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[Ninny]

I was just reading Fools, Hypocrites, Snakes I was just thinking how Jesus was so adamant about exposing the motives of the leaders. This isn't really a deep thought just an observation really. The church I belonged to for so many years was overseen by a large conference of leaders. It was like a government in itself. Really it was run like a government. I guess all large denominations are run like that. In the church I was in when we got the annual financial statement the local church in addition to all the money they sent to the "church government" they sent 10% of everything it took in in tithes and general offerings as a tithe!  I guess this was so the congregation would see the example and pay their tithes.

Then of course we had to have bake sales and what not to raise money for programs for the children! With all the money sent in to the "mother church" I never understood why they didn't have money for local church items even like Bible study materials.  I can understand why Jesus rebuked them in NOT a pleasant tone! This is just a waste and to me it is cheating little old ladies out of their social security!
They should have been saying "All little old ladies on social security are exempt from paying tithes." I wonder how many of the elderly folks may have gone without things they really needed to be "obedient" to God.
Strange!
My thoughts,
Kathy

[Beloved]

I am not sure what point you are trying to make

The church is basically collecting tithes as you point out for the accumulation of wealth, they do not take care of the needy as directed by Christ.

However the elderly who pay tithes are not exempt either....they give tithes in order to obtain righteousness through works OR perhaps they buy into the name it claim it doctrine ...where they are promised to get 100 fold return on their investment....they are not necessarily being obedient by paying tithes.

If you look in the Gospels at the difference that Jesus points out.   

(Mar 12:38)  And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,
(Mar 12:39)  And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts: 
(Mar 12:40)  Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.
(just like today living high on the hog doing just what you pointed out )but will be held accountable for their actions

(Mar 12:41)  And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
(Mar 12:42)  And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.

(Mar 12:43)  And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:

(Mar 12:44)  For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

She did not cast in  10% she threw it all in....declaring that she was totally dependent on God

Even if these people did think they were being obedient...they gave their money to the church and they got their carnal return. 

They do not need to buy any special BIBLE STUDY material....a bible and perhaps some paper would do. (Jesus and His disciples never said we needed any )  AS far as the Bible goes, it would help if when they opened it they were able to actually read it and understand it.

The church likes it hierarchy....it like all government..... is based on power....it is the power that leads to the wealth

Beloved

[Ninny]

You are correct again, Beloved! You are always right
Naw, I wasn't really making much of a point just an observation I guess. I never thought of the people paying their tithes to get their financial return! I used to pay tithes because I really thought I was being obedient to God. I just thought that's what you're supposed to do! I honestly don't remember ever thinking that if I paid my tithe God would give it back to me! If I thought that way I never saw the check in the mail! Ha!
It has only been in the last three years or so since I started coming to BT that I learned the tithe is unscriptural!

I have never liked "Bible study materials" anyway-BORING!!

Now I do believe in giving- like you mentioned the widow who gave all, yes she knew that God was taking care of her. Live or die it was God's anyway!  God is all and over all and it is He who takes care of us! I don't see anything wrong in setting aside a tithe of your income to have it available to help those in need. I know someone who does that ,but they don't tell what they do or when, they just do it. I know about it because it's a member of my family and when they wanted to do that they asked my advice about it. I said, "That's between you and God." I gave them Ray's paper on tithing and they agreed that's what they would do.
Thanks again for wisdom from scripture,
Kathy

[Beloved]

yes many will accept the No tithing paper that Ray presents, People like getting out of Hell and having more money in their pockets....

Do you see these two beliefs accepted on the surface...still can be idols of the heart .......because they can be self serving. They are only the entree of the meal....there is a lot to eat and chew on.

Ha ha...I am not always right...I was just coming from another perspective...we all contribute when we study the Word.

Php 3:15  Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

The problem is that we have to remember freedom from Tithes does not mean freedom from Giving to God....we are only lowly steward who have been given the job of taking care of "some of HIS possessions"  Are we being GOOD Stewards...really representing our Master....are we acting in accord to HIS Will.

We are fed by this site, but do we support it with funds or with words , we see people in need...but do we serve them in the Name of our Master.... Do we invoke His name in our prayers but fail to use the resources that he has provided that might help the person in need under certain occasions?

This is where "the tire hits the road" and the wolves in sheep clothing get squeamish....we do not want to be that widow with the two mites. I know that I am way too often the 

(Mar 12:41)  And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.

(Luk 21:4)  For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.

Remember the parable of the three  stewards,  each wer given ten talents....the most sucessful did not hold on to the ten but gave a little here and a little there ........and the fruit of giving.... returned to His Master...not to him.

Boy is this speaking to me today

Beloved

[aqrinc]

Hi Kathy, Beloved,

Here is a short testimony from my (purely carnal past). This is what most others still contend with.

The great deceiver has a few tricks up his sleeve too. I used to pay because i thought that was the way the
system worked from GOD. When i stopped paying several times it seemed that money stopped coming in and
my work would not prosper. Naturally i started paying again and things would seem to settle down and go well.
This was a cycle that had me really confused for years and believing the system was designed that way. The
reason i say Satan has his own tricks is that it really appears to be a reward system that is scriptural if one is
only able to understand carnal things. Eg: give - receive, sow - reap, seed - fruit and on and on. The cunningly
devised fables of man and Satan are indeed a powerful attraction for the carnal (physical) mind.

In That Day; when we see the breathless evil and cunning of the deception we call progress (while we were
still carnal) is when we cry out to GOD to rescue us from the body of this death.

Reading and listening to: how hard is getting saved smacks all that deception and cunning into the dust.

george.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3849.0.html

How Hard is Getting Saved?
by L. Ray Smith

Bible Truths Conference
Nashville TN 2005

Who gave me this newspaper…The Tennesian—the article is called “The Scripture has the Last Say on Who is and Who isn’t a Christian.” By Betty Joe King.

She says, “There’s an awful lot of talk around media, politicians, and anybody else who can draw a public audience, about what a Christian is, what a Christian believes, and what a Christian does.”

I’m just going to hit a couple of the high points. I’m not going to read the whole thing.

“A Christian is a person who believes and accepts the authority of the bible.” (King)

True or False. There are all kinds of “bibles”. Bible is a translation of scriptures that could be a fairly good translation or a very bad one.

“God wrote the Bible…” (King)

See, these are misconceptions…God didn’t “write” the bible. God INSPIRED the writing of the Holy Scriptures. (which were not written in archaic English, Japanese, Chinese, or Mongolian) Any foreign language that the Scriptures are translated in are BIBLES: God did not write the Bible….this is total heresy.

“Just for the record, let me lay out for you just what a true Christian is or believes: 1)Man was created in the image of God” (King)

If you believe how it’s worded in the King James, that God created man (past tense), in the image of God, you will NEVER EVER understand the scriptures. If you don’t understand Genesis 1:26, you will never understand the scriptures because that verse tells us why God made humanity; and if you don’t know why He created humanity, how will you ever know what this is all about? And here’s a typical Christian. Now, you know we’re not talking just disparagingly about Christians who believe these things, I believed them! We’ve all been deceived. And we know they are deceived. We love them. But this is heresy. I’ll talk a little bit about that.

“If Adam and Eve had not sinned, there would be no such thing as death.” (King)

See, what they think is, God created first of all a great Archangel, one of his most spectacular creatures of all. Right? And the whole thing went belly-up! Bad idea…He gave it His best shot, but it didn’t work. Well, He was a novice. This was His first attempt at something really big like this. And it just didn’t turn out. His own creation turned against Him. He says then, “well, let me try something different. We tried the spirit beings, let’s try the physical beings.” So He made Adam and Eve. Made them perfect.

I just flipped on (the tv) for a couple of minutes, while I was having my coffee two days ago and Creflo Dollar and Kenneth Copeland were together. And Kenneth was saying how when God made Adam, you couldn’t even see him; he was so radiant and beautiful, so absolutely glorified, you couldn’t even see he had a body. He was so glorious.

But God screwed up again, see, He gave him this thing called “free will” and boy, that went bunkers. Now God is trying for six thousand years to get us back as good as we were when the whole thing failed!! Is that not basic teaching? We want to get back to as good as it was?? When it FAILED? If we truly have free will, at what point in eternity do we lose it that we don’t do the same thing all over again: turn against God. Do people think about this stuff in Christianity? NEVER, never ever do they think about this.

It doesn’t say, “so God CREATED man”. The word is CREATING. And the words are, “Creating is God humanity.” That’s a difference “He created man,” than “Creating is God humanity.”  It’s a process, it’s still going on. If Adam was the best God could offer, it wasn’t very good because it failed.

[Ninny]

Amen to you Beloved and to you, George!  Wow! We have SO much to learn about God! I think learning some things about ourselves helps us in our understanding of how God operates. When we see our motives for what we do and can painfully look at ourselves then looking at God's mercy, whew! We see our most noble deeds are mostly not so noble at all!
I read and listened to 'how hard is getting saved' and you know, Ray just doesn't pull any punches does he?!
A person can give all the reasons they want to thinking they can interpret God's word any way they want to to make people think the way they do! it is amazing how when you look at all the words like Ray says you see a different picture of God altogether!

I am in agreement with you Beloved, giving is important to God not because HE needs anything we have with the exception of obedience, but because the condition of our heart tells our relationship with Him. And like I said before everything is God's to begin with! He just wants to see how we take care of what is His!
Thanks
Love you guys,
Kathy

[Marlene]

Hello, It is sad that many are deceived. But, while I was in church I gave with my heart. My husband and I have never had alot of money. I never gave to get money back.  I believe we should never think all are doing that. That would pass judgement and make us no better then the false teachers. But, we found out when the Pastor had ran off a young couple for only giving $5.00 dollars a week , and he preached he did not know what anyone gave. Then, after two weeks back after a long illness that I had. He preached a sermon that he did not know what anyone gave. He preached the sermon about the couple who lied to the Holy Spirit. He took the exact amount my husband and I gave. Then he said, "Am I Saying He Might Let You Die" Well! Last, time my Husband and My Mother and I ever went back. We have never been rich use to living with a very small savings and living from check to check. My health has caused many debts in our life. But, God has always taken care of our needs.

But, to say that all in churches give with the heart of only receiving is judgemental and I will never judge them I gave with my heart. Also, now that I know there is no Hell, I am able to obey cause he does it in me. I didn't want to disobey all the time . I had sin in me. I tried to take care of it myself. Now, I know only he can. I Love him now and not just fear him. I Love him in Truth and don't want to hurt him. That is what Love is about we don't like to hurt others. Love is the answer to all problems in the world. I know Babylon Churches have its problems, but not all have been led to the truth yet. I was in Babylon churches and gave with my heart. How can we judge there hearts? I thought god was there judge? There are old people like my mother who gave with her heart. She did not expect to get money back. Babylon's churches have many deceived with good hearts and who obey god. I mean did't we all come out. Its not there faults there deceived is it?

In His Love,
Marlene

[Beloved]

Marlene I do not think that was  judging anyone with my statement, I just gave two reasons (out of many as to why)

However the elderly who pay tithes are not exempt either....they give tithes in order to obtain righteousness through works OR perhaps they buy into the name it claim it doctrine ...where they are promised to get 100 fold return on their investment....they are not necessarily being obedient by paying tithes
We were all in Babylon and gave money...but the last part of my statement holds ....They are not necessarily being obedient by paying tithes.

I do not care how anyone rationalizes 'what' they did...they were not following Christ they were following a blind guide...who who handed over their authority to interpret scriptures for them. The fact that they were blind does not mean they were innocent..

This is a time for repentance for All that we do, we need to study to show ourselves approved and grow up spiritually. Too many here even on this board are still stuck in the carnal. We need to carefully examine EVERY THING we did and now do. We need to look critically at ourselves... (I am included in this we group too)

We are not here for Babylon bashing...we were all there...I do not care who you are.......Ask yourself.....If you give with a heart that was not pure....then what have you given?

There is only one WAY, and Babylon false doctrines wasn't even close to the narrow path that God set forth.

Mar 10:18  And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. .

It is about "fault"...just being a nice person has nothing to do with it. You can act nice and still resent a lot of things that God does and who knows what else is going on inside a person..., we cannot judge the heart by outward appearances...but God knows His Sheep.

This is not criticism of any person,  it is simply facing the truth about the behavior of mankind and not making excuses or defending it..

beloved

[mharrell08]

Babylon's churches have many deceived with good hearts and who obey god.

Matters of the heart:

Deut 5:29  O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Jer 17:9  The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Heb 3:12  Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.



Having a 'good heart' is a Babylonian myth...may seem harsh but true.



Marques

[Marlene]

Beloved, All, I am saying is while there I gave money to people who did not have anything. For, a long time I handled a program for the needy. I saw they got baskets of food if they were poor or in need. But, when I gave I gave with my heart. Now, is it that God could not see inside my heart. Because, I belonged to a church I did nothing right in his eyes. I mean we are all sinners and I could not have done even this right, if not for him.

I don't have a longing to go back. I know they don't teach right. I know they are deceived. But, God judges them for what they know. He shows them what they did not know.

But, now I know truth I believe I will be held more accountable because I do know truth. But, I was merely stating that while in Babylon I began to question things for a long time before finding truth. I never expressed them things, because I was sure the Pastor where I was going would eat me alive.

Well, I was reading some things and he told me not to delve into them. But, I did Praise God I listened to God and not him.

I am just saying we are held more accountable because we know. I even say some ministers have been led by other ministers. The all follow each other and lead otheres and all wind up in the ditch.  I was merely trying to say that God could still lead people out like us. I believe God was changing my heart and others like us while in there. But, we know not all will leave. He chooses a few. Even, called out one could go back in, if not for God. I hate the tithe and I hate Hell teachings.  We know what they teach, but Father Forgive Them They Know Not What They Do...But, we the called out know the truth and we are called to a high calling. Without, God showing us and teaching us truth we might well be them. I don't say not to expose them. But, even God will
be showing them mercy and he judges and correct by what truth they have. As, a whole it doesnt look good, but we never know out of the whole he is calling out. I don't say quit showing it for what it is, but there are many people doing with there heart. I am like David I prefer gods judgement over man. Yes, they do teach Hell and they don't make God out to be a fair judge. But, I also, know God is using Babylon for his purposes..
I am sorry if it seemed I singled you out. I just feel like we should have compassion for the ones who mean well in there heart and our blind just as Christ does. I do not mean we have to associate with them.

In His Love,
Marlene
 

[Marlene]

Marques, You and I know that they are lost. Some of them don't know. We were once them. Unless, God calls them out they will not learn truth. Do you feel that while in Babylon you never saw him do a good think in your heart. I know, that since I have been a child I have wanted to please him, but have I always no. I am a sinner and he is still killing that beast in me. Even, he is going to have compassion on them who are blind. Now, us called out ones are held more accountable. That, for me is a fearful thought, this is why Paul was working out his salvation in fear and trembling. Cause, it does depend on God.He chooses. If, not we all would be blind. Now, I fear and tremble not about Hell, but because he has showed me truth and I fear because I love in spirit and truth and I would only be able to do this because he enables me. Those scriptures don't mean anything to the loss they are blind. But, he has compassion. All, I can say if before I came out I gave money if I saw someone in need. I also, never had money to give 10 percent nor did I think that NT scriptures taught that. But, this was my thinking before I found Rays website. Who, gave me this truth. I know God did. He has taught me many things over my 54 years of life. I am just saying we all came from there. They are blind. I do not say go back. That would be crazy. But, I do say if not for God we might go back. We are in a race. I just pray like crazy to god to let me finish. Sorry, if I sounded like I condone sin. But, if you don't know truth how can you know you are doing sin.

In His Love
Marlene

[mharrell08]

Marques, You and I know that they are lost. Some of them don't know. We were once them. Unless, God calls them out they will not learn truth. Do you feel that while in Babylon you never saw him do a good think in your heart. I know, that since I have been a child I have wanted to please him, but have I always no. I am a sinner and he is still killing that beast in me. Even, he is going to have compassion on them who are blind. Now, us called out ones are held more accountable. That, for me is a fearful thought, this is why Paul was working out his salvation in fear and trembling. Cause, it does depend on God.He chooses. If, not we all would be blind. Now, I fear and tremble not about Hell, but because he has showed me truth and I fear because I love in spirit and truth and I would only be able to do this because he enables me. Those scriptures don't mean anything to the loss they are blind. But, he has compassion. All, I can say if before I came out I gave money if I saw someone in need. I also, never had money to give 10 percent nor did I think that NT scriptures taught that. But, this was my thinking before I found Rays website. Who, gave me this truth. I know God did. He has taught me many things over my 54 years of life. I am just saying we all came from there. They are blind. I do not say go back. That would be crazy. But, I do say if not for God we might go back. We are in a race. I just pray like crazy to god to let me finish. Sorry, if I sounded like I condone sin. But, if you don't know truth how can you know you are doing sin.

In His Love
Marlene

Hello Marlene,

Those who are blinded still have a wicked heart as the Lord created them as such.

Rom 8:20  For the creature [all of humanity] was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

You kinda went off subject with the rest of your comments. The only thing I was commenting on was the phrase 'good heart'.


Thanks,

Marques

[aqrinc]

As my earlier post was saying, i am one that was lost and thought i was learning righteousness
by giving even though i expected to recieve back. (AKA sow and reap physically) All start out
lost, some have been caught and dragged back, is that any praise or glory to us  . I do now
understand that judging another harshly because they have not yet been convicted is the wrong
thing to do.

george.

[Ninny]

You know one thing I've learned in my life is that love covers a multitude of sins and there is not enough love to be found anywhere around! I pray that God will give me a pure heart. I know that none of us is good and none of our hearts are "good" but I really want God to take out my evil heart of unbelief and replace it with a heart that yearns for Him and yearns to be pure.

God knows all the motives of our heart and from what heart we give or withhold.  We make mistakes and do terrible things, but if we repent of the evil, God forgives.  I pray for anyone still in churches out there that are "teaching for doctrines the commandments  of men"(Matt. 15:9) that God would drag all his people out of there, kicking and screaming if need be, but get them out! And the ones that refuse to go? God will be the Judge.
Kathy

[Richard D]

Kathy.

I can hardly wait for the resurrection to happen and believe me I won’t be screaming or kicking when my turn comes, I’ll go there with pleasure even if it’s into the lake of fire. 

I think we should have an in depth discussion on the lake of fire because most of humanity is going that way anyways, It appears to be the way God wants it to be.

I wonder if Kentucky fried chicken will be available for those in the lake of fire? I guess one needs to have some humor along the way. 

I think you should have named your thread Church Deceivers rather than Church Leaders. 


                                 Your friend and brother in the Lord. Richard.

[Marlene]

So, since I was a church member and I was feeling tithe was wrong and I prayed to God in my closet and wanted to obey him , that makes me wicked to the core. Just pray tell me what do I have to do to become good. I thought Jesus said, no man is good, Only his Father is good. Also, I thought we were all subject with vanity.  The way I see it no one should boast. I for one won't  judge any of there hearts. I think just because I found truth does not make me any better.

I do believe when you have truth you will be held more acountable. Now, God is a fair judge will he hold the blind more accountable, if he chooses who knows truth and who doesn't. Obviously maybe we should talk more about the Second, Lake of Fire.  I know Ray does not even think he is chosen. Its all up to God so who knows who it will be.

In His Love,
Marlene

[mharrell08]

So, since I was a church member and I was feeling tithe was wrong and I prayed to God in my closet and wanted to obey him , that makes me wicked to the core. Just pray tell me what do I have to do to become good. I thought Jesus said, no man is good, Only his Father is good. Also, I thought we were all subject with vanity.  The way I see it no one should boast. I for one won't  judge any of there hearts. I think just because I found truth does not make me any better.

I do believe when you have truth you will be held more acountable. Now, God is a fair judge will he hold the blind more accountable, if he chooses who knows truth and who doesn't. Obviously maybe we should talk more about the Second, Lake of Fire.  I know Ray does not even think he is chosen. Its all up to God so who knows who it will be.

In His Love,
Marlene

Who are you responding to? I didn't read any comments from anyone that would prompt this response...or are you just speaking your mind to no one in particular? No offense just trying to keep up with this thread.


Marques

[Marlene]

Marques, You told me those who are blind have a wicked heart. So, this means until he unblinds them they will have wicked hearts? Well, what I am asking you is do you mean while I was in Babylon  I had a wicked heart. I did not belive in tithe. I thought we were to give as God dealt with our heart. I was still in Babylon but did not believe I had to give a tithe. Also, I did not believe in trinity. But, I did belive in hell at the time. I hated hell and thats what drove me out of there. When, I saw there was no Hell I did not want to go back. But, I know while in Babylon god did some things for me. He answered somprayers that had to be all from God. My husband and I tried to get a house a couple of times. We could not afford the  payments for some of the houses and then we applied for a farmers home and we made $500 doallars too much. He was working himself over trying to figure out how we could make $500 dollars less. I said, honey you have yourself so worked up. My husband never gets worked up over things. So, I said, why dont we pray for what we need. I said , Like a house with one more bedroom and a garage. Well, we gave up on the hunt. A few years latter his Great-Grandmother passed away and his Grandmother bought us her house. Guess, what it had. One bedroom and  a garage. What, I am saying you think it is impossible to be anything but wicked while in Babylon's churches. Now, I have become disabled and if we had bought one of those homes we would have been in a mess.

What, I am trying to say is it possible not to be wicked to the core and be in Babylon? So, are all there prayers in vain? He has answered many prayers in my life time, while blind to all his truths. What, is your opinion on this. I have not seen just wicked people in those chruches. I mean they are blind, so that makes them wicked. God says none are good. So, is it my imagination God answered prayers while I was in Babylon.

In His Love,
Marlene

[Marlene]

Marques, You said, "That those blinded still have a wicked heart". Now, are you telling me all in Babylon churches are not able to have the Holy Spirit live in them and guide them. If, they pray to him and believe, how can we know. Obviously, the Holy Spirit brings them out of church. But, I know some people in churches that really show love. I have had Love given to me by some in those churches. So, you are telling me all there time in those churches were in vain. Do you think any of them could while in there are being guided by the Holy Spirit. While, in those churches I have been showed things that without God in my life I could not have known. Also, he has answered many prayers in my life. I was not ever asking for my wants. I asked for needs. I knew even in those churches it was not about giving to get back. So, does that mean I was lucky and never felt that way or was the Holy Spirit Guiding me. Also, can we really judge all there hearts. I mean, if not for him I would not be here. More could come out. I mean he loves the sinner there is no Hell. They are blind and he choose that. We were all made in vanity, not just the ones in Babylon Churches. I just feel that is Gods judgement not ours. I will not post anymore. Obviously, I don't want to cause trouble. But, I think Love means more then anything. I just think we should be nicer. God has been to us.

In His Love,
Marlene

[Ninny]

Marlene,
Like I said before God will be the Judge. Right now on this earth God has to be the Judge of who is and who isn't His. I don't see that we can do anything beyond discerning for our own life what is right and what is not. We all came out of something and we all were led of God. I have always believed that God put me where He wanted me at any given time. Even when I was in that church I talked about in the beginning of this thread I was led there by God He taught me so many things there and when He was ready for me to move on He took me out.

One of the ways God moved me out was by letting me see the pettiness of all the money collecting, there were other things too, and each time I learned something about it what was wrong I realized God was leading me to the door! I have no desire to go back to any of that ever again.

We have all sinned and come short of the glory of God, and the heart is exceedingly wicked. Jer. 17:9 again.
But we can't say because we were ignorant of the truth even when we were faithfully following after God we were far from God! Oh, no! believe me I believed in the power of prayer back then as much as I do now and it's like Ray has said, if you are praying for God's will to be done, it will! If you are seeking God's will you are doing what He wants you to do! You may make mistakes along the way, but God is in control. You never pray in vain unless you are praying outside of God's will.

The ones who are leaders of these churches who are leading people in a direction opposite of God's will are the ones Jesus was directing his scathing remarks to. AND in His doing that it opens our eyes to see what their sin was so that we would be able to recognize these deceptions when God opens our eyes and our minds to these things now. I'm not sure I am eloquent enough to really get this idea across.
In Love,
Kathy