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[digitalwise]

Dear David,

If we have DEFICIT - yes it is true of all commandments, we have a deficit nature by virtue of the beast within but Christ has not paid just the penality but is also our PRESENT AVOCATE if we sin!

1Jn 2:1  My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

The aforementioned is NOT imparted GRACE but IMPUTED grace. The deficit is our walking with God and failing. That is our ongoing sin. No man can obey fully all the commandments in perfect walking but the call in the commandments is to be PERFECTED in the true love of God. Our deficit is covered by grace not by nature as an excuse to sin but to LOVED by God. Rather the removed penality of sin pays forward the deficit when we believe and begin our walk in obedience to those commandments as consequence of grace. This is based on the advocate power of Christ is not a walk of perfection of the flesh [lower nature / beast nature].

Pure love undefiled decends from Heaven and is not from earthly or the carnal based understanding of payment or down payments. Avoidance of the importance of  imputed grace as compared to imparted grace sees the meaning and removal of penality by the act of Christ diluted. Anything that is not of faith is sin. The power of sin is the law etc etc.
 
1Jn 2:2  And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Propitiation is a kind imputation or putting forth by sheding and splinkling onto the sinful defiled object. It is the same typology meaning when the Preist under the Old Covenant entered the Holy Place and sprinkled blood on the mercy seat in enactment to the atonement when OT Israel national sins were forgiven. By this work and power of Christ we are made perfect in our walk, not by will or desire to be but rather to walk and believe that I am wholly worthy by the merited and GRACED favour of God through His calling on my life.

Now I am of course in favour in obeying ALL words of Christ and His commandments - but the beast is a stubborn old man. To make it to the first resurrection is a case of God choosing us and is not the will of man (free will) but rather His own choosing and calling. [I [God] will harden whom I CHOOSE to HARDEN]

The above verse 1 John 2:2 is just about the most important verse in the bible and the sin is ours and is therefore a present tense. You will note an astounding truth which this forum stands by based on Ray's writings - it would be thus: sins of the whole world.

This astounding verse places the unrighteous lot of mankind under the propitiation act of Christ! Mankind's own deficit of perfection - therefore the sin/s are judged already.

digitalwise

[aqrinc]

digitalwise,

Thank you for that explanation, it is a lot you say there and so Real.

In Christ Jesus.

George.

[Richard D]

Digitalwise.

What you wrote was a blessing to me as it reminded me I’m not going to be perfected in the flesh. The flesh profits nothing. Its amazing how deceitful the heart of man is. I’ am what I’ am by the grace of God. I think the important thing for me to do is realize this.

I’m hoping God will keep me walking in his ways and I continue to increase in knowledge and understanding.

None the less its according to the predetermine purpose of God and not me. I know I’m accountable for my sins but I’m accountable as an imperfect human being. If I were perfect in myself then the work of Christ for me would be void.

At the end of the day I always remember the creature was subjected in hope and God is no respecter of persons. I will work out according to the predetermine purpose of God just as he determined and there is nothing I can do to alter what God has declared.

                                             In His Love. Richard.

[Robin]

http://bible-truths.com/lake3.html

WHEN GRACE IS A VERB

Grace means favor, a gift, to be cheerful, well, happy, graciously, freely, deliverance from danger, and a dozen other benevolent qualities of peace, joy, goodness, and salvation. It is one of those truly wonderful words of blessing. But just how does it operate in "the real world" as we say? A definition does not tell us everything about a word. We can, likewise, define "love" as, a deep, tender feeling of affection. But does that definition tell us how love actually functions?

We learned that "... when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord" (I Cor. 11:32).

Chastening defines how it is that God judges us. Now then, we are about to learn one of the most remarkable spiritual truths in the whole Bible:

"For the grace of God that brings salvation hath appeared to all men , teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world [eon or age]" (Titus 2:11-12).

Here then is the remarkable parallel between God’s judgment and His grace:

God "judges" us by "chastening" us! (I Cor. 11:32) "chasten," Greek: ‘paideuo’ #3811
God "graces" us by "teaching" us! (Titus 2:12) "teaching," Greek: ‘paideuo’ #3811

WOW! Do you even begin to understand what you have just read? Whether God "JUDGES" us (and later the wicked world), or "GRACES" us, He does it THE SAME WAY!!

"Judging" is CHASTENING (Strong’s #3811), and "gracing" is CHASTENING (Strong’s #3811). It is the SAME WORD!

"Grace" is not a stagnant feel-good noun -- it is also a verb -- that is, it does something; it accomplishes something; it produces something of great value in the believer.

"Teaching" accomplishes something essential in making man into God’s very image.

The next verse tells us what it "teaches" us: "denying ungodliness and worldly lusts ... living soberly, righteously, and godly!" Just the words "living godly" will cover every single thing that God EVER ASKS OF US -- EVERYTHING. "Living GODLY" covers every possible act of faith, love, and obedience that anyone could ever conceive of.

When God uses the SAME WORD to describe something that He wishes to accomplish, it behooves us to study deeply what that word means, especially when that word has to do with the very destiny of all peoples who have ever lived.

The subject of I Cor. 11:32 is JUDGING.
The subject of Titus 2:11 is GRACE AND SALVATION.

HOW does God "judge" us? BY CHASTENING (#3811, paideuo)!.
HOW does God's "grace and save" us? BY CHASTENING (#3811, paideuo)!

God JUDGES by chastening (I Cor. 11:32), and God GRACES by chastening (Titus 2:11).
By GRACE GOD JUDGES US and by JUDGING GOD GRACES US!

Gracing us by means of chastening, TEACHES US TO LIVE GODLY and brings salvation. Judging us by means of chastening, also TEACHES US TO LIVE GODLY and brings salvation!

It is high time we dispense with the hypocrisy.

When God JUDGES US THROUGH CHASTENING (I Cor. 11:32) it is for our good and for our benefit and for our salvation. Why then do we think that God changes character when He likewise judges the wicked, unjust, and non-believers at the great white throne? Why? God changes NOT! God is NOT a respecter of persons. You read all of these Scriptures. Do we think the Scriptures LIE?

If you are not rejoicing over these profound and marvelous revelations, then you must be spiritually asleep. I have just shown you one of the most remarkable truths in the entirety of the Bible! You would do well to not read any further until you thoroughly grasp what has been presented here.

And again I ask, "What does this have to do with the lake of fire?" EVERYTHING! I am not going to go into detail on this aspect of judging yet, but suffice it to be said here that the "judging" (Greek: krino in I Cor. 11:32 by chastening that brings godly living and salvation is also the very same "judging" (Greek: krino) used in Revelation 20:12 with reference to the lake of fire.

Seriously, do many believe that these God-inspired Greek words have one meaning when applied to God judging and gracing believers now, but then have a totally different meaning when applied to as yet non-believers in the day of judging? Do you? Well, regrettably, many do think that God is fickle, inconsistent, and a respecter of persons. Can you for once in your life begin to use your God-given mind to think for yourself?

This is an absolutely marvelous teaching. God "judges" us by "chastening "(paideuo) us, which means, teaching, training, learning, disciplining, punishing, instructing, and educating. And God "graces" us also by this same "chastening" (paideuo) which does not change meaning from one Scripture verse to another. Notice how other translations render this word paideuo in Titus 2:11-12:

"Teaching us..." King James

"Instructing us..." American Standard Version

"Disciplining us... New Testament (Henry Alford)

"And schooling us..." The Centenary Translation (Montgomery)

"Training us..." The New Testament in Modern Speech (Weymouth)

Now it is true that the Greek word paideuo #3811 can also mean "punishment." But punishment is not the main force of this word. Notice that none of the above translations (nor any that I know of) translate this word, "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, PUNISHING us that denying ungodliness ..." No, the force of this word is to DISCIPLINE, TRAIN, INSTRUCT, SCHOOL AND TEACH. Let’s at least have the sensibility of a ten year-old. Of what value is "disciplining, training, instructing, schooling, and teaching" if it goes on forever and ever and ever, and while being burned with fire, for ALL ETERNITY? Gee, do we think they will EVER "learn their lesson?" I, of course, speak as a fool.

All of these aspects of paideuo are with a view to amendment, correction, and setting right, not merely punishment for punishment’s sake. A father chastens his children with a view to amendment and correction, not for the sole sake of CAUSING PAIN! Why do we think carnal-minded human fathers are a billion times more noble and merciful in the disciplining of their children than God is in the disciplining (chastening -- judging -- gracing) of HIS children?

There is a need for much repenting in the teaching of this vile doctrine of eternal torment. This doctrine of eternal torture blasphemes the name of our Loving Father. It is heresy on a level with hypobole -- inordinate -- TOO MUCH! It is a damnable teaching. And it is among the filthy trash of wood, straw and stubble that will be purged out and burned out in God’s Lake of Fire from every person who teaches and delights in this most disgusting of all disgraceful theologies of depraved men and women.

Oh yes, there are things that are going to be burned out of existence in God’s "lake of fire," and this deplorable doctrine of eternal torment will be the first to be abolished and death will be the last to be abolished--and so, let it burn ... LET IT BURN!

Remember that Jesus Christ does not change and that He does not respect (have partiality) with regards to persons. With those two thoughts in mind, what is accomplished by the "chastening" of the Lord? He "graces" us by chastening and He "judges" us by chastening. What does it always accomplish? Answer:

"For the grace of God [that chastens us] ... BRINGS SALVATION" (Titus 2:11)!!

And all of this is of God. God judges, God graces, God chastens, and God brings SALVATION!

Perhaps you have a shortcut-formula which bypasses all these hundreds of Scriptures I am presenting and makes them all void and of no effect? I have heard of such short-cut formulas, but God’s Word knows nothing of them!

Notice:

"Being CONFIDENT of this very thing, that He [that’s Christ] which hath begun a good work in you WILL PERFORM IT until the day of Jesus Christ" (Phil. 1:6).

And when Christ's

"... JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world [the whole world] WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9).

As far as Christian theory goes, this Scripture in Isaiah might just a well be a lie, for they say it will never happen. They teach that the whole world will never ever learn righteousness and receive salvation. That’s because they neither believe the gospel nor teach it. And so rather than bring the gospel of universal salvation, they threaten the world with universal damnation in the fires of eternal hell if they don’t follow their short-cut-formulas to material wealth and spiritual salvation. And thus the name of God is being blasphemed among the nations (Rom. 2:24) to this very day.

[David]

 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.



barus
bar-ooce'
From the same as G922; weighty, that is, (figuratively) burdensome, grave: - grievous, heavy, weightier.

[digitalwise]

Dear Brothers,

I can see you would have thought that my reasoning is to discount chastening of the Lord as a means of grace.

My dear brothers of faith the older we get the more we realise that even commandments of the New Covenant spoken by the Lord Jesus are not easy. We not perfect. Phil 3:13.  All chastening proves on us is that we NEED grace ever more and we truly SONS of God. Heb 12:7

Grace is mediated by God himself on his beloved children. And the chastening is part of the transaction. We all agree and could we ever say less.

However, if you my brothers you were caught in some snare of sin, does that make you less then the other who still believes and does not sin? You see it is not by merit or works least any man should boast. Eph 2:9  Even your chastening by grace to keep you in the palm of HIS hand is NOT your doing but God's will to save you not only in this life but in the life to come.

Remember my brothers we are not without sin. 1 John 1:8 For if we say we have no sin and cannot fall ocassionally we think ourselves sufficient in our own selves of these things. The doctrine of which one holds to must not become like the pharisee when they spent endless amounts of time dissecting scripture and became self righteous by laws. Remember my brothers if you stood with pharisee in the stoning attempt of the woman caught in adultery, would you cast a stone? The steps of a good man are ORDERED by the Lord, though he fall he shall not be cast down for the Lord upholds with his hand. Psalms 37:23

Are you a good man? Do you fall ocassionally? Do you do ALL the commandments of Jesus perfectly? Are you free from all chastisement?

Finally do the teachings of Ray ring an accord with me? Of course! They ALL do! Shall we sin so that grace might abound? Of course not! Romans 6:1

He who thinks he can stand take heed least he fall. 1 Cor 10:12 It is then you will need your advocate just like I do when I fall. For if your will to do perfectly is based soley on commandments alone then you are under law and you do need grace. We must all be captive to the greater - apprehended by Christ in your own calling, not by just teaching alone. Phil 3:13

I write unto children, young man and fathers.  1John 2:14  If you wish to be fathers in maturity then a father better understands why chastening is not just a teaching. We learn it is not by works - or by the law or by perfection or by sin eradication - but by grace. The paradox remains that we are sons of God despite our weaknesses and our sin. That is majesty and deep of the grace in Christ.

Blessings,

digitalwise

Blessings to all,

digitalwise 

[tinknocker]

Amen to that

Im glad God caused me to like Mexican food.   


Love in Christ

Longhorn

[Robin]

digitalwise

I had to run out the door after posting so I only had time to post Ray's teaching. It was not meant as a disagreement with your post, but rather to add to your post. The reason I thought it was important is because of the church teaching that we are saved (past tense) by grace. This teaching kept me asleep in the church for years. Christ died for me. My sins were covered by grace. I was saved and it was a done deal. If it hadn't been for all the new testament verses on obeying the commandments I would have stayed asleep. YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY.1 Peter 1:15 Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matthew 5:48 These verses woke me up and showed me that I am the beast and I need a savior. If you are guilty of breaking one of the commandments you are guilty of all. I stood before God guilty and knew I was not saved and could not save myself. I feel it is important to point out that we are being saved by grace as Ray points out in his teaching above.

Romans 13:
9For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

 10Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

 11Do this, knowing the time, that it is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed.

2 Peter 1
Making One's Calling and Election Sure
 3His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
 5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.

 10Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, 11and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.


"For the grace of God [that chastens us] ... BRINGS SALVATION" (Titus 2:11)!!

2 Corinthians 3:4-6
 4Such confidence we have through Christ toward God.

5Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God,

 6who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

[legoman]

Thank you Richard for raising these questions and also for those who replied - it really helps.

I too find I have questions and don't completely understand the free will stuff, but then someone points out part of Ray's material which answers my question exactly.  And its all in the scriptures.

The free will/predestination stuff is very difficult to grasp.  It is so vast and amazing - just think of it, God planned that we would be discussing this topic right now and you would be reading this post at this very moment! 

God even invented the internet!  I don't know why that amazes me, I mean he did create the earth and the universe too.  I guess its because I work in the telecom industry and I know how dang complicated it is to get computers/networks/etc to function.

And he made me like mexican food too

Kevin

[aqrinc]

M.G.,

Remember (we are saved by Grace, Through Faith) it is a gift of God not works; lest any should boast.

Here is Ray's teaching on this subject.

This is Deep: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5417.0.html

George.

[Robin]

Thank you George.

I can't see anywhere in my posts where I indicate that we are being saved by works, but I am probably communicating poorly again.

I'll just say that God caused me to like Mexican food too, lol.

[Richard D]

Below is and excerpt from ray’s e-mail.

When you or I are confronted with a decision to either do something that we know is right, or know is wrong, we weight the options and MAKE THE CHOICE. God has absolutely given man a brain that has the ability to process information. Man CAN process information and make a choice. But it is the information itself the causes the choice one way or the other. The man cannot make a choice WITHOUT some form of information that influences or ultimately CAUSES him to make a choice. NO ONE MAKES US MAKE THE CHOICE, even other unforeseen circumstances and information DOES MAKE OR CAUSE US TO CHOOSE! True, circumstances beyond our control, which we do not see or even perceive, do cause us to MAKE a choice, but ... BUT, IN OUR OWN HEART AND MIND, WE MAKE THE CHOICE -- not someone else or something else.

But "it's all GOD" Who is ACTUALLY doing it, isn't it? NO, YOU, ACTUALLY, ARE THE ACTIVE PARTICIPANT WHO IS DOING IT! God merely brings about the circumstances that INFLUENCE AND CAUSE YOU TO DO IT!



I absolutely make my own choices, any decisions I decide and follow through with are of me but caused by God. So the only choice I can make is the choice God cause me to make. My view of this is that I decide what God told me to decide. I cannot make a decision outside of God’s purpose.

So if I want to go to a restaurant but God wants me to go to a museum to bring his truths to a person at the museum, then my decision will be the museum, So I made the only choice possible for me but I’m held accountable also.

It must be like this I think or God’s purpose cannot be fulfilled.


                                                       In His Love. Richard.     

[Beloved]

I absolutely make my own choices, any decisions I decide and follow through with are of me but caused by God. So the only choice I can make is the choice God cause me to make. My view of this is that I decide what God told me to decide. I cannot make a decision outside of God’s purpose.

I am not sure to really got this Richard your explanation seems to indicate that if you saw a 50 dollar bill on the street and picked it up that God caused you to do it.   The way you are using the word cause is confusing.

Paul warned the saints of his time about going down this path.

God presents you with the circumstances, what he is causing .....is you to go through the circumstance. It is your carnal nature that reacts...it is only God working in you that "helps" you overcome the carnal and make the correct or righteous choice.....

Are you watching pornography right now, swearing up a blue streak, getting drunk now....if Christ in is you , you have overcome some of these...one of the oher posts dicussed idols of the heart....Jesus has to work these out of you . It take time and tribulation...so right now pride, self righteousness and envy or some other idol may still need to be knocked down.

That 50.00 will incite greed and covetous, that is built into all of us sinning machines....Yes that is 'the way we were made', God has taken resposiblity and has given us His son as Saviour and Redeemer, but our works still stand...the bad ones will need to be burned out...but the Will and purpose of God is to show us ......that everything that will happen will ulitmatlely Glorify God because He has this glorious plan for us.

Isa 66:18  For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.

Jer 24:7  And I will give them a heart to know me, that I am the LORD: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart.

Jer 29:11  For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

beloved

[Richard D]

Beloved.


Thank you so much for you’re explanation. I was somehow missing the mark on this but your explanation has put it together for me. I’m sure others were telling me this but I did not fully understand.

So, God causes circumstances in my life and causes me to make a decision concerning these circumstances and with Christ in me I learn how to overcome the wrong within me and learn to do what is right in God’s sight by teaching me through this experience of good and evil.

So, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me but this is a lifetime process through trials which come by circumstances which God causes and then aids me in overcoming.

Beloved, is this thinking rightly in the truth? If so, then I understand, if not, then back to the drawing board for me.


Thank you beloved.                                  In His Love. Richard. 

[aqrinc]

M.G.,

Sorry it came out like that; my point is: (Saved by Grace Through Faith) the rest was completion of the verse. 
Please accept my most profound apology; no intention on my part to say you even mentioned works by us. 
In future i will guard my words more carefully.

I love Mexican Food too, just had 5 fabulous Tacos made by my Wife for dinner.  but i am at least 1/4 Hispanic.

In Truth and Love Brother, George.

Thank you George.

I can't see anywhere in my posts where I indicate that we are being saved by works, but I am probably communicating poorly again.

I'll just say that God caused me to like Mexican food too, lol.

[Beloved]

Yes Richard you are closer now

beloved

[digitalwise]

Thank you George.

I can't see anywhere in my posts where I indicate that we are being saved by works, but I am probably communicating poorly again.

You did not. And we agree on all facets of grace. It's okay to declare the other side of grace.

When we take teachings as an orthodoxy* kind of approach to our faith, we do "fall asleep" as you say. Some die very young ignoring their sins.

I would like to say to myself and also to others - very careful how when you are given so much light you do become arrogant or puffed up with just knowledge.

I have sometimes walked a mile or two, almost limping along because there was a stone in my shoe, and I did not stop to look for it. And many a Christian goes limping for years because of the stones in his shoe, but if he would only stop to look for them, he would be relieved. What is the sin that is causing you pain? Get it out, and take away the sin, for if you do not, you have not regarded this admonition which speaketh unto you as unto sons — “My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord.” Spurgeon From a sermon entitled "Chastisement," delivered October 28, 1855.

God never calls us to complacency concerning our sins. The above virtually sums up how we should treat sin on our life long journey toward the Kingdom.

My background comes from legalism in the church. I have fought a long hard fight in mainline churches against legalism.

One aspect of legalism is the methodology of punishment for the non-believer = hell / falsehoods. Whilst it is true - "no man comes to the Father except by me [Jesus], it is interesting to note that the great white throne of judgement determines mankinds destiny in the end of all things. Here the scene is an allegorical court room scene of finality. Jesus still remains the doorway and abatrator of salvation in its final outworking. Here we see the drama of salvation sorted out and it still will be grace that determines the outcome on each individual.

On that day we'll say with Psalmist: Psa 139:14  I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

Kind Regards,

Digitalwise

orthodoxy - prevailing attitude of belief as in religious / theology.

[Richard D]

Beloved.


This is and excerpt from Ray’s work (the lake of fire) part 1 below.


And for all who do have confidence in the Scriptures, let me say equally dogmatically that there is absolutely no Scriptural proof for man having a "free will" or the ability to make "uncaused choices." In every case Scripture shows that it is God Who is behind the scene of all circumstances that influence and cause a man to make the one and only choice possible under any given circumstance. This law of "cause and effect" is stated and demonstrated time and again in Scripture. Ignorance of these behind the scenes causes does not disprove the fact that they are the actual and literal cause of our choices


Something’s that Ray teaches comes to me with such ease. As I start to think I understand Ray’s meaning concerning our will being subjected to God’s will I find myself regressing each time.

I understand that God governs everything in my life and that I play right into the hands of God with every choice I make but I cannot for the life of me pin point how this is being played out in me.

Let’s say I’m on a speeding boat ¼ of a mile from land and God causes me to fall of the speeding boat but no one on the boat knows I fell off.  So I make the only possible choice which is to swim towards land.

Now if I drown God is responsible but I’m held accountable because I was not strong enough to make it to land.

So with God I can make it to land because he strengthens me, thus teaching me how to swim.

Maybe that’s it in a nut shell.



                                            In His Love. Richard.

[Richard D]

I don’t believe salvation depends on understanding this will of ours and God’s sovereignty over our will although I could be wrong. I know God’s purpose is worked out through our will.
 
Good works is another one, if we do good works on our own it does not count but if God does good works through us it does counts.

Maybe I’m placing too much emphasis on these things. 


                                                    In God’s love. Richard.

[mharrell08]

John 15:5  I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me [Jesus] ye can do nothing.

Rom 3:12  They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one

Eph 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


No one can do 'good works' on their own and/or without God. God ordains the good works that we do. As He also "works all things after the counsel of His own will" [Eph. 1:11].

This is one of the many misunderstandings that the church teaches. There is nothing done outside of the counsel of God. All is of God.


Marques