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[Marlene]

One do you think there might be some in churches who do not believe all the false doctrines of the churches? Also, if they do obey God in obedience they would not be part of the Elect? I have seen many in these churches who have been delivered from drugs, drinking and all kinds of things. Some truely believe god has to do the work for them, I know some believe they are doing it. I know my husbands great grand mother lived to be 102. Over the years I have seen she had the character of christ in her. After, she got older and could not go to church she continued to read her Bible. The day she passed away they found her Bible open to Romans. What, happens with those saints that have the traits of God. If, they go to church they will not be in the Elect. She once told my Mother-in -loaw that if she had not been so old she would have left her church of 90 years. I mean we obviously do not know every ones heart in these churches. Maybe they are afraid to speak up I dont know but what about the ones who obey. I believe she really loved God.

I believe what Ray teaches not a doubt in my mind. I see the same beautiful traits of Gods Character in my husband. Always, have been there. Where, I saw myself without many that I have since believe like Ray that I have had victory over. I know for me I was at home when the lord drew me. It was in no church where anyone saw him draw me. Church came after sining and him showing me my  sin. But, the day he drew me I repented at home. It was no big scene it was me and God alone. It makes it hard to pass judgement on people who obey.

I want to obey him because he loved the whole world and saved it. Before, I tried doing it out of fear. Now, I have a song in my heart. I  am glad for my failures and for my victories. I guess what I am saying I feel sorry for the lost world who is blind. I know God does the drawing , but they do believe how can we judge there heart. We are not suppose to. I hope you all know what I am trying to say.

In His Love,
Marlene

[walt123]

here is a song
for us to keep us comforted, knowing all people will know God's love for us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnuosZ9BXnI

hope i did this right if not maybe next time.

walt.

[Craig]

If, they go to church they will not be in the Elect.

Who told you that?  I've never read where Ray has taught that.  We don't know who the members of the elect are, it may be a buddist or a muslim or a person who last night was on a drunken, sexual binge.  Some of the elect may be getting up to go to church this morning.  I don't know who they are and neither does anyone here, only God knows who they are.  Why spend so much of our time putting labels on ourselves and others?  If we worry about running our own race and replacing our own carnal beast with Him who lives in us, things will work out to His glory.

Craig

[Samson]

If, they go to church they will not be in the Elect.

Who told you that?  I've never read where Ray has taught that.  We don't know who the members of the elect are, it may be a buddist or a muslim or a person who last night was on a drunken, sexual binge.  Some of the elect may be getting up to go to church this morning.  I don't know who they are and neither does anyone here, only God knows who they are.  Why spend so much of our time putting labels on ourselves and others?  If we worry about running our own race and replacing our own carnal beast with Him who lives in us, things will work out to His glory.

Craig

Hey Marlene,

                  Craig made a good point in his statement above. His point brought to mind, the Apostle Paul.
                  He was the WORST of sinners prior to seeing and experiencing Christ on the road to Damascus.
                  The son of a Pharisee, from the tribe of Benjamin, having a zeal for God, not according to
                  accurate knowledge, due to his ignorance, was shown mercy.

                  Prior to the CAUSE(the risen Christ), none of the other Apostles would have thought he was
                  one of THE ELECT, and even for awhile afterwards they wondered about him seeing he was
                  formerly persecuting the followers of THE WAY and had murdered Stephen, dealing outrageously
                  with the Congregation, invading houses, dragging out men and women, turning them over to prison.

                  From all these Scriptures(Acts. 8:1-4; 9:1,2; 9:20-26; 1Timothy. 1:12-16) pertaining to the above,
                  dealing primarily with his course prior to his experience on the road to Damascus, no one would
                  conclude he was of THE ELECT. ONLY GOD KNEW. Paul had to finish the race, endure to the end
                  of his life to receive the prize of Eonian Life and eventual Immortality.

                                               Hope this Helps, Samson.
                 
                 

[Kat]

Hi Marlene,

I know my husbands great grand mother lived to be 102. Over the years I have seen she had the character of Christ in her.
What, happens with those saints that have the traits of God. If, they go to church they will not be in the Elect.

I think we all know people that we think of as saintly, I remember my grandmother as one of the sweetest persons I knew.  I think about John the Baptist and what Christ said about him.

Mat 11:11  "Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

So Christ said, "among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist," yet he is not of the Elect.  He will not be in the first resurrection, because it says "he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he."  

The way I see it is God is raising up a few to be the Elect, they will serve a special purpose with Christ in the first resurrection.  Not because they have been really good people in this life or have character traits that qualify them to make it.  It turns out to be quite the opposite.

1Co 1:28  and the base things of the world, and the things that are despised, did God choose, yea and the things that are not, that he might bring to nought the things that are:

It seems to me that God is choosing out the most unlikely bunch of characters, to prove what He can accomplish with any person (remember Saul converted to Paul).

1Co 1:29  that no flesh should glory before God.

So God is training these people, these "base things of the world" and will prepare them to be used in the first resurrection to help bring all the rest of humanity to salvation.

I do believe in the lake of fire God will show His harshness "many stripes," with those who deserve it.  Likewise He will show mercy "few stripes" to those that deserve it.

Luke 12:47  And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
v. 48  But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

I can't help but think for those that are not rebellious and do not resist God, that they will go through the lake of fire process with relatively little pain and suffering "few stripes."  
Do you think God is going to harshly purge and correct John the Baptist in the lake of fire to bring about his righteousness?  The purpose of the lake of fire is to teach righteousness.

Isa 26:9  With my soul I desired You in the night; yea, with my spirit within me I will seek You early; for when Your judgments are in the earth, the people of the world learn righteousness.

Now it is true that there will be those that will have to be purged of many false doctrines and a multitude of character flaws, before they can began to learn righteousness.  But do you see what I am trying to say?  Of course anybody would want to be in the first/better resurrection (Heb. 11:35).  But I do not see the lake of fire as being a horrible thing for everybody.  

Eze 7:27  "The king will mourn,
       The prince will be clothed with desolation,
       And the hands of the common people will tremble.
       I will do to them according to their way,
       And according to what they deserve I will judge them;
       Then they shall know that I am the LORD!"'

God only needs a few to serve with Christ in the first resurrection, of course anyone would be fortunate to be among those.  But they are not better than anybody that must go through the lake of fire, it is only by God's grace that those blessed few will make it.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Marlene]

Kat, Thank you so much. I agree with all of this.

Craig, Why does God call us to come out of Mystery Babylon, The Great The Mother Of Harlots and the abominations of the earth?I think there is some confusion . I did not say Ray or anone said that on here. I have been in chruches who think they are Gods chosen. I also, know they are blind. But, he does tell us to come out of her so we don't suffer her plaques. Yes, Paul ran the race and even died for it. Yes, many of us who believe like this now have our own sins to attest that we are nothing without him.  I would never say I am his chosen and someone is not. But, what I guess I am asking isn't the ones who run the race and have him live in him, by him only given comfort to know that they will have been given Christ. He will not hold there sins against them. I know, that no one can boast of themselves. So, if these people do not find the truth and never see they were blind they could still be in this. Well, that is fine with me, cause God makes that decision.

Sorry, if there was confusion Craig. I really did not say Ray or anyone here said that. Here I have found the most humble people I have ever met. Ray's teachings have set me free. I would never say such a thing or insinuate such a thing. I know God loves every creature he makes. But, I thought from the teachings of the seven churches he tells us to come out so we won't partake of her plaques.

I know, only God knows our hearts inside Babylons Church or no longer in her.

Kat sent things that really helped me. I know, that God  will not give us more then we have coming and he is fair and just.
Hope I have not caused any problems here. But, I know of Churches who think they are the chosen.

I know God chooses, I do not see me as chosen. My life is not ended yet. Even, if it was I would die not knowing. But, he had made me want to run the race and it is all his doing. But, I believe my God is able to finish me. He does say we are peculiar people.

In His Love,
Marlene

As, long as I have his truths I am not blind. Now, we are really held accountable.