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Author Topic: The Day of The Lord  (Read 12720 times)

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aqrinc

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The Day of The Lord
« on: October 25, 2008, 05:00:53 PM »


Has Ray done any teaching on this particular Scripture. I am understanding something akin
to a reverse Big Bang. Not found Scripture yet to support this but now diligently searching.  ???

2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass
away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that
are therein shall be burned up.

George.
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eggi

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Re: The Day of The Lord
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2008, 06:38:30 PM »

George,

I see what you mean. But I see a problem with this, because it doesn't say anything about a contracting universe, or does it?
I just wonder what that great noise sounds like...

God bless you,
Eirik
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mharrell08

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Re: The Day of The Lord
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2008, 06:39:52 PM »

Hello George,

Here is an email from Ray regarding the 'Day of the Lord':

Ray-
     
    I have been reading your Secret Rapture paper and I have a question regarding the "Day of the Lord"
     
    Below is a quote from your paper:
     
    "Let us be clear, that the "day of the Lord" is the time period of Christ’s return to this earth to punish Babylon the Great and to pour out His righteous indignation on her (and on those nations who follow and worship her) for her evil crimes of inhumanity and blasphemy. Here is the order of events (Mat. 24:29-30)."
     
    I am confused by this because of two other scriptures -- Rev 1:1-5 (somewhere in there) were John states"...I was in the spirit ON THE LORD'S day" -- and in Matthew 24 where Jesus states after describing the great tribulation that "...this generation will not pass away until all these things happen.."
     
    How can the "day of the lord" be what you described above if John was "in the spirit on the lord's day" and Jesus said all these things would happen in this generation.
     
    My thinking, until now, was that the Lord's day happens now (not experienced) spiritually to the elect, not in the future literally.
     
    Can you help me understand this.
     
    Josh
     

    Dear Josh:
    Jesus didn't say His coming, or the end of the eon, or the prophecies He described would come in "HIS generation," but in "THIS generation."  What generation is "this" generation? The generation that "sees ALL THESE THINGS" (Matt. 24:34). All these things include everything in the previous verses including verses 20, 30, 31, etc. His Apostles did NOT "see ALL those things" in their day. So it is yet future. John was "in the SPIRIT" on the "Lord's Day." He was not literally there, but rather in "spirit" he saw what WILL HAPPEN on the "Lord's Day" mentioned in hundreds of Scriptures.
    God be with you,
    Ray



Also, here is an excerpt from LOF series 16 pt. D-5:

THE SECOND DEATH

It's time for another one of those enigmatic Scriptures that sound very simple, but are difficult to harmonize with all Scriptures compare "spiritual with spiritual" and believe Jesus when He tells us that His "words ARE spirit" (John 6:63). Here is that enigmatic statement:

    "And as it is appointed unto men [Gk: 'anthropose'--human, mankind] once to die, but after this the judgment"

This Scripture is all-encompassing, universal, and applies to every human who has ever lived. All humanity must die once, and after that death, they must be judged. There are no exceptions, not even for mentally challenged, teens, youngsters and even infants. (Do sound-minded Christians really believe that when babies die they go to heaven and therefore, there will be millions of eternal babies [in diapers?] living in heaven for all eternity AS BABIES?) God has a way to deal with babies and infants in the Day of Judgment that will be quite equitable -- they will grow up to be adults.

The Chosen Elect are judged now in this Church age (I Cor. 11:31), while the unrepentant, unbelieving, mentally challenged, infants, and all other such categories, are judged in the resurrection to Judgment (I Cor. 11:32)--"In that day," as the Scriptures mention so many times. The reason I don't put infants and such in the category of the wicked every time I mention the wicked and judgment, is because there are few places that mention babies in a Judgment setting, but there are some, but they are not judged as are the wicked. They will be judged for their carnality when it shows itself, as they mature.

    "Because he hath appointed a day [called that day and the Day of the Lord in many prophesies], in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that Man Whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance unto all men, in that He hath raised Him from the dead" (Acts 17:31).

Some Scriptures refer to judgment on the unrepentant, wicked, and unbelievers. Others refer to judgment on the chosen Elect of God. And still others refer to judgment on both the wicked and the Elect, but at different times.

Now get ready for a real revelation. There are two mysteries in Heb. 9:27 when applied to God's Elect:

   1.

      what and when is the "ONCE to die?"
   2.

      what and when is the "after this JUDGMENT?"

We will take up the Elect's Judgment part of this verse first.

We learned that Gehenna fire, and unquenchable fire, and eonian fire, and the furnace of fire, and being salted with fire, and the lake of fire, are all the same fire, and this fire is JUDGMENT. Now then, since the lake of fire is judgment, and the lake of fire "is" also the second death, if follows that the second death also "is" judgment. THE SECOND DEATH IS JUDGMENT, AND JUDGMENT IS THE SECOND DEATH.

Had God wanted to make things easy, He could have inspirited Heb. 9:27 to read like this: "And as it is appointed unto men ONCE to die, but after this the SECOND death."

For that is what the second death is, JUDGMENT. Likewise then, Judgment is the SECOND death. After the ONCE to die comes the SECOND to die. Or: After the FIRST death comes the SECOND death. Simple enough when God gives us eyes to see. But there is still an enigma about this verse that we will cover a little later.



I thought 'the day of the Lord' was about judgment and even physical growth for children before their judgment.


Marques
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aqrinc

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Re: The Day of The Lord
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2008, 08:08:45 PM »

Hi Eirik and Marques,

2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass
away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that
are therein shall be burned up.

In watching a totally (i think unscientific or more skewed to prove a hypothetical supposition) program on discovery channel about the end of matter; that was their conclusion. Now the program was about wandering
black holes and entropy. (The disorder evening) to (order morning) seems to be counter Entropy.

Order and disorder
Main article: Entropy (order and disorder)
Entropy, historically, has often been associated with the amount of order, disorder, and/or chaos in a thermodynamic system. The traditional definition of entropy is that it refers to changes in the status quo of the system and is a measure of "molecular disorder" and the amount of wasted energy in a dynamical energy transformation from one state or form to another.[33] In this direction, a number of authors, in recent years, have derived exact entropy formulas to account for and measure disorder and order in atomic and molecular assemblies.[34][11][35][36] One of the simpler entropy order/disorder formulas is that derived in 1984 by thermodynamic physicist Peter Landsberg, which is based on a combination of thermodynamics and information theory arguments. Landsberg argues that when constraints operate on a system, such that it is prevented from entering one or more of its possible or permitted states, as contrasted with its forbidden states, the measure of the total amount of “disorder” in the system is given by the following expression:[35][36]

 
Similarly, the total amount of "order" in the system is given by:

 
In which CD is the "disorder" capacity of the system, which is the entropy of the parts contained in the permitted ensemble, CI is the "information" capacity of the system, an expression similar to Shannon's channel capacity, and CO is the "order" capacity of the system.[11]

George.
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Akira329

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Re: The Day of The Lord
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2008, 09:49:18 PM »

Hey George,
Are you implying that the universe will shrink?
What is a reverse big bang?
It seems your implying that all the energy it took to create the universe reverse itself back into a small atom??
Why??
How Does 2 Peter 3:10 describe that??
I don't think it does.
2 Peter 3:10 Describes the Day of the Lord, Judgment in the lake of fire.

Also I think if we want to discuss scientific subjects, they be left to off topic discussions, where we can and should talk about scientific discoveries.
My opinion though.
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aqrinc

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Re: The Day of The Lord
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2008, 02:57:43 AM »

Hi A,

Just trying to see if there is any insight from Ray that i have missed out on:

2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass
away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that
are therein shall be burned up.

(But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night;) is well explained by Ray. It is after the semicolon
that i am attempting to have some discussion about. If anyone has some help or direction on that part of
the verse i would love to follow that trail for a bit. I was using reverse big bang as a possible cause for the
great noise and the elements melting. Of course this may be entirely spiritual and i am on a bum steer.

George.
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digitalwise

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Re: The Day of The Lord
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2008, 03:20:18 AM »

Found in the Revelation 20 are found these words:

Rev 20:11  And I sawG1492 a greatG3173 white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away;G5343 and there was found no place for them.

Transliterated means:

Rev 20:11 And I  saw [[εἴδω eido i'-do] literally or figuratively; by implication (in the perfect only) to know: - be aware, behold, X can (+ not tell), consider, (have) known (-ledge), look (on), perceive, see, be sure, tell, understand, wist, wot a  great [G3173 μέγας megas meg'-as Including the prolonged forms, femine μεγάλη megalē, plural μέγάλοι megaloi, etc.; compare also G3176, G3187], big (literally or figuratively, in a very wide application): - (+ fear) exceedingly, great (-est), high, large, loud, mighty, + (be) sore (afraid), strong, X to years.] white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away ;G5343 φεύγω pheugō fyoo'-go Apparently a primary verb; to run away (literally or figuratively); by implication to shun; by analogy to vanish: - escape, flee (away). and there was found no place for them.

digitalwise



« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 03:22:24 AM by digitalwise »
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mharrell08

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Re: The Day of The Lord
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2008, 03:22:33 AM »

Yea George, your last statement is where it's at...the entire scripture is spiritually and in no way literal. Just think of what the words mean:

"Heavens shall pass away"...who/what are the heavens? God dwells in the heavens; where does He dwell? In Us! We are the heavens...

"A great noise"...almost like 'a great trump'. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Cor. 15:52

"Elements shall melt; works are burned up" Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 1 Cor. 3:13 [2nd witness Rev 20:13]

Like Ray's likes to say, it's all ONE. All the scriptures speak on 1 basic principle or parable: God making man into His image. Even the 'Day of the Lord' is all about bringing humanity into His image through judgment.


Marques
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aqrinc

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Re: The Day of The Lord
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2008, 03:30:33 AM »

Thanks, digitalwise,

A match seems to be here, i will take some time with these scriptures.

george.

Found in the Revelation 20 are found these words:

Rev 20:11  And I sawG1492 a greatG3173 white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away;G5343 and there was found no place for them.

Transliterated means:

Rev 20:11 And I  saw [[εἴδω eido i'-do] literally or figuratively; by implication (in the perfect only) to know: - be aware, behold, X can (+ not tell), consider, (have) known (-ledge), look (on), perceive, see, be sure, tell, understand, wist, wot a  great [G3173 μέγας megas meg'-as Including the prolonged forms, femine μεγάλη megalē, plural μέγάλοι megaloi, etc.; compare also G3176, G3187], big (literally or figuratively, in a very wide application): - (+ fear) exceedingly, great (-est), high, large, loud, mighty, + (be) sore (afraid), strong, X to years.] white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away ;G5343 φεύγω pheugō fyoo'-go Apparently a primary verb; to run away (literally or figuratively); by implication to shun; by analogy to vanish: - escape, flee (away). and there was found no place for them.

digitalwise




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aqrinc

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Re: The Day of The Lord
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2008, 03:38:25 AM »

marques,

I hope you mean (entirely spiritual  ???) and not a (bum steer  :-X). Seriously, thanks for the neck up check up;
it was staring me in the face but i was looking past it.

george.

Yea George, your last statement is where it's at...the entire scripture is spiritually and in no way literal. Just think of what the words mean:

"Heavens shall pass away"...who/what are the heavens? God dwells in the heavens; where does He dwell? In Us! We are the heavens...

"A great noise"...almost like 'a great trump'. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Cor. 15:52

"Elements shall melt; works are burned up" Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 1 Cor. 3:13 [2nd witness Rev 20:13]

Like Ray's likes to say, it's all ONE. All the scriptures speak on 1 basic principle or parable: God making man into His image. Even the 'Day of the Lord' is all about bringing humanity into His image through judgment.


Marques
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Kat

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Re: The Day of The Lord
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2008, 11:54:30 AM »


Hi George,

Another point is that when Christ returns He will rule on earth.  Of course earth has the application of meaning all the nations on earth.  So Christ will rule the earth physically/the land and spiritually/people.

Jer 23:5  "Behold, the days are coming," says the LORD,
       "That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness;
       A King shall reign and prosper,
       And execute judgment and righteousness in the earth.

 Jer 25:33  "And at that day the slain of the LORD shall be from one end of the earth even to the other end of the earth. They shall not be lamented, or gathered, or buried; they shall become refuse on the ground.

Zec 14:9  And the LORD shall be King over all the earth.
       In that day it shall be--
       "The LORD is one,"
       And His name one.

Rev 5:10  And have made us kings and priests to our God;
       And we shall reign on the earth."

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: The Day of The Lord
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2008, 12:32:19 PM »


Excerpt from http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4633.0.html

But the word "day--yom" has a multitude of uses representing different lengths of time:

"From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially): - age, chronicles, as (so) long as, season..." Dr. Strong.

In Gen. 2:4, the SAME SIX DAYS of Gen. 1 are called "THE [singular] day."  The whole judgment period of the whole world is called "A day" in Acts 17:31, etc. ......


Also note excerpt from http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3460.0.html

This age is NOT the time for the salvation of all. This is "a" day of salvation, but not "the" day or only day of salvation. See my HELL Part D
« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 01:24:24 PM by Arcturus »
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digitalwise

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Re: The Day of The Lord
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2008, 10:26:19 PM »

The earth will PASS AWAY.
The heavens will PASS away.

Revelation 20 leads to.........................................

Rev 21:1  And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

What does it say in Rev 20:11? - EARTH and Heaven Flee from the face of HIM.

digitalwise


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Marlene

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Re: The Day of The Lord
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2008, 12:57:18 AM »

Hello, I have a question. In Mat. 24 29-30. what or who is this Babylon the Great who all the nations worship? It sounds like a particular nation if he comes back to punish her and all the nations who worship her. Does Ray have anything about this.

In His Love,
Marlene
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aqrinc

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Re: The Day of The Lord
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2008, 01:49:58 AM »

Hi Marlene,

Here is an excerpt from lake of Fire Part: 1

http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html

Will people be literally tattooed with marks (bar codes, swastikas, Social Security numbers, implanted with computer chips or one of a hundred unscriptural marks being suggested by fundamentalist prophets) in their hands and on their foreheads so that men cannot buy or sell ice cream or automobiles without these marks? Self-appointed prophets of doom haven’t a clue as to what this mark of the beast really is or the number of his name. I have already been barred from buying and selling recently because I refuse to brandish this "mark of the beast"!

Chapter 14, Does Babylon cause all nations to literally drink of the wine of the literal wrath of her fornication? I thought wine came from grapes not wrath (of course there is that famous novel, The Grapes of Wrath).

Chapter 15, Are the seven last global plagues and catastrophes really contained in seven literal tiny gold vials or bottles?

Chapter 16, Is Jesus Christ going to return to this earth as a literal "thief"? Will every island and mountain on earth literally disappear?

Chapter 17, Will there really be a woman who will ride a literal scarlet coloured beast, having seven heads and ten horns. Can whole nations literally fornicate with a harlot? But here once more in this chapter God does reveal to us who this beast is and what the symbolic horns represent which again proves that ALL OF THESE THINGS are not literal but symbolic and represent things other than what is being described.

Chapter 18, Will the entire social, political, and economic system of the world literally collapse in just one hour because one literal city (Babylon) is destroyed?

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Marlene

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Re: The Day of The Lord
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2008, 02:19:59 AM »

Hi, Thanks for showing me I need to go and read the Lake of Fire Series Part 1. Its been a little while since I read it. I have some of that old teaching of Rev. that needs burned out of my thoughts.

In His Love,
Marlene
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aqrinc

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Re: The Day of The Lord
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2008, 02:50:00 AM »

Marlene,

Glad i could show it again, it also made me reread and find more light. funny how the truth keeps on giving.

love and hugs,

george.

« Last Edit: November 02, 2008, 04:44:45 PM by aqr »
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Kat

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Re: The Day of The Lord
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2008, 12:54:12 PM »


Hi Marlene,

Quote
what or who is this Babylon the Great who all the nations worship?

I thought I would add to what George has already brought out.  This is an excerpt from the #13 article in the Lake of Fire.

http://bible-truths.com/lake13.html ------

Whenever someone is called of God and he repents, is baptized, confirmed, initiated, or whatever, it is into a church. And sooner or later that particular church will bring you to the point where you will leave your first love for God and turn to the church and its religion as the idol of your heart. God calls His people OUT of the Babylonish System of Religion which has a strangle hold on ‘The Church.’

"Mystery Babylon the Great" is a CHURCH! But it is also A SPIRITUAL WHORE:

"For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to JERUSALEM which now is, and is in bondage with HER CHILDREN. But Jerusalem which is ABOVE is free, which is the MOTHER OF US ALL" (Gal. 4:25-26).

Jerusalem above is our MOTHER. Jerusalem below is also a MOTHER with children in bondage. Revelation speaks clearly of this Mother and her Children:

"And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will show unto you the judgment of the GREAT WHORE that sits upon many waters [peoples and nations and tongues]:

With whom the kings of the earth have committed [spiritual] FORNICATION, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a WOMAN [a church] sit upon a scarlet colored WILD BEAST, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls [possessing many of the blessings of God including the pearls of God’s Word], having a gold cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

And upon her forehead was a name written,

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND
ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH"
(Rev. 17:1-5).
-----------------------------------

I hope that is helpful  :)

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Marlene

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Re: The Day of The Lord
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2008, 01:57:59 PM »

Hello Kat, Thanks alot. Yes it helps. I realize that now that I have left I see many things I never saw before. I have been reading Rays articles again. It is so indoctrinated in us. I had not believed in tithe for quite a while before I left. Also, I was finding most of the different belives towards salvation confusing. Ray's teachings is the only thing that makes sense.

In His Love,
Marlene
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aqrinc

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Re: The Day of The Lord
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2008, 02:46:31 AM »

« Last Edit: November 02, 2008, 04:58:21 PM by aqr »
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