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Confused About A Verse In The Bible
aqrinc:
From Ray i understand that it is Forgiveness then Repentance then Cleansing in that order.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3709.msg27923.html#msg27923
Excerpt from Repentance- Nashville 2005 Conference.
Repent means to turn around, to go the other way. Whatever you are doing that’s wrong and
sinful and evil and carnal and worldly and everything else, you turn around, you “repent” and
you go the other direction. The scriptures mention a couple of words:
Matthew 18:3 talks about being converted
Matthew 19:28 talks about being regenerated
1Peter 1:3 talks about being born again
John 3:3 talks about being born again
What are all those things? They’re all one and the same, there’s no difference. Being begotten
anew, being born again, being regenerated, being converted…they are all the same. And this is
what we all want to do, so that we can take on more knowledge and live more Godly, and reach
this goal. We all sin. Sin has to go through three things: cleansing, repentance, forgiveness.
Does anybody know the order of these things?
This is the order of what happens to sin:
1. Forgiveness
2. Repentance
3. Cleansing
(God does not cleanse anybody of sins they haven’t repented of.)
Forgiveness comes first and isn’t that interesting. Jesus Christ was slain from the foundation of
the world and why was he slain? Why did Christ die? The scriptures say Christ died for our sins.
That’s the simplest statement. But there is a little bit more. I want you to notice this:
George.
Marlene:
Thank you all for your interest in the topic. I know now that we all confess now and we can also ask for forgiveness for those who hurt us or need forgiveness. I do believe that is for now and in future. You all have shared much and I appreciate it .
In His Love
Marlene
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: indianabob on October 18, 2008, 04:57:38 PM ---Well said Eric and helpful,
The apostles knew that only God can forgive sins through the application of the blood of Jesus and yet Jesus sent them.
If anyone who realized that their sin and their sin alone had made the sacrifice of Jesus necessary came to understand the enormity of their sin and being sorrowful did repent in anguish and determine in their own mind and heart to change and follow the leading of God's spirit in their mind, all the above being caused by God, then it would seem to follow that God would fulfill His promise to forgive.
Why should any of them or any of us today, have to wait till the end of our lives for forgiveness? Don't we pray daily for a fresh start so that we can begin the new day with ethusiam and joy?
Even when we realize that we must return to the one we have hurt and make peace with them and then come back to the altar of God to beg His mercy on our own behalf, we do so with the confidence that God will honor our petition and cover our sin with the blood of christ.
So then, could not the apostles have advised the sinners that they met daily of the same grace and mercy that was immediately available to the repentant sinner? Why would God with hold mercy and leave the repentant sinner in doubt?
Bob
--- End quote ---
Hi Bob and everyone who has contributed so eloquently to this thread,
I must reiterate some points made earlier as it appears only Marlene, Heidi, Rodger & Kat understand where I am coming from in regard to what Jesus spoke to His disciples in John Chapter 20;
Joh 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Joh 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
On the surface this would appear to contradict Jesus as He spoke in Matthew Chapter 6;
Mat 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
So, what's up with that? Which is true? Do we forgive or not, do we ourselves right now have the authority to absolve or retain our brothers sins? Did the apostles? Where is it recorded that any of the apostles or Paul forgave anyone without invoking the name of Christ?
Of course we do not have to wait until the end of our lives to forgive our brothers sins against us, in fact we are commanded to forgive but can I forgive the sins a brother commits against someone or anyone else? As Heidi mentioned before the Catholic priests take this authority by quoting these verses in John, do they really have this power? We know the answer......
As Ray has said many times pay attention to the words; Christ says;
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
So how do we resolve this apparent contradiction between forgiving/retaining sins? It is clear in Matthew that we are to forgive our brothers period, it is just as clear that Jesus is telling His disciples that they will be given the power to forgive (He does not say in His name) and the power to retain sin. How can these both be true?
Because one (Matthew) is speaking of our earthly, flesh and blood journey and the other (John) is speaking of a time after the change when the full inheritence is given, when the Sons and Daughters of God are manifested to the world!
There is nothing new (covenant wise) about praying to God to forgive sins, I wish I had a nickel for every time Moses or another OT Prophet prayed for God to forgive Israel, but we never read about (in the OT or NT) any prophet or apostle absolving or doing any forgiving in their own name. Christ is speaking of something totally different in John, as Ray would say read all the words, pay attention to all the words.
There is so much treasure hidden in the four Gospels, are they all just reiterating the same exact words? If you take a close look you will see some subtle (and not so subtle) differences that when looked at closely can really open your eyes to spiritual truths. I have been studying the Gospels intensely the past 8 or 9 months and believe me they are much deeper (in speaking to His Elect) than what I ever thought previously.
This sure is an interesting journey!
Peace,
Joe
Marlene:
Hello Joe, I say amen to that. It sure has been a journey and the ride has not ended. I agree with you that he has alot to say to the elect. When, we come into the truth, I belive that race is to find as much truth as the Lord leads us to. I belive it is a race to the finish. I always, just pray keep me in the race Lord. But, now I dont doubt him. I know who is in charge now. Yes, I believe I have entered the race. It is definitely a journey.
In His Love
Marlene
jeetkunejimi:
Hi Marlene,
the way I see it Jesus was talking to the Holy Spirit of God, not the disciples.
And saying this, He exhales and is saying to them, "Get Holy Spirit! If you should be forgiving anyone's sins, they have been forgiven them. If anyone's you should be holding, they are held."
(CLNT).
If you read on a little we see that Thomas wasn't present when this in-filing took place, so when he turns up he's sceptical about Christ's veracity. As we know all sins are forgiven eventually but those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit of God they will have their sins held for this aion and the aion to follow, but of course after that they will be forgiven.
Hope this may be of some help as you seek unction from the Holy Spirit of God:)
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