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[martincisneros]

Hi,

I'm new to the forum, but not a newbie to the main website.  I used to think that L. Ray was a little over the top, but after having a few years under my belt of dealing with people on certain subjects, including dealing with people online....  I think he's great!  I'm not sure if I'm as patient as I used to be.  I like how thorough L. Ray Smith tries to be about things that I honestly wonder if I have the patience for any more.

Anyway, I'm from Fort Worth, Texas and am currently looking at the best options for getting an alternative perspective spread throughout the North Texas area to the religious fundamentalism that North Texas is famous for.  What do I mean by the religious fundamentalism of North Texas?  Think of a minimum of a couple hundred John Hagees within a few dozen square miles.  Along with doing much re-reading online, I'm currently re-reading some favorite 18th century authors like Elhanan Winchester, Charles Chauncy, and Joseph Huntington.

I know what I have to think/say about a lot of things.  I want to hear what everyone here has to say about a lot of the issues facing Churches as they [in acts of futility] try to negotiate/incorporate the typical preacher situation that they face into more workable situations for their [spiritual] lives, and what you're hearing from the Holy Spirit about the changes that He's bringing into the world inspite of the clergy.

[Dave in Tenn]

Hi Martin.

My short answer is this.  The entire 'church' whether fundamentalist, mainstream, word of faith, pentacostal, catholic, orthodox, and any other entity which could be described as 'christian' is apostate.  It has been for almost all the life of the 'church'.  It is Mystery Babylon, the Mother of Harlots.  And it is apostate by the Will of God.

The Gospel of the Kingdom is "many called, few chosen" and it operates by God drawing/dragging some few believers out of the 'many' who claim the name of Christ.  This drawing/dragging is a divine intervention, an application of God's grace by God-given faith/sight for His purpose.

I don't believe the 'church' can be 'reformed' as I don't believe that is God's intention.

That said, you asked about alternatives.  Though you are unlikely to encounter many 'preachers' here, I'll give you one man's take from my chair.

Firstly, I take the admonition that 'there not be many teachers' to my heart in two ways.  One, I do not seek myself to actively teach.  Two, I do not seek for myself multiple teachers.  As you've said, Ray is very thorough and his articles are dense with information and spiritual insight.  For a teacher to measure up to that is daunting indeed. 

Secondly, there is no practice or policy of any church that hasn't been corrupted by the flesh, and none that measures up to spiritual discernment and understanding.  All such practices and policies are baby's milk at best and heretical at worst.

The typical 'preacher situation' is to hold things together and grow numerically.  This is usually done through coercion or appealing to the lowest common denominator/baby's milk.  We're called to niether, ultimately.  And no assembly can demand otherwise.

As for what the Spirit of God seems to be saying to me as I meditate on all I've learned, it seems possible (and may even be foretold in Scripture) that this work will grow in this age.  But just as Paul spent over a decade learning and studying before he began his ministry, a similar patience must be endured as revelation continues, truths are established, and messengers are called out and prepared.

Our GREATEST work (if I am so blessed as to be among them) won't be in this age, however, but in the next after the Lord Jesus establishes His reign. 

Welcome to the forum.  I hope you get other (and better) answers. 

 

[Dennis Vogel]

Welcome Martin,

Dave gave an excellent reply.

This forum is littered with posts from people who tried to convince loved ones and friends to no avail. If it's not their time to understand, no amount of discussion will change them. It is a true miracle from God that they are so blind.

As an exercise pick just one subject that's easy to prove with scriptures and see how far you get.

Perhaps: Everyone who ever died (save one) are still dead awaiting the resurrection, and not in heaven or hell.

But be prepared to lose ALL your friends and family. Because they will turn on you if you don't back down.

Dennis

[Samson]

Welcome Martin,

                        Glad you have joined us. Dave from Tennesee mentioned  "Christianity " apostasizing from the Truth and it's true. Consider that by the middle of the second century C.E. , according to a Gallop Poll, there was already 63 schisms or interpretations of what was considered " Christianity. "

                         Also consider the Scriptures of the New Testament from the First Century: Acts. 20:29,30. " I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you and will not treat the flock with tenderness, and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves. "

                         1 John. 2:18,19. " Young children, it is the last hour, and, just as you have heard that antichrist is coming, EVEN NOW there have come to be MANY ANTICHRISTS from which fact we gain the knowledge that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of our sort, for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us, but they went out that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort. "

                        1 Timothy. 4:1-3 " However the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and TEACHINGS OF DEMONS, by the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, marked in their conscience as with a branding iron; forbidding to marry, commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and know the truth. "

                        As a suggestion, see and read: 2 Peter 2:1-3 ( false teachers among you); 1 Timothy 1:19,20( Hymenaus & Alexander); 2 Timothy 2:16-18 ( Their word will spread like GANGRENE); 2Thessalonians 2: 7-12 ( THEY MAY GET TO BELIEVING THE LIE).

                        These and many other Scriptures indicate that even in the First Century, especially towards the end of the century, near the death of the Apostle John, the LIE AND FALSE TEACHINGS GREW PROGRESSIVELY WORSE, SPREADING LIKE GANGRENE.

                         True Christianity WAS, HAS BEEN and IS in the minority from amongst professed " Christians "

                      Looking forward to your Posts and your comments in the days to come.

                                  In Gods Love(Agapeo), Samson.

[Kat]

Hi Martin,

I'm glad you have joined us 
To me it is not about 'spreading' this truth, but learning it.  If we are of the Elect, then we are being prepared, so that "we shall reign."  But our time is not yet.

Rev 5:10  And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

But we are to be studing so as to give an answer if we are asked of this truth we believe.

1Pe 3:15  But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

I hope you will enjoy the fellowship here, it is a great to have a place to share with like minded people this truth that we hold dear.

If you have not checked out the forum, here are some links to what is available here.

The forum rules, it will help you see how this forum is moderated.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3.0.html
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4558.0.html
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3614.0.html

Forum Indexes & lots of Info.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/board,14.0.html

Ray's Videos
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8227.0.html

Ray's Audios 
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2641.0.html

Ray's 2008 Audios
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8256.0.html

Transcripts of Ray's Audios
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/board,12.0.html

Who Am I? (members pics and personal stuff)
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/board,16.0.html

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[joyful1]

Welcome Martin! It's good to see you here!
I want to say a big thank you for being so gracious in allowing me to explore topics of interest over in your neck of the woods. I trust you'll find many warm and sincere folks over here where I first heard the "truly GOOD News" about the Saviour of ALL MEN, especially those that believe!
Again...WELCOME!
Joyce

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Martin,

Welcome aboard!

I look forward to fellowshipping together.

Peace,

Joe

[cjwood]

welcome martin,
it is great to see another texan on the forum (i'm in austin). i have to agree that dave in tenn's reply was great, actually awesome! and i have to admit to kat that once again she has been able to share volumes with only one scripture or one statement. i mean, all the times i have read the scripture she referenced in 1 pet. 3:15, that i only just this time saw (by God's awesome Spirit) that the words say "...and be ready always to give an answer to every man that ASKETH you a reason of the hope that is in you...". as ray smith has said time and time again, "you've got to pay attention to the words"! that simple little word "asketh" says it all. we aren't called to evangelize the world or even try to tell others in our own earthly families about all that we have been shown by God thru ray's teachings. but, if someone asks us why we have the hope that is in us, then we can tell them why with "meekness and fear". and in looking up the meaning of that word "fear", my strong's exhaustive concordance says it comes from the greek word "phobos" #5401 (2a5) meaning "reverential fear" of God through the indwelling Spirit of God, a reverential "fear" of God will inspire a constant carefulness in dealing with others in His "fear". i mean, this stuff just blows me away. the more i learn, the more i have to learn. God is so awesome! so welcome aboard mi amigo.

claudia

[Linny]

Hi and welcome Martin. It is so funny you should mention the Texas fundamentalism. It wasn't that long ago when we were deeply in Babylon that I was amazed at what all God must be doing in Texas because it seemed that every other preacher I listened to was from there! Of course, now I see it differently and wonder why God has chosen Texas to be so blind! 

Just this weekend I felt led of the Lord to speak about BT truths to a dear internet friend of mine who also lives in Texas. She had so many issues with church doctrine and now she is dying to learn all she can so I will be sending her here very soon. She has been given "ears to hear."

Pretty exciting!

Looking forward to hearing more from you.

Many blessings,
Lin

[Heidi]

Martin, I give a hearty AMEN all the advise that everyone has given you and a BIG warm welcome from me as well.

[hebrewroots98]

Welcome Martin ,
(I am West of you here in Lubbock !)  I have a step daughter who lives in Ft. Worth, so maybe we can get together and have a Dr. Pepper together one day ? 

I love the words that Dave gave your; how insightful Dave! 
And Dennis is SO RIGHT too (I have experienced the things that he speaks of with family and friends dropping you like a hot cake when you share these truths with them.  This unique and blessed walk of ours here does REQUIRE patience though, so get ready my friend.
Sampson said it well too...WE ARE THE MINORITY in this world.
As Kat stated...never forget that our biggest moments of teaching/spreading the truth is not here and now, but later with Christ.  Thanks for the reminder Kat that we are just getting ourselves prepared here and now...
Ditto Claudia, my fellow Texan!
Lin hit the nail on the head about Texas being blind...I think that this is the case due to Texas claiming to be the BUCKLE of the BIBLE BELT area!  Texans apparently need to be humbled a bit from their piousness of claiming to be so spiritual??   

Blessings,
Susan