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Author Topic: Fire  (Read 7274 times)

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rocky

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Fire
« on: May 25, 2006, 12:03:40 AM »

I read this on Ray's site tonight, LOF series #3.  

Is "fire" in the book of Revelation DIFFERENT from the fire that tries the works of believers in the book of I Corinthians? NO. The word "fire" used in the four examples above concerning believers, is the SAME word "fire" used in the book of Revelation concerning non-believers:

STRONG’s Greek Dictionary of the New Testament, page 219, #4442, pur; a primary word; "fire" (literally OR FIGURATIVELY. Pur is used (besides its ordinary natural significance):

(1) of the holiness of God, which consumes all that is inconsistent therewith, Heb. 10:27; 12:29; cf. Rev. 1:14; 2:18; 10:1; 15:2; 19:12;

(1a) similarly of the holy angels as His ministers, Heb. 1:7;

(1b) in Rev. 3:18 it is SYMBOLIC of that which tries the faith of saints, PRODUCING WHAT WILL GLORIFY THE LORD;

(2) of the divine judgment, testing the deeds of believers, at the judgment seat of Christ I Cor. 3:13 and 15;

(3) of the fire of DIVINE JUDGMENT upon the REJECTERS of Christ, Matt. 3:11 (where a distinction is to be made between the baptism of the holy Spirit at Pentecost and the "fire" of divine retribution; Acts 2:3 could not refer to baptism); Lk. 3:16."

End of quotation, (All CAPS emphasis are mine).


I then looked at this verse in James,

Jam 3:6  And the tongue is a fire (pur): the world of iniquity among our members is the tongue, which defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire (different strong's number, not pur)  the wheel of nature, and is set on fire (again not pur)  by hell.

Here it is with strongs numbers

Jam 3:6  And2532 the3588 tongue1100 is a fire,4442 a world2889 of iniquity;93 so3779 is2525 the3588 tongue1100 among1722 our2257 members,3196 that it defileth4695 the3588 whole3650 body,4983 and2532 setteth on fire5394 the3588 course5164 of nature;1078 and2532 it is set on fire5394 of5259 hell.1067


Our God is a consuming fire (pur)

Heb 12:29  For1063 (2532) our2257 God2316 is a consuming2654 fire.4442



I find it interesting, that pur can be both God, and the tongue (that defiles the whole body).  

Seems like strong's left out the definition regarding the tongue.  

Wondering if I am looking at this correctly, and what others thoughts are on this.
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chrissiela

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Fire
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2006, 09:24:23 AM »

Rocky,

We are judged 'out of our own mouth' and the TONGUE has the power OF LIFE AND DEATH. It is with the TONGUE that we must profess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

I see these things as all being connected.

Look at the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. His TONGUE was tormented in the fire.... he wanting 'a drop of water' to cool his TONGUE.

I will try to put something together better than 'this'  :lol:  :lol:  but just thought that might give you something to consider and look at.  :mrgreen:


Blessings,
Chrissie
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eutychus

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Fire
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2006, 09:32:25 AM »

good points Chrissie,

can we apply this:

Mar 7:20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

peace
chuck


Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: [if I say], I [am] perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.
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rocky

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Fire
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2006, 10:39:26 AM »

God is a consuming fire.   The tongue is a fire.  The tongue condemns, God's consuming fire condemns.  Destruction before Life????  

Will look forward to more Chrissie.


Here is those same verses in Youngs

Jam 3:6  and the tongue is a fire, the world of the unrighteousness, so the tongue is set in our members, which is spotting our whole body, and is setting on fire the course of nature, and is set on fire by the gehenna.


Rom 7:23  and I behold another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of the sin that is in my members.




Jam 3:7  For every nature, both of beasts and of fowls, both of creeping things and things of the sea, is subdued, and hath been subdued, by the human nature,


Jam 3:8  and the tongue no one of men is able to subdue, it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison,

Jam 3:9  with it we do bless the God and Father, and with it we do curse the men made according to the similitude of God;

Jam 3:10  out of the same mouth doth come forth blessing and cursing; it doth not need, my brethren, these things so to happen;


Gal 2:19  for I through law, did die, that to God I may live;

 
Gal 5:15  and if one another ye do bite and devour, see--that ye may not by one another be consumed.

Gal 5:16  And I say: In the Spirit walk ye, and the desire of the flesh ye may not complete;

Gal 5:17  for the flesh doth desire contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit contrary to the flesh, and these are opposed one to another, that the things that ye may will--these ye may not do;


Some kind of connection here, tongue, destroys, no man can tame.  Brings forth death??  

Through this death comes forth life???


Is the deadly poison of the tongue that no man can tame the same as the consuming fire of God, that administers destruction in order for Life, all a part of the function of the law????
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rocky

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Fire
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2006, 10:44:01 AM »

Just thought of one more thing, speaking in tongues, a new tongue, not from the old, fleshly nature, tongue;  but the tongue of the spirit, that blesses the father.

The old tongue condems, leads to death, a fire that destroys.  

The new tongue, one that praises, blesses the father, through the spirit.  


ONly seeing pieces here, please anyone fill in the gaps.  thanks.
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chrissiela

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Fire
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2006, 11:05:36 AM »

The power of life and DEATH is in the tongue:

    Prov 18:21
Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it SHALL EAT THE FRUIT thereof.[/list:u]


And we are told that we can “taste� of death:

    Mark 9:1 That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not
taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power. [/list:u]

How can we 'taste' of death if we don't KNOW that we are 'dead'? The dead know not anything.  :shock: So do we KNOW that we are dead or 'taste' death before we are brought to judgment? And our TONGUES are "set on fire of hell"?  :?:


We condemn ourselves by those things which we PROFESS “out of our own mouths�... All these things are found in ‘the tongue’…. iniquity, boastings, deceit, lies, foolishness, etc.

    Job 6:30 Is there
iniquity in my tongue? cannot my TASTE discern perverse things?

Pro 15:2 The tongue of the wise useth knowledge aright: but the mouth of fools poureth out foolishness.

Psalm 52:4 Thou lovest all devouring words,  O thou deceitful tongue

Psalm 120:2-3 Deliver my soul, O LORD, from lying lips, and from a deceitful tongue. What shall be given unto thee? or what shall be done unto thee, thou false tongue?

Psa 109:2  For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.

Jer 9:8 Their TONGUE is as an arrow shot out; it speaketh deceit: one speaketh peaceably to his neighbour with his mouth, but in heart he layeth his wait.

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious and BRIDLETH NOT his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.  

Rev 3:17 Because thou SAYEST, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.[/list:u]



But NO MAN can ‘tame the tongue’….

    Jam 3:8  But
the tongue can no man tame; it is an UNRULY EVIL, full of DEADLY poison. (how bout those arrows?? :shock: )[/list:u]


It is by our ‘fruits’ that we are to be known…. And we will ‘eat’ the fruit of our TONGUE (words) if we don’t “cut it out�. (If thy hand or foot – how about that TONGUE? – offend thee……)

    Prov 18:21
Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof. [/list:u]


But it WILL be tamed  :wink:  even CUT OUT!!   :shock:

    Pro 10:31
The mouth of the just bringeth forth wisdom: but the froward tongue shall be cut out. [/list:u]


Man may not be able to tame the tongue, but the Lord can…

    1Peter 3:10 For he that will love life, and see good days,
let him refrain his tongue from evil  and his lips that they speak no guile:

Prov 21:23 Whoso keepeth his MOUTH and his TONGUE keepeth his soul from troubles.

James 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.  (The bridle goes in the MOUTH!  :shock: )

1Peter 2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil SPEAKINGS,

Rev 14:5 And in their mouth was found NO GUILE: for they are without fault before the throne of God.


Psa 39:1 <To the chief Musician, even to Jeduthun, A Psalm of David.> I said, I will take heed to my ways, that I sin not with my tongue: I will keep my MOUTH with a bridle, while the wicked is before me.[/list:u]

Even God's WORD has gone out of his MOUTH... and there is NO LIE... and it will NOT return VOID.

    Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself,
the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every TONGUE shall swear.

Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Phi 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. [/list:u]


Talk about the power of life and death being in the tongue…  

    Rom 10:9 That
if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. [/list:u]

The tongue seems to be what is ‘set on fire of hell’ (wasn’t that the case with Lazarus?)

    James 3:5-6 Even so
the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! the tongue is a FIRE, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire OF HELL.

Luk 19:22  And he saith unto him, Out of thine own MOUTH will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:[/list:u]


There is so much more... and I see that you have been looking at it... I hope that I didn't repost all of the same verse that you did. I didn't 'check' first.  :oops:

Chrissie
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Daniel

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Fire
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2006, 12:24:26 PM »

Great observation Rocky, I'm posting this buut realizing I have some verses Chrissie has included in her post. Off studying and come back to post to find out shes posted before myself here :lol:  Great post Chrissie!


Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. The TONGUE has the POWER of LIFE and DEATH. Jesus has THE KEYS to DEATH and HELL, ironically the TONGUE is set on fire OF HELL. I'm sure this connects to giving account for words.

Job 6:24 Teach me, and I will HOLD MY TONGUE:  and CAUSE ME[/b] to UNDERSTAND "wherein I have erred".

Rocky writes

Quote
The old tongue condems, leads to death, a fire that destroys.

The new tongue, one that praises, blesses the father, through the spirit.


I agree Rocky

I ran the words "power of death" this is interesting

Prov 18:21 DEATH[/u] and "life" are in THE POWER OF THE TONGUE:[/u] and they that love it shall EAT THE FFRUIT THEREOF. [/u] (talk about eating the very words of your mouth)


Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he "MIGHT DESTROY HIM" that had THE POWER OF DEATH that is, the devil;[/u]

Job 41:1 Canst thou DRAW OUT leviathan[/b]  with an hook? or his tongue[/u] with a cord which "THOU" LETTEST  down?

2Thes 2:7 For the MYSTERY of INIQUITY "doth already work" only HE who now LETTETH will let,  until he "be taken out of the way."

James 3:6the TONGUE is a FIRE, "A WORLD" of INIQUITY[/u]  


Isaiah 57:4 Against whom[/u] do ye sport yourselves? AGAINST WHOM make ye a WIDE MOUTH, andDRAW OUT THE TONGUE?[/u]  are ye not children of transgression, a seed of falsehood  

Mathew 5:29 it is PROFITABLE FOR THEE that one of THY "MEMBERS" SHOULD PERISH[/u]

James 3:7 so is THE TONGUE among OUR AMONG "OUR MEMBERS", that IT DEFILETH the WHOLE BODY, and setteth on fire the course "of nature"; and it is set on fire OF HELL. (you speak from it)


Zech 14:12 .... THEIR TONGUE shall "CONSUME AWAY" IN THEIR MOUTH.[/u]  (Go back and read this)

James 3:6 a the TONGUE is a FIRE

Luke 6:24 .... COOL MY TONGUE; for I am tormented in "THIS FLAME".[/u] (our WORDS)

James 3:5 Even so THE TONGUE is a little MEMBER, and BOASTETH GREAT THING. BEHOLD, how GREAT a MATTER a LITTLE FIRE kindleth!

Rev 3:17 Because thou SAYEST, I AM RICH, and INCREASED WITH GOODS, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and POOR, and blind, and naked:

Job 31:12 For it is A FIRE that "consumeth to destruction", and would ROOT OUT  ALL MINE INCREASE.[/u]


Psalm 1:23 What shall be given UNTO THEE? or what shall be done UNTO THEE, thou FALSE TONGUE?[/u]

Psalm 552:4 Thou LOVEST all DEVOURING WORDS,  O thou DECEITFUL TONGUE [/u] (Life and death in the tongue those who LOVE IT will eat its FRUIT)

Prov 18:20 A man's belly "shall be satisfied" with the FRUIT OF HIS MOUTH; and with the "INCREASE of his LIPS" SHALL HE BE FILLED. (as a man soweth hhe shall reap)

Being "Filled" by one or the other, REAPING what one is SOWING

Romans 1:29 BEING FILLED with ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNES, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Phil 1:11 BEING FILLED with the FRUITS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Prov 15:4 A "WHOLESOME TONGUE" IS A TREE OF LIFE: but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit.

Wow, what a promise

Psalm 50:23 Whoso "offereth praise glorifieth ME": and TO HIM that ORDERETH HIS CONVERSATION ARIGHT will I SHEW the SALVATION OF GOD.

1Peter 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so BE YE HOLY IN ALL MANNER OF CONVERSATION[/u]

Job 37:19 TEACH US what we shall say unto him; for WE CANNOT ORDER OUR SPEECH "by reason of darkness." (ye were "sometimes darkness, but now ye are light in the Lord)

Job 6:24 Teach me, and I will HOLD MY TONGUE:  and CAUSE ME to UNDERSTAND "wherein I have erred".[/b]

James 1:26  If ANY MAN AMONG YOU "seem to be religious", and BRIDLETH NOT HIS TONGUE, but "deceiveth his own heart", THIS MAN'S religion IS VAIN[/u]

James 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man OFFEND NOT IN WORD, the same  "a perfect man", and ABLE ALSO TO BRIDLE THE WHOLE BODY[/u]

1Cr 9:27 But I KEEP UNDER MY BODY, and BRING IT INTO SUBJECTION: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, "I myself should be a castaway."

I see it as being judged and measured and filled by our own words there is TONS MORE on this. As Chrissie pointed out the EVERY TONGUE CONFESSING He is LORD is the tongue by its confession unto LIFE. Shows the TONGUE plays a vital role here.

Sorry Chrissie we were digging at the same time and I do have some repeated verses you have already gathered. Its not a bad thing to be "reminded of things" and sometimes the order from how we are lled to write them helps us see these things from various positions.

Wonderful post

Daniel
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chrissiela

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Fire
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2006, 12:32:24 PM »

That's ok, daniel. I overposted Rocky... you can over post me... and we'll all just stick out our TONGUES at one another  :P   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Good Post, both of you... LOTS of stuff in the study of the tongue!  :shock:

Blessings,
Chrissie
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chrissiela

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Fire
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2006, 12:44:32 PM »

Quote from: eutychus
good points Chrissie,

can we apply this:

Mar 7:20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

peace
chuck


Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: [if I say], I [am] perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.


Absolutely.... we can either bless or CURSE with our tongue/mouth.

... to salvation.... or destruction.

Chrissie
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chrissiela

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Fire
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2006, 12:46:36 PM »

Zec 14:12  And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.


Chrissie
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Daniel

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Fire
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2006, 12:51:23 PM »

I'm still editing the darn thing because I keep screwing up with all the bolding and underlining :lol: Amen Chrissie  The tongue is LOADED in scripture. You can draw the same picture several ways. To me it helps immensely in driving the point home. Mouth, lips, tongue, sword, fire, arrows, bows etc. From these you can say the exact same things. Jesus who spoke of our words surrely was not kidding. That tongue being a little member seems like a great mystery revealed. A study worth it, a real eye opener at many levels.

Going back now to reallign "the underline" for the fourth time :roll:  How did I keep missing that on "preveiw"?

Daniel
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SOTW

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Fire
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2006, 08:26:32 PM »

:) good stuff.
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gmik

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fire
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2006, 09:51:04 PM »

A wholesome tongue is like the tree of life-isn't the tree of life Jesus?

The tongue can bless the Father and curse his brother-isn't  that like the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

one tree-one root-comes good and evil

one tongue-good and evil

Not sure if this is anything or not.
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Joey Porter

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Fire
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2006, 02:16:01 AM »

Interesting discussion about the tongue.  Does anyone have any insight or see any spiritual symbolism in the story of Gideon?

Judges 7
5 So Gideon took the men down to the water. There the LORD told him, "Separate those who lap the water with their tongues like a dog from those who kneel down to drink." 6 Three hundred men lapped with their hands to their mouths. All the rest got down on their knees to drink.

 7 The LORD said to Gideon, "With the three hundred men that lapped I will save you and give the Midianites into your hands. Let all the other men go, each to his own place." 8 So Gideon sent the rest of the Israelites to their tents but kept the three hundred, who took over the provisions and trumpets of the others.


Lapping water (Christ) with our tongues like a dog (the dogs licked Lazarus' sores, also the Canaanite woman likened herself to a dog.)
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chrissiela

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Fire
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2006, 10:34:05 AM »

Quote from: Joey Porter
Interesting discussion about the tongue.  Does anyone have any insight or see any spiritual symbolism in the story of Gideon?

Judges 7
5 So Gideon took the men down to the water. There the LORD told him, "Separate those who lap the water with their tongues like a dog from those who kneel down to drink." 6 Three hundred men lapped with their hands to their mouths. All the rest got down on their knees to drink.

 7 The LORD said to Gideon, "With the three hundred men that lapped I will save you and give the Midianites into your hands. Let all the other men go, each to his own place." 8 So Gideon sent the rest of the Israelites to their tents but kept the three hundred, who took over the provisions and trumpets of the others.


Lapping water (Christ) with our tongues like a dog (the dogs licked Lazarus' sores, also the Canaanite woman likened herself to a dog.)


WOW!! Very interesting. I'm not at all familiar with those particular verses, but that is certainly something to look at isn't it?  :wink:

I'm just heading out to the dentist so can't look at it now, but one of the first things that came to my mind was one of the things you mention about the 'dogs' and how the "Gentiles" were considered 'dogs'.

I also noticed that they were on 'all fours' and we to be "at His feet" and that they were not using 'their own hands'????

Now I'll have something to think about while I'm sitting in the dentist's chair!!  :lol:

Chrissie
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Steve Crook

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Fire
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2006, 11:07:54 AM »

Yeah, I just thought, is there anything to taking the water from your hand to your tongue, versus quickly drinking it on your hands and knees. Seems it would take a little longer to go from river, to hand, to tongue instead of directly from the river. There must be something to the process of it "working in our hands" first, before it hits our tongues?

Very interesting indeed.
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Daniel

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Fire
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2006, 01:15:33 PM »

Quote from: chrissiela
Quote from: Joey Porter
Interesting discussion about the tongue.  Does anyone have any insight or see any spiritual symbolism in the story of Gideon?

Judges 7
5 So Gideon took the men down to the water. There the LORD told him, "Separate those who lap the water with their tongues like a dog from those who kneel down to drink." 6 Three hundred men lapped with their hands to their mouths. All the rest got down on their knees to drink.

 7 The LORD said to Gideon, "With the three hundred men that lapped I will save you and give the Midianites into your hands. Let all the other men go, each to his own place." 8 So Gideon sent the rest of the Israelites to their tents but kept the three hundred, who took over the provisions and trumpets of the others.


Lapping water (Christ) with our tongues like a dog (the dogs licked Lazarus' sores, also the Canaanite woman likened herself to a dog.)


WOW!! Very interesting. I'm not at all familiar with those particular verses, but that is certainly something to look at isn't it?  :wink:

I'm just heading out to the dentist so can't look at it now, but one of the first things that came to my mind was one of the things you mention about the 'dogs' and how the "Gentiles" were considered 'dogs'.

I also noticed that they were on 'all fours' and we to be "at His feet" and that they were not using 'their own hands'????

Now I'll have something to think about while I'm sitting in the dentist's chair!!  :lol:

Chrissie



It does sound like all the "fourfooted beasts" Peter saw in His vision which were "the gentiles".

They were not of those who used "their hands" to serve God

Makes sense after that reasoning, don't know really but I thought the connection was there to the picture alongside your thinking here. Partaking of something with "unwashed hands" ??

Never considered it really, I'm thinking, "does it work"? :lol:

I'm guessing here, I dont guess well

Daniel
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