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Author Topic: What does this mean?  (Read 2741 times)

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Robin

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What does this mean?
« on: November 13, 2008, 03:35:09 AM »

1 John 4
Test the Spirits
 1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God.

What does it mean to us to acknowledge that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh?
How is it different from what the church believes? If you ask them if Jesus has come in the flesh they would say yes.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2008, 03:38:44 AM by M.G. »
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Heidi

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Re: What does this mean?
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2008, 05:45:26 AM »

I don't have the answer for you as such, but the word of God tells us that the demons believe and they tremble.....Jesus said "will He find faith when He returns."  I suppose having a head knowledge of God, i.e. He came in the flesh is a carnal way of looking at it.  We here at BT know that the implication of Jesus having come in the flesh has a spiritual meaning.  So there are many professing Christians in the world that will tell you that they believe, but do they have eyes to see and ears to hear and understand, comparing spiritual with spiritual.
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kweli

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Re: What does this mean?
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2008, 06:46:00 AM »

Hello M.G. Haven't heard from you in a while now.

I havent put this together properly but there's something to chew on in John 8 and 17. There are some explanations of "2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God." Bear in mind what Heidi mentioned..."demons believe and they tremble".

Here is an excerpt from Ray's study on 'Worship in Spirit & Truth'. It may not give a definite answer to your question but it may open up another view to it.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5312.0.html

Now to really nail this thing, this statement of Christ, in Luke is one of the most profound scriptures in all the Bible.

Luke 6:46  And why call you Me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Why call Me 'LORD, LORD' - that is an acknowledgement of somebody far superior.  That is an act of worship, like when you say, your majesty - your highness, you bow, you curtsey, that's an act of worship. "Lord, Lord"  double Lord, that's an act of worship an acknowledges that this is your Master Master, your Teacher - your Master - your Lord.  Christ says, why do you worship Me by calling Me Lord Lord and do not the things which I say (paraphrased).  Lord Lord is worship.  But if you don't do what He says it's useless, it's worthless. 

So you only need to take one thing away with you here today. 
WORSHIP IS OBEDIENCE TO GOD'S WORD, which is Light and that Light is Christ.  If you don't live by it there is NO Light in you, there is NO Christ in you.  It all comes down to obedience.

Now think about this for a minute. I mean our judgment is now, we are before the judgment seat of Christ now, judgment is upon the House of God now (1Peter 4:17).

Let's look at this judgment the way the church does.  They say, 'you know it's coming a day when all, one by one, will go up and you will tell your life story.  Every idle word is brought into account and for 50 billion people.'  How many thousands of years would that take anyway?? 

But can you imagine God saying - 'you know (calling anybody by name) you really were obedient to Me, you always did what was right, no matter how hard it was, you did what you knew was right and that is commendable.  However you didn't wave your hands, you didn't fall over backwards and foam at the mouth, I'm so upset with you.' (chuckle) 
It's just nonsense, that He would say, 'yes you always obeyed Me, even in hard times, you did the right thing.  You did right by Me, you did right by other people, you were obedient, but you didn't wave your hands.' 

Can you see what is important in worship?  Forget about the waving hands.  If you got to do it, well then do it.  But you know the big thing is OBEDIENCE and that goes with family relations…..husband and wife, you've got to be obedient to those vows.  If those vows were good and Godly, you've got to be obedient.

But obedience, that is where it is at.  Sometimes we come short, I know.  But there is no doubt in my mind, that's what it's all about, and I know what it's all about.



Hope this is helpful.
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Robin

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Re: What does this mean?
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2008, 07:34:52 AM »

Thank you both. That was very helpful.

I found this translation in Jonathan Mitchell's New Testament Translation. It looks like [{the} Lord, having come in flesh] is only found in some manuscripts. It makes a lot more sense to me without that added. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be there though. I have no idea.

3. and every spirit (influence; breath) which is not habitually speaking in accord with (speaking like; avowing; confessing) the One, Jesus [some MSS +: {the} Lord, having come in flesh] is not out of (does not originate in) God. And this [spirit, expression, or speech which is not in accord with Jesus] is (continuously exists being) of the antichrist (pertains to the antichrist; of something in the place of Christ) ‑ which you folks have heard that it is constantly (repeatedly; habitually) coming, and now (at the present time) exist within (is in) the ordered system (world) already (before now).

and I understand this in verse 5

5. They themselves exist being from out of the ordered system [or they exist with the world as their source; they originate their being from the system]. On account of this they continually speak from out of the system (they habitually speak out of the world [as a source and origin]), and the ordered system (world) constantly hears them.

kweli what Ray said about Luke 6:46  And why call you Me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? fits well with Matthew 7: 22,23

Matthew 7
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


« Last Edit: November 13, 2008, 07:48:36 AM by M.G. »
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Kat

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Re: What does this mean?
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2008, 11:40:16 AM »


Hi M.G.,

1John 4:2  By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit which confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,

This Scripture seems to have the same meaning as 1 John 4.

1Co 12:3  Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking by the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus be cursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit.

I think this carries the meaning of what is actually in a person's heart, not just what one may say, as Christ said...

Mat 15:8  'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me;

Mat 7:23  And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.'

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Richard D

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Re: What does this mean?
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2008, 01:56:23 AM »

M.G.

This question you ask (Test the Spirits) I cannot help but to think the answer lies with brother Musicman, I was just reading in the off topic board about brother Musicman having a revelation while in the spirit.

 I hope I lead you in the right direction for the true answer to your question as brother Musicman knows all about testing the spirit.


                                         In God’s Love. Richard.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2008, 02:46:27 AM by Richard D »
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