> General Discussions
Saints
digitalwise:
Dear Heidi
Church of God is a GENERIC term for an assembly of people in Christ's name - that is all.
Look at the co-concordant translation:
Assembly is a description of many meeting together not a qualification in being a saint.
hallowed [sanctified] in Christ Jesus, called saints, together with all in every place who are invoking the name of our Lord, Jesus Christ, both theirs and ours:"
It is noted that Armstrongism [of that movement I was once a part] - described the Church of God as their only name.
What is then a legitimate Assembly of God then?
I would have thought those CALLING or invoking the Name of Jesus along with this reference of OTHER assemblies are believers hence saints.
Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
The concordant seems to say more emphatic that we are saints ALREADY provided the condition of Christ's santification - past tense is met as the condition. - to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints,
Who then are beloved of God?
Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Do we have to be in Rome to be beloved of God or called saints?
Likewise the church or "ecclesia of God" phrase - the qualification to a saint is not on the phrase "church" but rather the action of Christ's grace on the individual believer - that is the real determinate of whether you are a saint or not. Thus sanctified by the Christ is real cause in being a saint not the assembly.
digitalwise
mharrell08:
2 Great bible studies by Ray:
'How hard is Getting Saved' [http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3849.0.html]
and
'Can We lose God's spirit and Eonian life' [http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7047.0.html]
I think can give further insight on this issue. Remember, 'The sum of thy Word is true' Ps 119:160 CLV. Here's a great analogy from Ray's March 2008 bible study:
What good does it do when a police officer stops you for speeding and you start outlining to him all the time, that you didn’t speed? You say, ‘officer I drove this road yesterday twice and I did not speed. I took my wife to the doctor and I did not speed. I went down town and I didn’t speed. I went out on the highway and went over to Pensacola and I didn’t speed.’ I mean how much weight is that going to carry?
The officer says, ‘ but now you are speeding. That’s good that you didn’t speed then, but that will not allow you to start speeding now.’
How simple is that. Can a child understand that? If you punish a child because he was bad and he says, ‘but mommy I was good yesterday and I was good the day before.’ She says, ‘well that’s good, that’s admiral, but you’ve got to be good today too.’ How simple is that.
Well a lot of these people can’t understand it. I’m not poking fun at them, I mean they sincerely can’t, because no one has ever taught them these things.
Hope this helps those who need more understanding,
Marques
ScarletWren:
Do we have to be in Rome to be beloved of God or called saints?
Likewise the church or "ecclesia of God" phrase - the qualification to a saint is not on the phrase "church" but rather the action of Christ's grace on the individual believer - that is the real determinate of whether you are a saint or not. Thus sanctified by the Christ is real cause in being a saint not the assembly.
digitalwise
Exactly!!
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: ScarletWren on October 26, 2008, 02:19:57 PM ---Truly those who overcome are saints, but does that mean the rest of the assembly are not called saints?
--- End quote ---
Hello,
I don't mean to single out Scarlet, but I wanted to really get to the heart of the matter regarding this subject. I work in IT so it's kind of my nature to get to the root of an issue.
This is why earlier I referenced Ray's bible study on 'Can We lose God's spirit and Eonian life'. The first half of Scarlet's statement is absolutely true. Those who overcome are the elect/saints/disciples/'him who overcomes'/etc. They shall, with Christ, judge the world [1 Cor. 6:2]
The second half, the question of are the rest of the assembly called saints, is if they do not overcome, then NO they are not saints. At the time of Paul's letter, these believers were abiding in the truth as most members of this forum are. But we all as well as those in Paul's time, has to endure to the end. If we or any of those back then fell away, then we are no longer saints and only judgment awaits us at the resurrection.
So yes, YOU CAN LOSE God's spirit and eonian life. But only God knows that are His and rarely will you even know if one has fallen away from the truth unless they blatantly speak heresy and contradictions.
Again, look at the words of our Lord and Saviour:
John 8:31
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
These Jews, who believed, were 'His disciples indeed' IF they continued. At the moment Christ made this statement, these Jews were His disciples. But they had to continue! Were they disciples when they were yelling with the crowd, 'Crucify him!' [John 19:15]. Of course not...that's why 'the SUM of thy Word is true'.
Then said Jesus to those Jews [We are now Jews (Rom. 2:29)] which believed on Him [do we not all believe?], IF ye continue in my Word [it's a process, see?] THEN are ye my disciples [disciples/elect/saints/'him who overcomes'/etc.]indeed;
We are all on the path, like the congregations that Paul spoke to, but we must continue. The 'many are called' are NOT ON THE PATH. They have chosen the road to destruction. [Matt. 7:13]
Marques
Rene:
This topic has run it's course, which is why I am locking it.
Thanks.
René
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