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[legoman]

Many are called but few are chosen.

How many people will actually endure to the end (when Christ comes)?  Right now, I'm having a hard time seeing myself do it.

I look around at everyone I know, and I see literally no potential candidates.  Especially considering to be one of the 'few' you at least have to understand that God is not going to torture most of humanity for eternity.  Am I correct on that assertion?

I'm beginning to wonder how few the 'few' might actually be.  Could the few be as little as 1000 people?  A hundred people?  A dozen people?

Any thoughts or scripture reference on this?

It helps to bring perspective to what is going on.

Kevin

[mharrell08]

Hello Kevin,

That's an interesting question though of course I don't have the answer. 

But I will say, that it seems like the 'few' are relative to the 'many'. I personally think the few are more now than what I first came into the knowledge of the truth. I mean, the many is really a lot if you think about how long we, as humanity, has been on this earth. So I would think the few would be relative to that.

Basically, the more of the 'many' the more of the 'few'. But this isn't something I believe is set in stone. God is doing a 'strange work' so it could be the opposite: the more the 'many' the fewer the 'few'. Who knows? 


Marques

[Longhorn]

Im just a washed up old country drunk, but Im pretty sure the quote " The more the merrier" does not apply here.  I think when God says few, I think he means it.  As for myself, im striving for the 1st resurrection, but at this point in time it's a long shot......... Real Long.

Love in Christ

Longhorn

[Akira329]

If I am not counted among the few then there still is hope,
till then I'll be faithful and endure to the end

[AK4]

Hey legoman

I think our best guess would be to go to where Moses and Aaron (the Father and Jesus) was to pick some men to help judge matters with the Isrealites

Exodus 18:13-27
13 The next day Moses took his seat to serve as judge for the people, and they stood around him from morning till evening. 14 When his father-in-law saw all that Moses was doing for the people, he said, "What is this you are doing for the people? Why do you alone sit as judge, while all these people stand around you from morning till evening?" 15 Moses answered him, "Because the people come to me to seek God's will. 16 Whenever they have a dispute, it is brought to me, and I decide between the parties and inform them of God's decrees and laws." 17 Moses' father-in-law replied, "What you are doing is not good. 18 You and these people who come to you will only wear yourselves out. The work is too heavy for you; you cannot handle it alone. 19 Listen now to me and I will give you some advice, and may God be with you. You must be the people's representative before God and bring their disputes to him. 20 Teach them the decrees and laws, and show them the way to live and the duties they are to perform. 21 But select capable men from all the people--men who fear God, trustworthy men who hate dishonest gain--and appoint them as officials over thousands, hundreds, fifties and tens. [/glow] 22 Have them serve as judges for the people at all times, but have them bring every difficult case to you; the simple cases they can decide themselves. That will make your load lighter, because they will share it with you. 23 If you do this and God so commands, you will be able to stand the strain, and all these people will go home satisfied." 24 Moses listened to his father-in-law and did everything he said. 25 He chose capable men from all Israel and made them leaders of the people, officials over thousands, hundreds, fifties and tens. 26 They served as judges for the people at all times.[/font] The difficult cases they brought to Moses, but the simple ones they decided themselves. 27 Then Moses sent his father-in-law on his way, and Jethro returned to his own country.

Compare this with the parable Jesus gave.  Although it doesnt have a number i think is the symbol of whats to come.

Anthony

[Richard D]

Legoman


It’s not in man to direct his footsteps, Who ever God has chosen will not fail. I know what you mean about not holding out till the end but also what choice do we have?

I could be wrong but when I think of our will being subjected to God’s will I have a feeling everything was already planed out from before the foundations of the world and we are simply living out what God has declared.

But it does seem good to say there is much wisdom in learning righteousness now as you know we are all going to have to learn righteousness anyways, so I think having a head start is a good thing.

But how many are the few, well if I don’t make it, will not the number of the few remain the same, I think so. 


                                                 In God’s love. Richard.

[lilitalienboi16]

Im just a washed up old country drunk, but Im pretty sure the quote " The more the merrier" does not apply here.  I think when God says few, I think he means it.  As for myself, im striving for the 1st resurrection, but at this point in time it's a long shot......... Real Long.

Love in Christ

Longhorn

Don't worry dear Longhorn, your not alone. I can speak for myself here, when i say its a LONGSHOT for me as well.

God bless brother.

Love in Christ to you!

Alex

[Marlene]

Longhorn and Alex, I agree it is a long shot, but with God it is not impossible. We just need to keep in the race. I belive he is able to keep us there cause it really all depends on him, but we still have to stay in it. What I believe keeps us in it is praying at all times. Wanting to know him more and more. We have to be like Jesus dependent on him. Cause in all reality it is all his decision to choose who he wants.

In His Love
Marlene

[Ricky]

Hi, I did some grade 4 math work on this and YIKES!! I will never make it. 144,000 from 12 tribes, 12,000 from each tribe. If you take 6,000,000,000 people on earth divided by 12 = 500,000,000 per tribe. Looks to me like the odds are not to good for this if the few are  :- from the 144,000.
 Bless you all     Ricky 

[aqrinc]

Look you guy are all messed up, the JWs already have the 144,000 taken by them.
Sorry, not to be flippant but i have a problem with figuring this one out at all, we
Believers are Called out of Babylon By God. Jesus Does The Work In us and On us
so what are we doing to be Chosen.

George.

[lilitalienboi16]

Look you guy are all messed up, the JWs already have the 144,000 taken by them.
Sorry, not to be flippant but i have a problem with figuring this one out at all, we
Believers are Called out of Babylon By God. Jesus Does The Work In us and On us
so what are we doing to be Chosen.

George.

  Goerge, i don't think anyone is insinuiting that we do anything, we all know that every perfect gift comes from above, from the Father, however that doesn't mean that we are not accountable for our carnal actions. With this accountability that i have, i also have great shame for being so carnal minded. Looking at that, i can see that God has ALOT of work to do with me, not that He can't do it, and like you said, it's all Him and in His time. So very true, i just pray that the Lord isn't going to leave me the way He found me but that He will change me before the ressurection so that i may be among the firstfruits =]

God bless,

Alex

[aqrinc]

Alex,

My remark was a bit funny i thought, JW, 144k. No i do not think anyone is insinuating any such thing.
The statement i made was to reiterate my personal understanding of God's Grace and Faith we exercise
to live this now painful life. We are there if it is God's Will or not if it is not, He has Called us Already.

George.

[OBrenda]

Alex,

My remark was a bit funny i thought, JW, 144k. No i do not think anyone is insinuating any such thing.
The statement i made was to reiterate my personal understanding of God's Grace and Faith we exercise
to live this now painful life. We are there if it is God's Will or not if it is not, He has Called us Already.

George.

If there is only going to be 144,000 as the JW believe........I don't have any shot
I'm ignorant of what the numbers all mean...24 Elders...2 Witnesses....I know the "Elite" but beyong that I'm clueless,,,,

 
Brenda

[aqrinc]

Me neither, or is that either. Since All the book of Revelation is a Parable,
the 144,000 number is also part of that Parable. 

clueless is right for me too.

Geo.

[mharrell08]

If there is only going to be 144,000 as the JW believe........I don't have any shot
I'm ignorant of what the numbers all mean...24 Elders...2 Witnesses....I know the "Elite" but beyong that I'm clueless,,,,

 
Brenda

Excerpt from Lake of Fire part 4:

In ancient Israel there were three times in the year when all men were to appear before God:

1. THE WAVE SHEAF (Feast of Unleavened Bread and Passover): "Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf OF the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest ... And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the FIRST year for a burnt offering unto the Lord" (Lev. 23:10-12).
       
      COMMENT: This wave sheaf of the very first of the firstfruits is a type of our Lord Who was the perfect Lamb without blemish offered in the Spring on Passover. "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the FIRSTFRUIT of them that sleep" (I Cor. 15:20). Jesus is not the entire firstfruits but rather "the firstfruit OF them that sleep." He is the firstfruit OF the firstfruit or more precisely the "wave sheaf OF the firstfruits." Firstfruit is a term that pertains to agriculture and harvesting. It was never a theological term until introduced into the New Testament with regards to a small number who would be saved prior to a much larger number to be saved later.

2. THE FIRSTFRUITS (Feast of Weeks): "All the best of the oil , and all the best of the wine, and of the wheat, the FIRSTFRUITS of them which they shall offer unto the Lord, them have I given thee ... And whatsoever is FIRST RIPE in the land which they shall bring unto the Lord, shall be thine..." (Num. 18:12 & 13). "And now, behold, I have brought the firstfruits of the land, which thou, O Lord, has given me. And thou shalt set it before the LORD thy God, and worship before the Lord thy God" (Deut. 26:10).
       
      COMMENT: The type in the New Testament of this Old Testament symbol is the Believer. Notice what James tells us, "Of His own will begat He us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of FIRSTFRUITS of His creatures" (James 1:18). Now a very important point: How far down the road in prophecy can we go until we reach the end of the firstfruits? In Rev. 7:4-8 we read of the sealing of the 144,000. These are a different group from the great innumerable multitude, which no man could number, from every nation and tongue spoken of beginning in verse 9.
       
      In Chapter 14:1 & 4 we are told specifically who these 144,000 are: "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with Him an hundred forty and four thousand [notice that the innumerable multitudes from all nations is not mentioned here] ... These are they which were not defiled with women, for they are virgins [as in the Bride of Christ]. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, BEING THE FIRSTFRUITS unto God and to the Lamb" (Rev. 14:1 & 4). So every believer from the Apostles to the 144,000 just prior to the return of Jesus Christ to establish His reign on the earth, is called and likened to FIRSTFRUITS! So what does this have to do with the lake of fire? EVERYTHING! Everyone saved before the Day of Judging is likened to firstfruits, so there will be no more firstfruits after the white throne judgment.
       
      Paul tells us in Rom. 8:23, "And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the FIRSTFRUITS of the Spirit..." Nowhere do we read of the "LASTFRUITS," but whenever something is FIRST we also know there is something to follow. Nor are there any references to any "ONLYFRUITS." The firstfruits are clearly not the ONLY fruits! Follow this very closely now, for you are in for a big shock when you understand the type in the fall festival of Tabernacles—the great fall harvest.

3. THE END-OF-THE-YEAR FEAST OF INGATHERING (Feast of Tabernacles): "And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou has sown in the field and the FEAST OF INGATHERING, which is in the END OF THE YEAR, when you have gathered in thy labours out of the field" (Ex. 23:16).
       
      "Thou shall observe the FEAST OF TABERNACLES seven [number of perfection] days, after that you have gathered in your corn and your wine: And you shall REJOICE IN YOUR FEAST, you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, the stranger, and the widow, that are within your gates [that’s just about EVERYONE, wouldn’t you say?]. Seven days [here’s that perfect number again] shall you keep A SOLEMN FEAST [a very important feast to God] unto the LORD your God in the place which the Lord shall choose: because the Lord thy God shall bless you in all your increase, and in all the works of your hands, therefore you shalt surely REJOICE" (Deut. 16:13-15). Here truly was a festival in which EVERYONE, every single person in all Israel, and also did you notice, "the STRANGER" who was NOT an Israelite could really REJOICE! THIS FESTIVAL WAS THE HAPPIEST TIME OF THE YEAR! Do we think it will have no fulfillment in God’s grand plan of salvation?
       
      "Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, the fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the FEAST OF TABERNACLES for seven days unto the LORD. On the first day shall be an holy convocation: you shall do no servile work therein. Seven days you shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the EIGHTH DAY shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by FIRE unto the LORD: it is a SOLEMN assembly; and you shall do no servile work therein" (Lev. 23:34-36). Why is the profound and marvelous truth of this festival not taught in its proper chronological order by the prophets of Christendom? How is it even possible to avoid seeing the powerful and glorious consummation of God’s salvation in this Fall Harvest Festival? Why is the truth of this GREAT FEAST being hidden from the eyes of the world? What is it that they are trying to hide from us? God’s Word will show us.


And one from part 8:

THE CHURCH IN PHILADELPHIA

"Him that overcomes will I make a pillar [a position of great spiritual responsibility] in the temple of my God" (3:12).

That’s CHRIST,

    "And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the Chief Corner Stone; In Whom all the building fitly framed together grows unto an HOLY TEMPLE IN THE LORD" (Eph. 2:21).

Christ is our Temple for we live in Him as HIS BODY, and we are the temple of God’s Holy Spirit that lives and dwells IN US, and Christ IS that Spirit—"abide in Me, and I in you."

And "…he shall go no more out" That’s CHRIST. We are IN Christ, we are the Body of Christ, Christ is our temple, our house, where we dwell "IN Christ."

We abide and dwell in Christ and Christ abides and dwells and lives HIS LIFE in us, so that we will "go no more out," till at the consummations of all the ages, "God may be ALL in All" (I Cor. 15:28).

    "And I will write upon him the NAME OF MY GOD, and the NAME OF THE CITY of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God: and I will write upon him MY NEW NAME."

That’s CHRIST! These are honors and rewards bestowed upon us by Christ. The 144,000 (12 x 12, complete foundational kingdom of God’s government for the new world) are given the Father’s name in their foreheads (Rev. 14:1 & 22:4). Not a tattoo on the forehead skin, but inside their foreheads, in their hearts and minds.

New Jerusalem is the heavenly Jerusalem spoken of in Heb. 12:22, where "the general assembly and church of the firstborn [Christ and His anointed body of believers], which are written in heaven" is found. It is from New Jerusalem and heavenly Mt. Sion that the government of Christ will proceed in bringing Salvation to the Earth and the Universe (Isa. 2:2). I will write upon him My new name. This is the same new name that we discussed in the Church of Pergamos.

It's not a literal number...only a symbol of completeness of God's kingdom. 


Marques

[Samson]

Alex,

My remark was a bit funny i thought, JW, 144k. No i do not think anyone is insinuating any such thing.
The statement i made was to reiterate my personal understanding of God's Grace and Faith we exercise
to live this now painful life. We are there if it is God's Will or not if it is not, He has Called us Already.

George.

If there is only going to be 144,000 as the JW believe........I don't have any shot
I'm ignorant of what the numbers all mean...24 Elders...2 Witnesses....I know the "Elite" but beyong that I'm clueless,,,,

 
Brenda

Hello Brenda & George,

                               Let me explain to you to that the JW'S interpret all numbers in Revelation as Symbolic, 24 Elders, 12 Tribes, etc; EXCEPT the 144,000 anointed ones or chosen(Elect), that number they interpret to be a literal number. What the present day JW doesn't tell you is that this number(144,000) was already reached by 1935. The Organization justifies this by saying that anyone claiming to be of the Elect after 1935, are replacements of those that proved unfaithfull, like former Governing Body member, Raymond Franz and others.

                               All I can say to the above is that there must have been alot of replacements since 1935.
                               1935 was supposed to be the cut-off date and that understanding, according to them, was supposed to be from God.  

                                         Hope this helps, Samson.

[aqrinc]

Sounds like what my younger Brother 35+ years Jw and my Mother have said many times.
They of course are very sad that i am so blinded as to not see their truths. I am  so thankful
that Our God is no Respecter of persons and His Will Is That Everyone Be Saved. My Jw remarks
are somewhat derisive because (that is an Idol of my heart) to be still upset at things they said
to me which helped send me looking at other things. 

(eat drink and be merry for tomorrow you shall die) unless you are a Jw.

George.

Alex,

My remark was a bit funny i thought, JW, 144k. No i do not think anyone is insinuating any such thing.
The statement i made was to reiterate my personal understanding of God's Grace and Faith we exercise
to live this now painful life. We are there if it is God's Will or not if it is not, He has Called us Already.

George.

If there is only going to be 144,000 as the JW believe........I don't have any shot
I'm ignorant of what the numbers all mean...24 Elders...2 Witnesses....I know the "Elite" but beyong that I'm clueless,,,,

 
Brenda

Hello Brenda & George,

                               Let me explain to you to that the JW'S interpret all numbers in Revelation as Symbolic, 24 Elders, 12 Tribes, etc; EXCEPT the 144,000 anointed ones or chosen(Elect), that number they interpret to be a literal number. What the present day JW doesn't tell you is that this number(144,000) was already reached by 1935. The Organization justifies this by saying that anyone claiming to be of the Elect after 1935, are replacements of those that proved unfaithfull, like former Governing Body member, Raymond Franz and others.

                               All I can say to the above is that there must have been alot of replacements since 1935.
                               1935 was supposed to be the cut-off date and that understanding, according to them, was supposed to be from God.  

                                         Hope this helps, Samson.

[walt123]

hello all
you know what i think ,all the pastors who collects tithes from their followers,are the ones who are
running for the elect,because they have the money to be elected. ha,ha
excuse me wrong scene, thank GOD he doesn't think like man.

walt.

[OBrenda]

Thanks Marques,

Everytime I read Ray's teachings I get more out of it. 

So I understand that all these numbers are symbols of the Elect.
What I lack still is ever being taught the meanings behind them.  I suspect that people coming out of certain church backgrounds have a foundation of understanding that I'm missing.  I see that 12 x 12 = 144,000
But twelve what?  Is it 12 tribes X 12 apostles?  is the 12 + 12 = the 24 Elders?  2 Witness Old & New Testament?
Am I getting warmer?

Thanks,
Brenda

Samson....Funny how all Babylon teachings switch from symbols to literal to suit their ideals?

[mharrell08]

Thanks Marques,

Everytime I read Ray's teachings I get more out of it. 

So I understand that all these numbers are symbols of the Elect.
What I lack still is ever being taught the meanings behind them.  I suspect that people coming out of certain church backgrounds have a foundation of understanding that I'm missing.  I see that 12 x 12 = 144,000
But twelve what?  Is it 12 tribes X 12 apostles?  is the 12 + 12 = the 24 Elders?  2 Witness Old & New Testament?
Am I getting warmer?

Thanks,
Brenda

Samson....Funny how all Babylon teachings switch from symbols to literal to suit their ideals?

Yes, it's something like that but I want to state this for everyone:

I don't want to sound like I'm preaching/teaching, but let's not go over the top with this discussion and saying this symbol means this and so on. If one has SCRIPTURE, then yes, let's hear the spiritual understanding. If not, let's not break the forum rules as it will almost always end with strife.

No one needs to know what every symbol means in order for God to choose you and start you on your spiritual walk. It's all up to God. I just hope this stays on scripture and not any and everyone's interpetation (idol of the heart) of what each and every symbol means. Knowing all the symbols does not guarantee anyone being of the Elect and having a more personal relationship with Christ, which is what our number #1 goal is.

Alright, can someone help me off my soapbox please? It's pretty high up here... 


Marques