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Author Topic: rev 13:10  (Read 2183 times)

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chuckt

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rev 13:10
« on: October 29, 2008, 02:53:27 PM »

Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword…


thoughts.....and or does ray have anything on this?

thanks
chuckt
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mharrell08

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Re: rev 13:10
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2008, 03:44:59 PM »

2 Cor 10

3  For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4  (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
6  And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.


Eph 6:12  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

2 Chr 29:9  For, lo, our fathers have fallen by the sword, and our sons and our daughters and our wives are in captivity for this.

Ezra 3:8  Now in the second year of their coming unto the house of God at Jerusalem, in the second month, began Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and Jeshua the son of Jozadak, and the remnant of their brethren the priests and the Levites, and all they that were come out of the captivity unto Jerusalem; and appointed the Levites [YOU are a royal priesthood...1 Pet. 2:9], from twenty years old and upward, to set forward the work of the house of the LORD.

Ps 68:18  Thou[Christ] hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.

I looked through Ray's paper, LOF #13 'Who is the Beast?' and this one verse wasn't touched on but the rest of the chapter was as all of it deals with the Beast. I'll put these questions for you to see what I have in mind:

Spiritually, what is captivity?

Spiritually, what is killeth?

Spiritually, Who is 'He' in this whole chapter?

How will 'He' go into captivity? By whom? (Ps 68:18 & Ep 4:8 for clues)

Spiritually, what is a sword?

Now do you get it? Look at the children of Israel taken into captivity...'all these were done for OUR ADMONITION' [1 Cor 10:11]. I'm not trying to be secretive, but I can't formulate into words what I want to say exactly.  :D
« Last Edit: October 29, 2008, 03:47:24 PM by mharrell08 »
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chuckt

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Re: rev 13:10
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2008, 03:51:58 PM »

Quote
Now do you get it?




greetings,

thanks for the input.

2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,


2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

most of what you said is what i lean twords also, just wanting confimation and different takes..... :-*



peace
chuckt
« Last Edit: October 29, 2008, 03:53:28 PM by chuckt »
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Martinez

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Re: rev 13:10
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2008, 07:15:02 PM »

Killed in scripture is something I've been grapeling with lately.
When I am finally given understanding of what killed and kill is in scriptures, I think the bible will open up in a whole new way.

2Co 3:6  Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Rom 8:6  For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

So could it be that to be killed spiritually is to be given over to a carnal mind, that is given no spiritual understanding of the scriptures so that you see everything only in the letter?


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mharrell08

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Re: rev 13:10
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2008, 07:27:31 PM »

Killed in scripture is something I've been grapeling with lately.
When I am finally given understanding of what killed and kill is in scriptures, I think the bible will open up in a whole new way.

2Co 3:6  Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Rom 8:6  For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

So could it be that to be killed spiritually is to be given over to a carnal mind, that is given no spiritual understanding of the scriptures so that you see everything only in the letter?


Absolutely Martinez...you nailed that one right on the head.

As Israel was led into captivity by physical enemies, we [spiritual Israel] are let into 'spiritual captivity' by 'powers and principalities'. But these spiritual enemies will perish by the sword, which is the Word of God. Now, how come I couldn't put that little bit together before?  ;D


Marques
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Heidi

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Re: rev 13:10
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2008, 09:19:49 PM »

Killed in scripture is something I've been grapeling with lately.
When I am finally given understanding of what killed and kill is in scriptures, I think the bible will open up in a whole new way.

2Co 3:6  Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Rom 8:6  For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

So could it be that to be killed spiritually is to be given over to a carnal mind, that is given no spiritual understanding of the scriptures so that you see everything only in the letter?


Absolutely Martinez...you nailed that one right on the head.

As Israel was led into captivity by physical enemies, we [spiritual Israel] are let into 'spiritual captivity' by 'powers and principalities'. But these spiritual enemies will perish by the sword, which is the Word of God. Now, how come I couldn't put that little bit together before?  ;D


Marques

Now it makes sense to me as well, thanks for clearing it up because I was a bit confused  ??? when first reading the post.



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Martinez

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Re: rev 13:10
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2008, 06:02:59 AM »

Yes but.......then you've got this verse.

Rev 6:9  And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10  And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11  And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.


I was thinking that to be killed was to be left in the dark and not understand spiritual matters but the above verse doesn't seem to be that way, but I could be wrong!

Could it be that there is a positive and a negative application of being killed?
« Last Edit: October 30, 2008, 06:04:57 AM by Martinez »
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chuckt

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Re: rev 13:10
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2008, 08:02:24 AM »

Quote
Could it be that there is a positive and a negative application of being killed?

absolutly!

chuckt
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Rene

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Re: rev 13:10
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2008, 09:01:47 AM »


Could it be that there is a positive and a negative application of being killed?


Hi Martinez,

Here are a couple of email replies from Ray that fit into this topic.

René

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6893.0.html

Dear Jason:  I will make a few COMMENTS in your email..................

COMMENT:  You do not understand the 6th commandment. It does not say "Thou shalt not KILL" in the Hebrew manuscripts. It says, "Thou shalt not MURDER." Big big difference. Soldiers kill in war, they do not murder. Murder is the illegal killing of someone. When God told the Israelite to kill all of the pagans which were committing every conceivable kind of crime including burning the little children in fire, He was not telling them to commit sin. It was not a sin to kill these people at God's command, because they were not "murdering" them which would have been breaking God's commandment and which then would have been a contradiction.

Ray


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1908.0.html

Dear Ray,

Why did God command Israel to murder in the OT despite the commandment "Thou Shall Not Kill"? Didnt Jesus say, "love your enemies"?

Thanks for everything, God has truly blessed me through your site. Hope to hear from you soon God bless.
 
Joed

Dear Joed:

You have it completely backwards:  God commanded Israel to "kill" their enemies, however, the seventh commandment is "thou shalt not MURDER." The same holds for the New Tesament commandment (Matt. 5:21). The translators didn't quite get that one right.  God used his physical nation of Israel to Judge the heathens in the land of Canaan, where as in the future God will use his Spiritual Nation of Israel to Judge the whole word system of Babylon the Great.

God be with you,
Ray

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Patrick

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Re: rev 13:10
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2008, 12:17:37 PM »

Quote from: Rene

You do not understand the 6th commandment.


the seventh commandment is "thou shalt not MURDER."



 :)


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