000 or 20,000 years old and that God did create it that long ago in six, what we would call solar, 24-hour periods or days? How many think that is probably closer to the truth? Any one? Are you afraid to raise your hand? So you believe that?
[Someone’s comment: Well that’s what I’ve been taught.] So you’re not quite sure now? [Right.] Okay, well that’s good. How many believe for sure that the earth is maybe millions or billions of years old and that it’s creation took million or billions of years? Okay, pretty close to half or a third.
How many believe that the flood was a world wide flood, described in Genesis 7? How many believe it was maybe a very large flood, but a regional flood some place? How many don’t care one way or the other?
Well, a pretty good many years ago I saw things in Genesis. I knew this was a big subject and not one that I wanted to tactile until I had made certain progress in other areas.
The ‘Lake of Fire’ is kind of my signature articles I guess, along with a few others. I put ‘You Fools, You Hypocrites, You Snakes’ as the number one article, because I think it personifies my unique approach to the Scriptures more than anything that I have written. Then we put the ‘Towers’ paper right up front there too. Because it’s a kind of timely issue now with the so called war on terrorism and all of that.
So I have had other priorities for some years. But I knew for some time that the 24-hour creation days were probably not what the Scriptures were talking about. Even going back like five years some of you will remember me speaking at some of the conferences about Adam and Eve. I just have never believed, in many years, that Adam was created in the afternoon on the sixth, of a 24-hour period, then his wife was created an hour and a half later or something. God had said two or three times that “it is not good for man to be alone.” What? When I go to work in the morning I’m away from my wife for eight hours. I mean that is three or four times longer than he would have been away from Eve, if she was created before sunset. Well does that make sense?
He created Adam to dress and keep and cultivate the garden, long before He made Eve. He brought all of the animals to him to study and to name. I wouldn’t doubt if some of the Hebrew names for some of those animals still reflect Adam naming them.
It’s interesting, because when I was doing a study on ‘Was there death before Adam’s fall,’ the names of certain birds of prey means to devour. That’s what the word means, the name of the animal means to devour. Of course that shoots a hole in the theory that there was no death before Adam’s fall. Because we’ve got animals that were devouring… not grapes, they were devouring other birds or other animals.
So I knew Eve came along I think years, certainly years… three, four, five or ten years after God formed Adam He formed Eve. That’s why it says in the Hebrew that when Adam saw her… here it says in the King James.
Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones…
No, that is not what it said.
Gen 2:23 And the man said, This now
at last is bone from my bones… (LITV)
“At last” is the connotation of that in Hebrew. Finally, that’s what it means. Adam said to God, ‘finally someone for me!’ “At last!” Okay. The English loses a lot. He wouldn’t have said that if she was made just two hours earlier.
The “evening and the morning,” I knew that evening carried a connotation much deeper than the setting of the sun. And that morning carried a much more significant spiritual, symbolic meaning than the rising of the sun. When it says.
Gen 1:5 …And coming is it to be evening and coming to be morning, day one. (CLV)
Then there was some other things too. When I am studying some of the words more carefully it says;
Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to
grow … (KJV)
That word is sprout or to bud out of the ground. See the conventional thinking is that God created these trees with fruit hanging on it, so that 72 hours later Adam and Eve could be picking fruit and eating. But no, sprouting, He’s sprouting trees in the garden. How long does it take a fruit tree to product good fruit? At least three years.
Where it says, Eve said to a serpent.
Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
What fruit? I mean if God started vegetation to start growing the third day and here they are at the sixth day and they’ve got fruit? How do you get fruit to grow in 72 hours? You have a major problem there. Then more recently, this past year, when I started studying this more deeply I saw more things.
Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the
ground.
That’s not the word erets - earth, that word ground - adamah means soil, “to till the soil.” It takes thousands and thousands of years to make soil. You might say, ‘well God just made some soil to begin with.’ But that is not how it is made. You can say He did it, you can say He took a short cut and made soil. Soil has organic material in it, any where from 5% to 15%, but all soil that grows anything has organic matter in it. How do you have organic matter in the soil on the sixth day... No, excuse me, you’ve got to go back to the third day really, when stuff was growing. There was no soil.
Listen to this. It is amazing when you look and you know what you are looking for.
Gen 2:11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
v. 2 And the gold of that land is good:
This is on the day that God made man, three verses later… what gold? How could there be gold there? Where does gold come from? Gold comes from, out of the earth, in volcanoes. Everything comes out of the earth, copper, tin, iron, sulfur, gold, silver it all comes out of the earth. It’s not laying around on top of the earth, it came ‘out’ of the earth.
On this poster we have geography terms, we have mountain, volcano, tundra, cannon, plateau, mesa, bad lands, hills, valley, lake, river, marsh, iceberg, ocean, bay, sound, cape, peninsula, prairie, cliff, dune, beach, desert, strait, gulf, plain, swamp, waterfall, channel, delta, sea, isthmus, island, lagoon. Those are geography terms of the topography of the earth.
Back in Genesis one and two and three and four and five and six, how many of these features were on the earth? Any comments or ideas? [comment from someone: all of them?] How many of these features would you find on the earth? Two. Actually in verses two, three, four, five and six you would have one feature, ocean or sea. By the third day you would have two features, the sea and the earth or the land.
Gen 1:9 …and let the dry
land appear: and it was so.
God said “let the dry appear,” the dry land. So there was dry and wet. That’s all that there was, dry and wet. Volcanoes take a long time to develop. God didn’t create mountains, directly. The earth creates mountains. You see when there is plate tectonics and it pushes… you can see how my pages crumples up there, we’re making mountains. That’s how mountains are made.
God didn’t say that He made each one of these features in Genesis one. It’s a very simple outline. Plateau and mesa and desert… did God create deserts in the creation week? We know what brings about deserts. We know what brings about islands… volcanoes. The Hawaiian islands, they have been building for millions and millions of years.
So except for two, wet and dry, these features did not exist during the creation week, not until later on.
Now after verse eleven in there where it says and let there be green plants.
Gen 1:11 And God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth." And it was so. (ESV)
Then the earth could start going through any and all of these phases from then on, over a period of billions of years or a least a couple of billion years.
So I had a problem with the soil and the gold. There wouldn’t have been gold there. Gold has to first be erupted out of volcanoes and then to see it, it’s got to be eroded away. It’s the same way with soil. Soil is the erosion of mountains, that’s what soil is.
I get a kick out of young earths, sometimes they contradict each other so dramatically that it’s a hoot. They say, ‘well if the earth is billions of years old, why wouldn’t the whole earth just have twenty mile high mountains from all these volcanoes?’ You know they keep piling on and piling on and if that had been going on for three or four million years these mountains would be twenty miles high from these volcanoes.
But then another young earth group says, ‘if the earth is million and billions of year old how come everything has not eroded into the sea?’ What? One says, ‘how come it hasn’t kept going up and up and up.’ And the other says, ‘how come it hasn’t gone down and down and down?’ You can’t have it both ways. The fact of the matter is both are happening. It’s always building up, mountain chains are always crumpling up. The erosion is always eroding away, so there is a equilibrium.
It’s like the salt in the ocean. Humphreys and some of these guys with their salt in the ocean, it’s just the dumbest theory. But they caught on to something that is just a little technical… you know most young earth people that follow this stuff they are not technological minded and they just eat it up. Then a real scientist comes along and just blows it out of the sky.
So I knew that there was problems with Genesis, if we were going to take the fundamentalist approach to this thing.
I found an email about two months ago and I didn’t even know I had it anymore. I read it twice and I thought where did I get that? But I thought it was kind of interesting, so I thought, I’m going to use that at the conference. This is someone that sent me an email that was sent to him, so this person sends me this.
Ray,
Pat _____ just sent this to me. Answerstogenesis.org is the organization that I mentioned to you, it is in California. I thought you might find this worth your while to help you except the truth of Exodus 20:11. ---------
Okay lets just turn there. He thought that I didn’t except the truth of this verse and he was saying, maybe this will open your mind up Ray and at last you will be able to except the truth of Exodus 20:11.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Well there it is, we work six days and rest the seventh, just as God worked six 24-hour solar days and rested the seventh. He said maybe this will help you except the truth of that. Oh really.
Now here is the part that Pat wrote;
I thought I would share this with you after our phone discussion on the subject of old earth verses young earth. Jay Wiley is a good friend of mine and a scientist with a PhD in nuclear chemistry. He is a former Indiana State professor and has written several books on science related subject as well as a home school science curriculum.
I emailed him stating, if the earth is young, science should bear out Scripture and vise versa, which it does. I see that more clearly now. I apologize for my corner of doubt that I related to you, regarding resent articles I had read describing an older earth. I have a hard time understanding time and numbers with God.
Perhaps Ray would be interested in what Jay has to say. He leaves room for a change in his theology if science can prove an old earth. But at this time I see that is not the case.
Thanks,
Pat---------
Well they will have their day in court. So then here is the message that Pat got from Dr. Wiley that he sent to this person and then he sent it on to me.
Hi Pat,
Thanks for your email. It was good to hear from you. I am indeed a young earther, because I do think that science points that way. I can incorporate a young earth into my theology, because I think science clearly points to a young earth. Here are my top five (5) arguments for a young earth.
1) Earth’s magnetic field. To date the only theory that can correctly predict the magnetic field of planet earth in the solar system is the rapid decay theory by Dr. Russell Humphreys. He was even able to correctly predict magnetic fields of two planets, that magnetic fields that had not been measured. When the measurement were made his theory was the only one that was right. In addition his theory predict (although Mars has no magnetic field now, it should have had one in the past) the famous Mars rock that is supposedly to have shown evidence for life on Mars, actually indicates at one time that Mars did have a magnetic field. The rapid decay theory requires a earth younger than 10,000 years.
2) Helium in the atmosphere. The compelling idea about this technique is that there are no unknown pathways for escape of helium. Due to it’s chemical inertness. All old earthers who have studied it recognize that helium issue as a big problem.
References:
McDonald, ‘Escaped Helium From the Atmosphere.
Chambers…
Joseph Donald, the Theory Of Planetary Atmosphere.
Gladimere (Ray’s comment: of course that is one of their own people)
The Age Of The Earth Atmosphere.
The study of The Helium Flux Through The Atmosphere, from the Institute for Creation Research.
3) Helium in Zircons. Once again, there is no way to see any other means by which helium can be created or leave rocks. In the amount of helium, zircons indicate extremely young rock. Reference - Gentry. (Ray’s comment: He gives Gentry as a reference, although Gentry does not say that at all. He uses him as a reference just to pull out something that he wants, but that doesn’t back up his theory.)
4) Dendrochronology. Still the most accurate dating technique known. You just can not find dendrochronological sequence older than 20,000 years, with the inherent problem of double and triple rings, this number is clearly too large.
5) Sodium in the Ocean. This one has been studied until the time of Newton. We have identified all inlets and outlets of sodium and even if the ocean was originally fresh water, there is no way to understand why it has such little salinity in an old earth.---------
So there it is, this guy is a physicist or whatever, has a PhD in physical chemistry or whatever. There are his five things. Do they sound convincing? Do they sound scientific? I mean first he starts off with Dr. Humphreys (he’s got a legitimate degree), works at Los Alamos the federal government project there. There is five of them, but if the earth is old those five don’t stand and those five are scientific… or are they. We’ll take a little look at that later.
What I want to talk about next for a little bit, is where is the authority for the teachings, doctrines and theories of a young earth and a global flood? Who are the authorities? Because if you are going to argue from a scientific perspective, beginning with cosmology and astrology and bringing it down to geology, then of course the Scripture too… who is qualified to argue these things? Is there some area of expertise that represents all of the young earth advocates of the world? Does anybody know? [Comment from someone: the church?] No, the church knows very little in these areas.
See if you are going to talk about earth geology being the result of Noah’s flood and that the Grand Canyon strata was laid down in Noah’s flood, you have to be at least a geologist even to attempt to explain how those layers were or were not laid down.
Well there is a source. If you go to the internet you will find links where they teach all these theories that the earth is young, the flood is global and God created everything in six literal solar 24-hour days. The most preeminent of them all is a site called ‘Answers In Genesis.’ This is the one my friend had given me in the email, he said, ‘this is the one I told you about Ray, here is where it is all at.’
‘Answers In Genesis’ is headed by a number of reputable scientist. Now many of the scientist are pseudoscientist or fraudulent fake scientist in that area of young earth creationalism. And they do not have legitimate degrees at all. But Dr. Steven Austin has a PhD in Geology at Pennsylvania State University. Dr. John Boomgardener has a PhD in Geo Physics and Space Science. These are pretty advanced fields of study.
Eugene Chaffin has a PhD Theoretical Physics.
Don DeYoung has a PhD in Physics.
Dr. Russell Humphreys has a PhD in Physics.
Andrew Snelling has a PhD in Physics.
These are from Iowa State, Penn. State, University of Sydney.
Larry Vardiman has PhD in Atmospheric Science at Colorado State University.
Now these are reputable scientist and I would not disparage their knowledge of sciences and physics and geology, not at all. But what I will do is I will destroy their credibility. It isn’t that I personally am going to destroy their credibility, I’m going to pass on to you where they have already destroyed their own credibility. I believe every one of these (with the exception of maybe one or two, but for the most part I think I have read enough on all of these), I think they bend the truth, twist the truth and fabricate stuff that doesn’t exist. They’ll use information that’s legitimate, that will help their cause and reject others that contradict it and they will on occasion lie. Now when we are done with these, we are going to see how much credibility they have.
This is the supreme council of young earth advocates on this earth, there is no one higher. No one comes ahead of these men in promoting or explaining young earth theory, no one. Anybody that has come up with anything on their own, be it some Doctor of physics in Russia, I’ll guarantee you in the last twenty years or more some one has come across it and it is filtered through Answers in Genesis or one of their publications. So this is the source. There is no one out side of these people and their affiliates that has any credible for a young earth and a global flood. No one that I know of.
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Topic: Nashville Conference 2008 - audio #1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 (Read 38429 times)