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Author Topic: How deep has Ray’s teachings taken us?  (Read 17168 times)

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Richard D

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How deep has Ray’s teachings taken us?
« on: October 14, 2008, 04:18:43 PM »

In the Sermon on the Mount ,Jesus said that we are to love those who hate us and pray for those who despitefully use us and bless those who curse us.

I’ll be the first to admit these words of Jesus are beautiful. They are profound words to me. I know in my heart Jesus is asking me to do the impossible. May God strike me dead if I ever believe in my heart I can do what Jesus is asking of me.

I believe Jesus spoke these words to His listeners knowing not one of them could obey. Jesus spoke these words to show us our need of a savior.

I believe Ray’s teaching point this out. If I were in so called Christendom I would believe I could control my own destiny, I would believe I can ask Jesus into my life anytime I desire to,

I would also believe I can forgive who I wish and love those who I will. I would also believe in hell too. I believe as I understand in the capacity God grants me to understand I’ am not a free agent, I realize everything I think, do or say is given to me by God.

After reading Ray’s papers, I don’t believe I have the capability to do good. If I do good it’s because it was given me from above to do good for all good things come from God.

If I do evil it’s because I ‘am evil. Sure God has created causes to cause me to do evil but He himself did not do evil I did evil because without God I cannot do anything but evil.

God created good and evil and God uses evil for good but I understand now God also holds back evil also. What I mean is this, God holds all things together, if God were to remove His Spirit not from the universe but from human beings what would happen?

Not one does good no not one, all have gone astray. Inclination of mans heart is evil from early youth up. These are things I read in the bible.

I don’t want to think about what would transpire if God removed His Spirit from the human race.

Ray’s teaching on free will verses will goes so deep I could spend a lifetime studying this one subject alone.

These things I understand are only the surface of how God’s will affects my will down to the smallest detail of every day life.

Would you share your understanding on this with me? Does knowing this change our life? When people do things that seem strange to me or bother me, I find myself saying that one is fulfilling God’s purpose. God is causing that one to do this or that.

                                        In His Love. Richard.
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mharrell08

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Re: How deep has Ray’s teachings taken us?
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2008, 05:07:06 PM »

Would you share your understanding on this with me? Does knowing this change our life? When people do things that seem strange to me or bother me, I find myself saying that one is fulfilling God’s purpose. God is causing that one to do this or that.


Hello Richard,

I am not exactly sure what you mean. I believe I know which scriptures and/or Ray's teachings you are referring to but how about copying and pasting an excerpt?

Also, I noticed you have made that statement again, "What if God removed His spirit from the human race?" All things exist THROUGH HIM [Eph 1:11] so you cannot 'remove' God from any equation. God IS spirit [John 4:24] and also the Father of spirits [Heb 12:9].

Personally, I would love to discuss the scriptures and more of Ray's teachings. But, and please take no offense, it's kind of hard to follow you because it seems you're kinda all over the place. :)  I know it is from joy of hearing the gospel for the first time but we are still to maintain a 'pattern of sound words' [Titus 2:8; 2 Tim 1:13]


Thanks,

Marques
« Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 05:38:09 PM by mharrell08 »
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Richard D

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Re: How deep has Ray’s teachings taken us?
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2008, 05:56:45 PM »

Marques.


No offense taken Marques, what my meaning was by taking God out of the equation was simply there is nothing good about human beings in themselves. That was my point, it’s God who keep wickedness from running rampage.

Without God I believe we would all be pure evil without any good in us. This teaching of Ray’s concerning the fact we do not have free will goes very deep.

There is a part of me that says whatever people do it’s because God is sending causes that cause people to do the things they do, so knowing this I say when I see someone doing anything I say God is causing this one to do it. But as soon as I say that is God not causing me to say that or recognize He is behind it?

So knowing this, does anything change in one’s life except to know that everything is of God? Ray spoke about the King of Babylon thinking he has by his own power built a great city and by his own power conquered all who opposed him but this King was mistaken because it was God who had done these things.

Does this knowledge of our wills being subjected to Gods will change something about me? I will still fulfill God’s purpose whether I know this or not.

                                 In His Love. Richard.
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David

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Re: How deep has Ray’s teachings taken us?
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2008, 06:06:07 PM »

Quote
In the Sermon on the Mount ,Jesus said that we are to love those who hate us and pray for those who despitefully use us and bless those who curse us.

I’ll be the first to admit these words of Jesus are beautiful. They are profound words to me. I know in my heart Jesus is asking me to do the impossible. May God strike me dead if I ever believe in my heart I can do what Jesus is asking of me.

Hi Richard

Not only do I believe we can do these commandments from our Lord, we better be praying that we are doing them if we are to have any hope in the first resurrection at all. Of course, we can only do these things with Gods Spirit and grace (Divine intervention on the heart).

As for us not having freewill, personally I've never had a problem understanding it or accepting it, even before I was a Christian.
As children we're totally reliant on our parents, subject and answerable to their house rules. We're subject to rules in school and college. We're subject and answerable to the laws of the land all our lives.  We're subject to our employers. Subject to global political and economic forces we can do nothing about. Subject to Gods workings in terms of nature, climate, drought, famine etc.
Think about it, only the human state of mind is foolish and arrogant enough to believe that such tiny insignificant beings, in a minority compaired to most species on earth, occupying a spec of ground on this huge planet for a very brief amount of time, has a free will to do and choose as we see fit.
I understood this as a foolish agnostic, but never understood what our purpose was.
Now I know everything is of God, and what our purpose and the purpose of the creation is.
BTW, I agree with Marques. Take Gods spirit away and you have nothing, no human race, no earth, no universe.  

Quote
what my meaning was by taking God out of the equation was simply there is nothing good about human beings in themselves. That was my point, it’s God who keep wickedness from running rampage.

Without God I believe we would all be pure evil without any good in us.

Richard, with respect my freind you need to re think this statement. There is nothing good about us at all, and wickedness has always run rampage, especially now days. We are pure evil without any good in us, and its all of God. Have a read of Romans 3.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 06:11:12 PM by David »
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KristaD

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Re: How deep has Ray’s teachings taken us?
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2008, 06:19:44 PM »

there is nothing good about human beings in themselves. That was my point, it’s God who keep wickedness from running rampage.

Without God I believe we would all be pure evil without any good in us.
Without God we would not be anything. We would not exist, nothing would. I think that is what Marques is saying.


Does this knowledge of our wills being subjected to Gods will change something about me? I will still fulfill God’s purpose whether I know this or not.

Yes, it changes everything. You now know that everyone else is subject to His will, therefore it becomes easier to not judge people, including yourself. You also know that God is absolutely sovereign and that absolutely nothing is ever out of His control and His plan. You know your God now and that will change all kinds of things inside of you. Yes, you would've still fulfilled His purpose without knowing it if that had been His plan, but now that you do know it you know that knowing is part of His purpose for you.
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Richard D

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Re: How deep has Ray’s teachings taken us?
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2008, 07:34:04 PM »

David.

Thank you for responding. This is where Ray’s teachings are taking me, I notice you said you believe we can be doing these commandments of God and we better be doing them, I did notice you also said with God’s Spirit.

If I love God or if I obey God I might think to myself I ‘am doing these things and so I feel great about it. But the truth is I have absolutely nothing to do with it according to my understanding of Ray’s teaching on free will.

You could tell me about the first resurrection and about the second resurrection and ask me which one I choose and I would say David I choose the first resurrection but what I choose is irrelevant because it’s God who predestines us for one or the other. So I have nothing to do with it.

If I choose to obey Gods commandments it’s because God has cause me or inspired me or motivated me to obey and yet God does it through me so I have nothing to do with my obeying His commandments.

Ray’s teaching are taking me to this understanding, I’ am like a light bulb. I ‘am useless I can do nothing I can not light up the room, God is the electricity, when God moves in me I light up the room but its really God who lights up the room using me to accomplish this task.

Now this might sound like I’m a robot but I don’t feel like I’m a robot, this is how great God is because I feel like its me but its God pulling my invisible stings to do what His good pleasure is.

So there is no difference between the one in the first resurrection and the one in the second resurrection, the person in the first resurrection is no better than the person in the second resurrection except the first resurrection is the better of the two.

Why is there no difference in the two classes of people? All have sinned all have fallen short of the glory of God not one has done right.

God’s decision is what makes the difference. God will have mercy on who he will and will not. But either way nether group of people had anything to do with it. Otherwise one could boast.

This is my understanding from Ray’s teaching.

                                                   In His Love. Richard. 
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Richard D

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Re: How deep has Ray’s teachings taken us?
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2008, 07:49:31 PM »

KristaD.

That was a great point you have made when you said it does make a difference because now we know God causes these things so it helps us to not be so judgmental towards people .

Then I thought about that answer for a few minutes but find myself coming back to this no free will and what it means to me. According to my understanding from Ray’s papers I do not make my own decisions. I think I’m making my decisions but am I?  How can God control all things if everyone is making his or her own decision?

So if I’m not judgmental it’s because God is causing me not to be but if I’ am being judgmental it’s because God is causing me to be. Otherwise God could not be in complete control.

This is what I understand from Ray’s teachings. Do you also see it like this too.

                                                In His Love. Richard.   
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OBrenda

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Re: How deep has Ray’s teachings taken us?
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2008, 09:36:33 PM »

Hi Richard,

I enjoyed Krista's comments also, I think the differing is that Ray teaches that we do make our own choices 100's of them a day.  (However those choices are not free.  They are caused ~ because they are not free of consequence.)  It takes a long time to sort this out.  Your getting there!

So David is also right when we must be praying and doing them.  Evidence of the called is the fiery desire to return back to him/to be like him.  And we know it is not of ourselves the ability comes, but from our Creator!

We do not sit on the couch and say "What ever you want Lord it's up to you"

We jump out the door and search to find "What is your will for me to do"

And God puts that desire in us, so we can not boast!  Be we can delight in our service to him... ;D

This is how we sharpen iron with iron.  Asking and answering till we get to the "ah hah" moment.
If we just said o.k. with out responding back, we couldn't get at those cobwebs in the corner! ;)

Now...I hope I came close to grasping it correctly myself?  ???   LOL


Your Sis,
Brenda
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OBrenda

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Re: How deep has Ray’s teachings taken us?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2008, 09:48:56 PM »

Oh I almost forgot.

Brenda is Judgemental against pink People.

God causes Brenda to turn pink, and then understands what it's like to be Pink.
Brenda now sees differently and chooses to like pink people.  But God caused the humbling circumstanes for it to happen.
Because it was GOD'S  Will for it to happen.Not that Brenda was a homely child and He felt sorry for her. Or that she never said the "F-Word"

O.K.  I think I'm finished now...heehee
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Kat

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Re: How deep has Ray’s teachings taken us?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2008, 10:12:48 PM »


Hi Richard,

You are certainly on the right track.  But I thought I would give you a little more to add to what you are saying.

Quote
If I choose to obey Gods commandments it’s because God has cause me or inspired me or motivated me to obey and yet God does it through me so I have nothing to do with my obeying His commandments.

You absolutely do have something to do with the choices you make.  Everybody will be held accountable for their own actions, the Elect now and the rest later at the White Throne Judgment.  The causes that we are given are just a means to bring about the experiences we need to learn right from wrong.  God's sovereignty makes Him responsible, but we are accountable for the things we do.  Here is a email that helps explain this.

http://bible-truths.com/email11.htm#responsibility -------

My Question is: How then (or why) is it that if there is no such thing as free will, there is such a thing as accountability? For if God is in control of everything, and He has done everything "according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His Will" - then how can we be held accountable for the things that we "do"?

Respectfully,

Chris

[Ray Replies]

Dear Chris:

You ask how one is held "accountable" when he only did what he HAD to do? I actually do answer this in my paper, but let me relate it for you.  God has NOT given man 'free' will (the ability to make UNCAUSED choices), all of man's choices are CAUSED BY SOMETHING. But the man DOES MAKE THE CHOICES!

When you or I are confronted with a decision to either do something that we know is right, or know is wrong, we weight the options and MAKE THE CHOICE. God has absolutely given man a brain that has the ability to process information. Man CAN process information and make a choice. But it is the information itself the causes the choice one way or the other. The man cannot make a choice WITHOUT some form of information that influences or ultimately CAUSES him to make a choice. NO ONE MAKES US MAKE THE CHOICE, even other unforeseen circumstances and information DOES MAKE OR CAUSE US TO CHOOSE!  True, circumstances beyond our control, which we do not see or even perceive, do cause us to MAKE a choice, but ... BUT, IN OUR OWN HEART AND MIND, WE MAKE THE CHOICE -- not someone else or something else.

But "it's all GOD" Who is ACTUALLY doing it, isn't it? NO, YOU, ACTUALLY, ARE THE ACTIVE PARTICIPANT WHO IS DOING IT! God merely brings about the circumstances that INFLUENCE AND CAUSE YOU TO DO IT! 

Now then, pay close attention to what I am saying:  Why are we held accountable for something that we absolutely COULD NOT HAVE AVOIDED?  Why?   Because at the time we made the 'voluntary' (not absolutely 'FREE,' but 'voluntary') CHOICE, it was in OUR heart and in OUR mind to DO SO. And if the choice was WRONG, or SINFUL, then WE, not GOD, must be held accountable. God takes the "responsibility" for what we did -- hence He DIED ON A CROSS FOR US, but WE are accountable for our SINFUL WRONG CHOICES.

This is the only way man will LEARN right from wrong! Adam and Eve were 'TOLD' right from wrong, but not until they actually 'EXPERIENCED' right and wrong, did it make sense to them.  IT IS WRONG TO SIN WHETHER WE WERE COERCED TO COMMIT SIN OR NOT.   "The DEVIL MADE me do it." It matters not, YOU DID IT and are therefore accountable.

Juveniles commit MILLIONS of crimes and sins for which they are not RESPONSIBLE. But, nonetheless, our own court system HOLDS THEM ACCOUNTABLE. And even human, carnal, judges take this factor into consideration when handing out penalties.

It is the PENALTY that also CAUSES US TO CHOOSE RIGHTLY after we have chosen WRONGLY! When we burn our fingers on a hot stove, we LEARN to not touch a hot stove.

God has developed a "ways and means" to accomplish His righteous end, plan, and purpose. And God's ways are VERY WISE -- they WORK, and they work very well!  We have this absolute promise from God:

"When Thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world, WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9)!!!

God be with you,
Ray

« Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 10:15:45 PM by Kat »
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: How deep has Ray’s teachings taken us?
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2008, 10:39:39 PM »


Hi Richard,

You are certainly on the right track.  But I thought I would give you a little more to add to what you are saying.

Quote
If I choose to obey Gods commandments it’s because God has cause me or inspired me or motivated me to obey and yet God does it through me so I have nothing to do with my obeying His commandments.

You absolutely do have something to do with the choices you make.  Everybody will be held accountable for their own actions, the Elect now and the rest later at the White Throne Judgment.  The causes that we are given are just a means to bring about the experiences we need to learn right from wrong.  God's sovereignty makes Him responsible, but we are accountable for the things we do.  Here is a email that helps explain this.

http://bible-truths.com/email11.htm#responsibility -------

My Question is: How then (or why) is it that if there is no such thing as free will, there is such a thing as accountability? For if God is in control of everything, and He has done everything "according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His Will" - then how can we be held accountable for the things that we "do"?

Respectfully,

Chris

[Ray Replies]

Dear Chris:

You ask how one is held "accountable" when he only did what he HAD to do? I actually do answer this in my paper, but let me relate it for you.  God has NOT given man 'free' will (the ability to make UNCAUSED choices), all of man's choices are CAUSED BY SOMETHING. But the man DOES MAKE THE CHOICES!

When you or I are confronted with a decision to either do something that we know is right, or know is wrong, we weight the options and MAKE THE CHOICE. God has absolutely given man a brain that has the ability to process information. Man CAN process information and make a choice. But it is the information itself the causes the choice one way or the other. The man cannot make a choice WITHOUT some form of information that influences or ultimately CAUSES him to make a choice. NO ONE MAKES US MAKE THE CHOICE, even other unforeseen circumstances and information DOES MAKE OR CAUSE US TO CHOOSE!  True, circumstances beyond our control, which we do not see or even perceive, do cause us to MAKE a choice, but ... BUT, IN OUR OWN HEART AND MIND, WE MAKE THE CHOICE -- not someone else or something else.

But "it's all GOD" Who is ACTUALLY doing it, isn't it? NO, YOU, ACTUALLY, ARE THE ACTIVE PARTICIPANT WHO IS DOING IT! God merely brings about the circumstances that INFLUENCE AND CAUSE YOU TO DO IT! 

Now then, pay close attention to what I am saying:  Why are we held accountable for something that we absolutely COULD NOT HAVE AVOIDED?  Why?   Because at the time we made the 'voluntary' (not absolutely 'FREE,' but 'voluntary') CHOICE, it was in OUR heart and in OUR mind to DO SO. And if the choice was WRONG, or SINFUL, then WE, not GOD, must be held accountable. God takes the "responsibility" for what we did -- hence He DIED ON A CROSS FOR US, but WE are accountable for our SINFUL WRONG CHOICES.

This is the only way man will LEARN right from wrong! Adam and Eve were 'TOLD' right from wrong, but not until they actually 'EXPERIENCED' right and wrong, did it make sense to them.  IT IS WRONG TO SIN WHETHER WE WERE COERCED TO COMMIT SIN OR NOT.   "The DEVIL MADE me do it." It matters not, YOU DID IT and are therefore accountable.

Juveniles commit MILLIONS of crimes and sins for which they are not RESPONSIBLE. But, nonetheless, our own court system HOLDS THEM ACCOUNTABLE. And even human, carnal, judges take this factor into consideration when handing out penalties.

It is the PENALTY that also CAUSES US TO CHOOSE RIGHTLY after we have chosen WRONGLY! When we burn our fingers on a hot stove, we LEARN to not touch a hot stove.

God has developed a "ways and means" to accomplish His righteous end, plan, and purpose. And God's ways are VERY WISE -- they WORK, and they work very well!  We have this absolute promise from God:

"When Thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world, WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9)!!!

God be with you,
Ray


Amen! And thats the truth!

God bless,

Alex
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digitalwise

  • Guest
Re: How deep has Ray’s teachings taken us?
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2008, 11:04:49 PM »

Dear David,

Quote
Not only do I believe we can do these commandments from our Lord, we better be praying that we are doing them if we are to have any hope in the first resurrection at all. Of course, we can only do these things with Gods Spirit and grace (Divine intervention on the heart).


I disagree.

The truth is we cannot OBEY and DO ALL these commandments.

Jas 2:10  For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guiltyof all.

We enter 1st resurrection based on GRACE EXTERNAL imputed not imparted.

Rom 5:13  For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Jas 2:23  And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him6 for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
 
Imparted Grace aides us in our daily walk but we are far from perfected in this life even knowing the LAWS right now!

2Ti 1:14  That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.

digitalwise



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Richard D

  • Guest
Re: How deep has Ray’s teachings taken us?
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2008, 12:54:53 AM »

Breda……..Kat……..and everyone else also, I need to take time to go over what everyone has said. I know I might have more question on this but I need to digest the answers at this point.

This is wonderful information I have received and I’m thankful, I need to spend a day or two meditating on what’s been already given to me.

Thank you all very much.

                                            In His Love. Richard. 
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KristaD

  • Guest
Re: How deep has Ray’s teachings taken us?
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2008, 01:24:10 PM »

KristaD.

That was a great point you have made when you said it does make a difference because now we know God causes these things so it helps us to not be so judgmental towards people .

Then I thought about that answer for a few minutes but find myself coming back to this no free will and what it means to me. According to my understanding from Ray’s papers I do not make my own decisions. I think I’m making my decisions but am I?  How can God control all things if everyone is making his or her own decision?

So if I’m not judgmental it’s because God is causing me not to be but if I’ am being judgmental it’s because God is causing me to be. Otherwise God could not be in complete control.

This is what I understand from Ray’s teachings. Do you also see it like this too.

                                                In His Love. Richard.  
You make your own decisions. God controls all things because He created all things.
So if you are judgmental towards someone God has caused you to be judgmental because He MADE you like you are and gave you the things you've experienced in your life. He is not causing you to do anything that you are against doing, He simply made you so that you would be judgmental towards that person at that time for a purpose. He made you to where you would choose to make the choices you make and feel the way you feel and do the things that you do. He isn't controlling us like a puppet master like we don't do anything at all, He gave us intelligence and choices He just set up the circumstances and put the things in us to do what He wills for us to do. He has already made everything in a way that it will unfold exactly according to His plan because His plan is perfect and His knowledge is perfect. He does not have to make us do things, we do them according to His plan because that's what He created us to do. We still make the choices we make when we are in the situations so we are accountable but it is never free from His preordained will.
I hope that helps, forgive me I haven't read all of the responses.... babies to tend to ;).
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Longhorn

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Re: How deep has Ray’s teachings taken us?
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2008, 04:15:33 PM »

Im glad God caused me to like Mexican food.   :)


Love in Christ

Longhorn
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Robin

  • Guest
Re: How deep has Ray’s teachings taken us?
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2008, 04:15:46 PM »

Here are the verses that mean a lot to me concerning obeying the commandments.

Galatians 3:
23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Matthew 22
34 But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Romans 13:
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,”[a] “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

2 John 1:
5 And now I plead with you, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment to you, but that which we have had from the beginning: that we love one another. 6 This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.

1 John 2:
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Philippians 3
12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you. 16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind.

Ezekiel 36:
25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

2 Corinthians 3:
2 You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read by all men; 3 clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2008, 04:22:54 PM by M.G. »
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walt123

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Re: How deep has Ray’s teachings taken us?
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2008, 06:18:20 PM »

hello richard
hope you find your answer,but i want to thank brenda and kat for anwsering my question when i first join the forum.
it was the exact answer i was looking for about the "free will" and even when ray explain it ,i seem to have mist it .
again i hope your question is anwsered richard.
walt


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David

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Re: How deep has Ray’s teachings taken us?
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2008, 09:56:49 PM »

Dear David,

Quote
Not only do I believe we can do these commandments from our Lord, we better be praying that we are doing them if we are to have any hope in the first resurrection at all. Of course, we can only do these things with Gods Spirit and grace (Divine intervention on the heart).


I disagree.

The truth is we cannot OBEY and DO ALL these commandments.

Jas 2:10  For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

We enter 1st resurrection based on GRACE EXTERNAL imputed not imparted.

Rom 5:13  For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Jas 2:23  And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him6 for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
 
Imparted Grace aides us in our daily walk but we are far from perfected in this life even knowing the LAWS right now!

2Ti 1:14  That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.

digitalwise





I wasn't speaking of the commandments in regard to the Law of Moses, the law. I was speaking of the commandments in Matthew 5,6,7 and the rest of the NT, the commandments given by Christ.

Mat 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 19:17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good?[f] No one is good but One, that is, God.[g] But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’[h] and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’”




John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

John 15:9“As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
11 “These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. 12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. 14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. 15 No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you. 17 These things I command you, that you love one another
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1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

1 Cor 14:37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.


1 Thes 4:2 for you know what commandments we gave you through the Lord Jesus.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.

1 John 3:22 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.


1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.


2 John  V 6 This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments,[g] that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.


Digitalwise, dear brother. I'm seeing a lot of commandments here from Christ that we're being told to both obey and do.

Jesus Christ Himself obeyed and did what His Father commanded him to do. John 10:18, John 12:49, John 12:50, John 14:31.

Very often in the NT commandments ate to be both obeyed and done. In most of these scriptures the doing is the obeying.
 
« Last Edit: October 15, 2008, 10:42:06 PM by David »
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winner08

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Re: How deep has Ray’s teachings taken us?
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2008, 10:18:23 PM »

Richard D: Marques says something about you being all over the place. I for one totally understands why. I too get excited about Ray's teachings and when I come to an understanding, something I did not understand before, I get all excited and I want to share that knowledge and excitement with others. But I don't think I do a good job because I am all over the place with whatever I am trying to share. I remember someone here told be when conveying with others keep it short as possible and try to stay on one point at a time. I know when I am reading replays I get anxious if it is long. I also get lost on point. KISS we all heard of that. Keep it short and simple.

Take no offence to my advice it is only my opinion.
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Richard D

  • Guest
Re: How deep has Ray’s teachings taken us?
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2008, 10:44:47 PM »

Winner 08

I’m not offended, I have learned so much in these pass few days it’s incredible. Brothers say, do this and sisters say do that. But I say Christ has freed us from bondage, we are one body but many parts. Can the whole body be just a foot? How will it see where it’s going?

Be who you are in Christ Jesus, when a brother says do this, then for that brother, its right for him but may not be right for you. Don’t let yourself be put under law. Christ die for you and set you free. Stay free my brother in Christ Jesus.

                                    In His Freedom. Richard.
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