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Evil.
Richard D:
Ray talks about our existence and our experiences in this life are for knowledge of Good and evil.
Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to vanity, not of its own will, but by reason of him who subjected it, in hope
Below is an excerpt from the writings of Ray.
Knowing "good and evil" is one of the most essential requisites in being formed in the image of God. To truly "know" both good and evil they HAD to partake of its source, which was the "TREE of the knowledge of good and evil," which then DEMANDED that they SIN in order to obtain this "knowledge." NO OTHER TREE IN THE GARDEN POSSESSED THIS NEEDED KNOWLEDGE!
My understanding is without this experience of evil we would not have any comparison of that which is good. I understand I cannot be happy unless I really know what it’s like to be sad or what good really is without experiencing what evil is.
To know what good and evil are is not going to make us into the image of God but it’s in the experiencing of good and evil that is making us into God’s image.
As I ponder these thoughts I’m wondering would one not need to experience every evil thing under heaven to have a full understanding?
For instance I know how devastating it is to discover something I owned was not where I put it when I went to get it, yes a human being somewhere in this world took something of mine that did not belong to him or her, and I forgive them for having done so also.
So God wants us to experience what its like, to feel the pain of it. But there are something’s I’m thinking of I can never or won’t ever experience in this life. So now my experiences would not be in the fullness of all evilness.
Ray has pointed out that Adam and Eve would have not been happy in the Garden of Eden because they had no comparison of the good things they had to any evil.
But this would have to include everything right? What I mean is Adam and Eve could be happy with their food supply if they knew what it was like to go hungry. But Adam and Eve could have not been happy with the beauty of the Garden of Eden if God had never sent them out of the Garden.
So my thoughts are as this, with out a full experience of evil I would not have a complete experience of evil meaning I would not be fully equipped to be made into the image of God. :-\
In God’s Love. Richard.
Amrhrasach:
Richard, a good topic. And, it was touched on briefly in my post of “whatever o man is”. (Or at least I was attempting to get there.)
Particularly, the following.
From “Repentance, 2005”.
“O man, that’s what we have to repent of.
Whatever O man is. That’s what we are, because O man is Adam. O man came out of Adam. Where did you come from, some place else? We’re all out of Adam. And what does Adam do? Being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters and on and on. Wow, this is O man out of Adam. This is what he does.
And only by the grace of God, some of us didn’t have to go that route.”
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8475.0.html
"by the grace of God"..
So, to your question: “As I ponder these thoughts I’m wondering would one not need to experience every evil thing under heaven to have a full understanding?”
Would it seem orderly that we DO in fact have that experience of “evil” in us already (in our heart), but, that God has “framed” us in such a way as to not actually need the "true" experience, the true *playing out* experience, and that only by his purpose and by his grace we are saved from such evil? Should we not be thankful of knowing but not having to experience the harm? All for his good, his plan and purpose? Such a good thing it is perhaps that while we ALL have it in us, God’s grace does indeed "frame" us from such sufferings to ourselves as well as at the expense of others?
Best.
A.
AK4:
Hi Richard
I have "experienced" some things in my dreams that i would, God willing, never do. I also can "feel" what may be going through others minds as i see what they are going through or experiencing. Or should i say if i was in their shoes i could relate how they reacted or not reacted. I get this all the time.
I dont think you have to personally experience something to know what is like. I will use one the worst examples--Hitler--- if you read up on his childhood experiences you can probably see why he turned out to be what he was.
I dont know maybe its just me. Hope this helps though
Anthony
Richard D:
Amrhrasach.
We already know that Eve while in the Garden before the fall if you would already had lust of the eye and the pride of life right?
So if Eve already had these sins in her heart why would God place them outside the Garden of Eden? It appears that just knowing about evil is not what God had intended for us. Or why not leave Adam and Eve in the Garden.
Let us reason it this way. God could have told Adam what it would be like to feel hunger pains and Adam would have only known it through intellectual knowledge and not through experiencing this pain first hand.
I can know about women having birth pains but I do not know through experience that pain she went through. It’s my belief God wants us to know about evil through experiencing evil and not just being told about it.
So now I’m back to my original question.
As I ponder these thoughts I’m wondering would one not need to experience every evil thing under heaven to have a full understanding.
In God’s Love. Richard.
Richard D:
Hi Anthony.
My reasoning is based on what God is putting us through in order of being made in His image, now having said that let me put this question to you. If I were with a women in a delivery room who is about to give birth and she said to me this hurts so much and I said to her I know the pain your feeling she would freak on me.
She would say no you don’t know the pain I’m going through even though I might have had a broken bone in my body at one time. You see what I mean.
The pain of a broken bone may be different than the pain of giving birth in a different degree of pain.
I believe if all human being could become the sons and daughters of God without the experience of evil, what would that say about God putting us through something unnecessary?
So now I ask again would I not have to experience every evil under heaven in order to be fully equipped to be made into the image of God.
In God’s Love. Richard.
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