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Author Topic: Jesus says  (Read 6111 times)

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tinknocker

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Jesus says
« on: September 27, 2008, 05:50:48 AM »

This is a good verse to use when discussing will Jesus save all. Ask them what this verse means?

John 10:16
       
But I have other sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock, one  shepherd.


Blessings
tinknocker
« Last Edit: September 27, 2008, 05:53:04 AM by tinknocker »
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Jesus says
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2008, 05:56:24 AM »

I'll play.  Maybe we can sharpen some iron here.

"He's referring to the Gentiles, as His own people have rejected him."

It really is true everywhere you look, though, isn't it?
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

tinknocker

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Re: Jesus says
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2008, 01:57:44 PM »

I'll play.  Maybe we can sharpen some iron here.

"He's referring to the Gentiles, as His own people have rejected him."

It really is true everywhere you look, though, isn't it?

So glad you came out to play ;D and yes it is!

First let's remember that God's word "Is,Was, and Will be". This means it has the same application now as when He spoke those words.

In John 10:14 He qualifies His sheep;

Joh 10:14  "I am the good shepherd. I know My own sheep, and they know Me, (Is that not the Elect?)

Joh 10:27  My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me. (Those that hear His voice are His sheep)

 Which flock is Jesus safely bringing in now (The choosen, Elect)

But Jesus is confirming that He will bring the rest, His other flock, and at some point there will be one Sheperd and one flock

tinknocker
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gmik

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Re: Jesus says
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2008, 02:00:49 PM »

Wow.  That is a good one.  Years ago I thought He was talking aliens!! :o :D
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tinknocker

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Re: Jesus says
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2008, 02:19:36 PM »

Wow.  That is a good one.  Years ago I thought He was talking aliens!! :o :D

LOL
Not that long ago I thought the same thing

tinknocker
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eggi

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Re: Jesus says
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2008, 06:24:01 AM »

I've seen that idea about aliens as well. Found a website once saying that the aliens envied man's incredible spiritual power. Wow! Do we really have an INCREDIBLE spiritual power? Supposedly, the only reason they hesitated to invade planet Earth was because they were scared of our incredible brains. The website was loaded with diagrams and drawings explaining this, and the owner of it claimed to have been contacted by these alien races, and they had told him these things.

Why would they tell him their weaknesses? I wonder... From where do they get it?

We see the salvation of all in John 10:16 - but not all, believe me, I used that verse - and it's really talking about Israel and the Gentiles - but certainly not ALL!
 ;D

God bless you,
Eirik
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Here’s how to tell if you have faith; how do you live… what do you do… what do you accomplish in life… what are your goals… What is there about you that proves that you have this faith and belief inside of you? What?

Douglas Wayne Thomas

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Re: Jesus says
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2008, 06:49:11 AM »

Eirik - I have a question; if you are not a Jew then are you not a gentile? Are there any other kind of people in God's eyes? Just wondering.

Douglas
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frecklegirl417

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Re: Jesus says
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2008, 11:20:26 AM »

I went back and read all of chapter 10, thank you very much for opening my eyes more. If you read:

John 10:7THERFORE JESUS SAID AGAIN: "MOST TRULY I SAY  TO YOU, I AM THE DOOR OF THE SHEEP." v8 "ALL THOSE THAT HAVE COME IN PLACE OF ME ARE THIEVES AND PLUNDERS; BUT THE SHEEP HAVE NOT LISTENED TO THEM. v9 IAM THE DOOR; WHOEVER ENTERS THROUGH ME WILL BE SAVED, AND HE WILL GO IN AND OUT AND FIND PASTURAGE. v10 THE THIEF DOES NOT COME UNLESS IT IS TO STEAL AND SLAY AND DESTROY. I HAVE COME THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE LIFE AND MIGHT HAVE IT IN ABUNDANCE.

We all went out and used the pasture but we also heard are Shepperd call us back. If I understood these verses right. Jesus is our Shepperd and he has called all of His sheep to him. The BT family here, if I understood this right, have all come to His door and HE opened it for us.

Thank you for opening my eyes more. If I misunderstood all this please tell me, I will not be upset. I am just learning how to walk with the blinders off and the ear muffs.

                                     With God's Love and Understanding,
                                                  Pam
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tinknocker

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Re: Jesus says
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2008, 03:05:38 PM »


We see the salvation of all in John 10:16 - but not all, believe me, I used that verse - and it's really talking about Israel and the Gentiles - but certainly not ALL!
 ;D  

Good morning Erick,

At least it's morning here in California. Let's back up a little here and review some of what Ray has been teaching us. Let's start with this remembering Jesus words are spirit and to understood spiritually;

Ezekiel 18:4
Look, every life belongs to Me. The life of the father is like the life of the son--both belong to Me. The person who sins is the one who will die.

Every life belongs to Him - all are part of the flock. How did He get them?

2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, and will bring swift destruction on themselves.

He purchased them - they are His - all have been bought

Romans 2:28-29    
For a person is not a Jew who is one outwardly, and true circumcision is not something visible in the flesh. 29  On the contrary, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart--by the Spirit, not the letter. His praise is not from men but from God.

Romans 9:6-8  
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7  Neither are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants. On the contrary, in Isaac your seed will be called. 8  That is, it is not the children by physical descent who are God's children, but the children of the promise are considered seed.

Galatians 3:29  
And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, heirs according to the promise.

1 Peter 2:9-10    
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for His possession, so that you may proclaim the praises of the One who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. 10  Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

These verses tell us who are Jews and who are the Nation of Israel.

So when you said this is talking about Jews and Gentiles you were correct, but it's not physical Jews and Gentiles it's spiritural Jews and Gentiles

Blessings
Tom


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Phil3:10

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Re: Jesus says
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2008, 03:28:51 PM »

Tinknocker,
Verse 16 of John 10 to me is perhaps one of the greatest attestations of universal salvation. Did not CHRIST come to save the whole world? Verse 27 through 30 does explain that HIS sheep hear HIS voice, HE knows them and they follow HIM.  Verse 28 and 29 goes on to say that no one can pluck them out of the FATHER'S hand. GOD'S chosen/very elect are HIS special ones and the number is few.
What I think is that CHRIST is saying in verse 16 is that HE must also bring those that hear not HIS voice into HIS fold and there shall be one fold, and one Shepard.  I don't see this as aliens but as those who do not yet know HIM.  Remember that every knee shall bow and that every tongue shall confess the HE is LORD. Just my humble opinion.
Phil3:10
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tinknocker

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Re: Jesus says
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2008, 07:53:07 PM »

Phil3:10
Yes and what a great promise that is given here "no one can pluck us from His hand"

Thank You Father
tinknocker
« Last Edit: September 28, 2008, 08:44:08 PM by tinknocker »
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eggi

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Re: Jesus says
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2008, 05:57:17 PM »

Eirik - I have a question; if you are not a Jew then are you not a gentile? Are there any other kind of people in God's eyes? Just wondering.

Douglas

Hi Douglas!

I wasn't saying that this verse isn't talking about all categories of men (Jew AND Gentile). To me that is very clear. I was referring to the fact that I used this verse to prove to someone that the Jews were part of Jesus' flock as well, EVEN if they now had been rejected. It was that other person who told me that not ALL sheep in the two flocks will be saved. He said: "Yes, there will be ONE flock, but it will not include ALL, just SOME Jews, and SOME Gentiles."

Sorry if I was unclear about that. :)

God bless you,
Eirik
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Here’s how to tell if you have faith; how do you live… what do you do… what do you accomplish in life… what are your goals… What is there about you that proves that you have this faith and belief inside of you? What?

aqrinc

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Re: Jesus says
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2008, 01:58:20 AM »

Hi eggi,

I have been listening to and reading this from Ray: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5605.0.html
it clears up for me at least the question of (All Being Saved).

George.  ;D

Just a taste: September 2, 2007 Bible Study

                        DOES ALL MEAN ALL?

       DOES SCRIPTURE PROVE GOD WILL SAVE EVERYONE ?

You will notice that I did not say, does scripture ‘say’ God will save all.  There is a reason for that.  I know all of us here believe God will save all of humanity.  I know we all believe that fervently and we base it on the scriptures. 
But today I’m going to play, not the devil’s advocate, but the theologian’s advocate.  I want you first of all to give me some scriptures that state emphatically that God will save everybody.
Okay 1 Tim 4:10, let’s turn there and I’m going to play the theologian’s advocate and we’ll see what we come up with.  This is the verse we have at the bottom of Bible-truths.com. 

 1 Tim 4:10  For to this we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 02:03:54 AM by aqr »
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Heidi

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Re: Jesus says
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2008, 05:39:07 AM »

I have been quietly collecting other not so well known scriptures (those not readily quoted here at BT), i.e. 1 Tim 2:4 etc.  I have been astounded at just how many I have seen so far in reading His word.  Here are just some (the tip of the iceberg):

Verses in the bible that confirms that salvation is for all:

1.   Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift (Son of God) came upon all men unto justification of life.

2.   1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.   This talking about physically and spiritual death for the chosen first , and then eventually for all.

3.   "I am the living Bread ... Now the Bread also, which I shall be giving for the sake of the life of the world IS MY FLESH" (John 6:51).

4.   "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is JESUS CHRIST. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, WOOD, HAY, STUBBLE; Every man’s work shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed BY FIRE; and the FIRE shall TRY EVERY MAN’S WORK of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be BURNED, he shall SUFFER LOSS; but [pay close attention to this BIG BUT] BUT HE HIMSELF [the one who had his works burned and consumed in God’s consuming fire] SHALL BE SAVED [What will save him?], yet so AS BY FIRE" (I Cor. 3:11-15)!!!

5.   "Because He [God] hath appointed a day, in which He will judge the world in RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Acts 17:31) this judgment in Revelation 20 IS that worldwide judgment spoken of in many prophecies. But is the purpose of this worldwide judgment to torture people by burning their flesh in real fire for all eternity? Is that HOW God judges in "righteousness"? Absolutely not. We just read where God burns up our fleshly WORKS, and this is "tormenting" for sure. But God does not torture our flesh for all eternity.

6.   Isa. 45:22-23 "Look unto me, and BE YE SAVED, ALL THE ENDS OF THE EARTH: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by Myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness [as in, ‘For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; Who WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth,’ I Tim. 2:3-4] , and shall not return, That unto me EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW, EVERY TONGUE SHALL SWEAR" (See also: Phil. 2: 9-11 & I Cor. 12:3).

7.   "But He [God] is in ONE MIND, and who can TURN HIM? And what His soul desires [I Tim. 2:4 & Isa. 46:9-11], EVEN THAT [whatever He wills or desires] HE DOES" (Job 23:13).

8.   1 Cor 5:4-5...in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ (you being gathered, and my spirit, together with the power of our Lord Jesus),
5 to give up such a one to Satan for the extermination of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


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eggi

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Re: Jesus says
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2008, 07:39:37 AM »

Yes, Heidi, as I was saying earlier - all these Scriptures talk about the salvation of all to US, but to those who don't believe them, they can always say that it's not referring to ALL, just to SOME/AS MANY AS. You could always try to explain, but many just don't want to listen to any explanations. I've been called an heretic myself, simply because I pointed out that God will save all. That's like the most offensive thing you could tell any Christian... ???

Now, in response to your Scriptures (I'm taking the side of someone who opposes our beliefs - THESE ARE NOT MY BELIEFS!):

1. The Gift is FREE - You have to accept the gift to have justification of life. If you don't freely receive it, you are condemned.
2. Yes, all will be made alive, some to joy and bliss in Heaven, and the rest will live in torture and pain in Hell.
3. Again, WE have to choose Jesus.
4. Only those who build upon the foundation of Jesus Christ will be saved by that fire. The rest will be tortured in real fire for all eternity.
5. God doesn't torture them, their own rejection of Jesus Christ will cause them to be tortured. They have a free will to choose their own destiny.
6. People are called from all the ends of the earth, but not all will believe and be saved. God desires to have all men saved, but not all will choose to be saved. Certainly, every knee will bow, and every tongue will say that Jesus is Lord, but they will only realize that when it's too late.
7. Surely, He does what He desires, but that doesn't mean that every man will listen.
8. The man referred to here was a Christian, so He could be saved by believing in Jesus Christ.

We should be so grateful that we can see the truth of the Scriptures, there are so many who just can't see it. We have been given so much!

God bless you all,
Eirik
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Here’s how to tell if you have faith; how do you live… what do you do… what do you accomplish in life… what are your goals… What is there about you that proves that you have this faith and belief inside of you? What?

Heidi

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Re: Jesus says
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2008, 07:57:46 AM »

I know your reply was just some play acting for the benefit of all....just to once again remind us just how blind we used to be (having had the same responses to the truth). 

I still can't help that it left me dumbfounded and yet again realising that it is only God that can lead any person to repentance.  How grateful I am of that having read the response.  I would not even know where to begin to answer some of those hypothetical questions back.......
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