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Finished or not finished?
love_magnified:
Hi Ray just finished reading praying by Gods rules and must say that it is one of the best papers on prayer I have read. I must admit to being a little confused Ray by the two statements below. I would appreciate it if you could throw some light on my question. if the sins of the whole world are already forgiven which I believe they are, why are we to ask for something God has already given us? or does this just mean that we are to forgive others as God has already forgiven us. If God has already forgiven us because of Jesus and the cross, how can we only be forgiven if we forgive others?
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our saviour, who will have all men to be saved. ( 1 Tim 2:3-4)
Your comment, was this, Jesus died for the sins of the world. That part of the commission is finished ("It is finished" Jn 19:30). The sins of the whole world are already forgiven. ( Taken from part 5 of the Lake of Fire series).
as opposed to..
"And forgive us our debts [sins] as we forgive our debtors…"
We will be forgiven our sins ONLY if we forgive those who sin against us. We really need to give this some thought. We cannot bless God while cursing our enemy or our fellow man, and expect God to bless us (James 3:9). ( Taken from Praying by Gods rules.)
Thanks Ray
Yours in Christ Ray (UK)
Dear Ray: Boy, I can't get away with anything--my readers are too sharp. Okay, let me see me get myself out of this one:
FIRST: It is the "SUM" of God's Word that is Truth: "The SUM of Your word is truth...." (Psalm 119:160).
SECOND: "Behold the Lamb of God, which TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD."
THIRD: "It is FINISHED" (John 19:30).
FOURTH: "...even God, Who quickens the dead and calls those things which BE NOT as though THEY WERE" (Rom. 4:17).
Likewise, Jesus knew that He HAD to die for the sins of the world, and yet, HE PRAYED FOR IT.
Understanding the Sovereignty of God under any, every, and all circumstances is one of the hardest things for the human mind to wrap around. God has a plan, a PURPOSE. He knows that plan and purpose from beginning to end, and nothing will change one iota of it. Yet, there are billions and billions of things that must take place in order for that plan to be accomplished. Everything in the universe that happens, is part of the fulfilling of that plan. Yes, if you do not forgive others of their sins, GOD WILL NOT FORGIVE YOUR SINS. But... BUT, God already has purposed that you (eventually) WILL FORGIVE OTHERS. You cannot under any circumstances escape the Sovereign Will of God.
Paul told those on his ship sailing to Rome, that if any remained not on the ship they could NOT be saved. Yet an angel already told Paul that everyone WOULD be saved. (Acts 27:31). Answer? God saw to it that everyone DID remain on the ship.
Remember that God has "ways and means" to accomplish all of His desires, and there is no way that His plan can be thwarted in any way. God only allows for it to "appear" as though it is being thwarted from time to time, which allows for men to then think that they have "free will," which of course, they do not.
God be with you,
-----------------
This is a very interesting topic and I think much of what we understand about the plan of God can be understood by a key revelation into how God speaks to man as Ray mentioned:
Romans 4:17
(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
It is finished. And it is also being worked out over the dispensation of the fullness of time. As the scripture says: Christ died for all, so all died. We are the firstfruits of that death as the likeness of the cross is within us (Romans 6). All things have been subdued to Christ and death has been defeated and destroyed, YET, the end will come when all things are subdued to Christ's kingdom and the last enemy destroyed will be death. What is your take?
lilitalienboi16:
This is like one of those mindboggling things, my weak spirit cannot grasp this right now..
Its mind baffling to me because we are so limited in our understanding by the physical and natural world around us we can't even begin to percieve paradise, heaven, the afterlife basicaly where we reign with HIm, i mean The end before the begining, its like a mind boggler.
How can you declare teh END before it BEGAN? Yet God can do all so this makes perfect sence, but ot my natural mind and my weak spirit i don't have the strenght to evne meditate on it, my head would explode.
This goes for this also, God forgiven the WORLD of there sins, yet we can only be forgiven if we forgive others. Again its like Declaring the END before the begining, infact i think thats exactly what it is..
My head hurts...... lol
love_magnified:
I don't consider it mindboggling. It's like this assuming God was like us: God will pick up that pencil in an hour. So what does he say? I have picked up that pencil. The reason he talks like that is to declare his supremacy. He talks as though it has already been done, for once his purpose is declared, who can stand against it?
Becky:
in a sense it already has been done because he knows what will happen... every knee shall bow ..... that hasn't happened yet but God has willed it to....
Craig:
I don't know if any of you here have ever been a chess player. I was pretty good in my younger days.
A good chess player can look ahead several moves. There were times when I played people and they would make a move and I could tell you the game was over at that point. We still maybe had to continue the game for 6 or 7 moves, and the other player may not have known that I had already won, but there was no doubt of the result, at that point the game was over.
This is how I see God. When Christ died it was finished, we may be continueing the game, but for all intent and purpose the game is already over.
Blessings!
Craig
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