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Author Topic: Christians with an unchrist like approach in dealing with ho  (Read 25754 times)

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roperfam

  • Guest
Re: homosexuality
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2006, 09:41:48 PM »

Quote from: Satch
I haven't been in the position of the parents in this discussion so all I can do is try to imagine what I would do. I don't think the young person should disrespect his parents' home by doing things he knows they disapprove of under their roof. Just as any child living under a parents' roof should be respectful of their house rules. I like to think that my love for my child would be unconditional, that is all I can imagine. I must say that the verse comes to mind regarding the beam in my eye versus the speck of dust in the eye of my fellow man. My grandparents taught me the right things but I must confess I did go and do things they would not approve of. They knew about some of the things and even though they were saddened by my choices they kept loving me. I think that is what helped me understand the unconditional love of God. And their teaching held steady because even though I strayed, I never forgot their teachings to me and I returned to that.


I believe parents/grand parents ways of disciplining and dealing with their kids definitely influence a persons understanding of God initially.  I grew up in a legalistic home, and felt approved of by my parents when I did good, and felt fearful of my parents when I did something bad.  This was my initial belief in how God looked at me.  I was constantly on the performance treadmill trying to please God my my actions.  It took a long time and some real big mess ups to bring me to a very low place, and only then did God start to reveal his true self to me, LOVE.
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sparkyman481

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Christians with an unchrist like approach in dealing with ho
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2006, 12:57:56 AM »

Hello all,

Do these verses show us what to do in these situations.

1Co 5:1  It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
1Co 5:2  And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
1Co 5:3  For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed.
1Co 5:4  In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Co 5:5  To deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1Co 5:6  Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
1Co 5:7  Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
1Co 5:8  Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
1Co 5:9  I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Co 5:10  Yet not altogether the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
1Co 5:11  But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no not to eat.
1Co 5:12  For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Co 5:13  But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
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roperfam

  • Guest
Christians with an unchrist like approach in dealing with ho
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2006, 01:19:31 AM »

Quote from: sparkyman481
Hello all,

Do these verses show us what to do in these situations.

1Co 5:1  It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
1Co 5:2  And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
1Co 5:3  For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed.
1Co 5:4  In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Co 5:5  To deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1Co 5:6  Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
1Co 5:7  Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
1Co 5:8  Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
1Co 5:9  I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Co 5:10  Yet not altogether the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
1Co 5:11  But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no not to eat.
1Co 5:12  For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Co 5:13  But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.




The instruction continues in 2 Corinth.

2Co 2:6  In the case of such a person the punishment which was inflicted by the majority of you is enough.

2Co 2:7  So that you may now take the opposite course, and forgive him rather and comfort him, for fear he should perhaps be driven to despair by his excess of grief.

2Co 2:8  I beg you therefore fully to reinstate him in your love.

2Co 2:10  When you forgive a man an offence I also forgive it; for in fact what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has always been for your sakes in the presence of Christ,

2Co 2:11  for fear Satan should gain an advantage over us. For we are not ignorant of his devices.

2Co 2:15  For we are a fragrance of Christ grateful to God in those whom He is saving and in those who are perishing;

2Co 2:16  to the last-named an odor of death predictive of death, and to the others an odor of life predictive of life. And for such service as this who is competent?

2Co 7:10  For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, a repentance not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world finally produces death.

2Co 7:12  Therefore, though I wrote to you, it was not to punish the offender, nor to secure justice for him who had suffered the wrong, but it was chiefly in order that your earnest feeling on our behalf might become manifest to yourselves in the sight of God.


Seems to me, we are to not associate with a person who continues in these sins.  If the one has been given faith in Christt, and shows no sign of repentance, then release them, turn them over to satan for the destruction of their flesh.  

But if God is working in this person, Godly sorrow will eventually produce repentance.  At this time, reinstate this person into love.  


But what about the homosexual who isn't, a carnal Christian.  For me, we are to not associate with them, but we can love them by praying for them, caring for them, demonstrating God's love.  If they are one that God has called and chosen, we will be a fragrance of Christ to them.  


Any thots?
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hillsbororiver

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Christians with an unchrist like approach in dealing with ho
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2006, 08:33:17 AM »

Laren, the verses you quoted nailed it. I only want to add that when administering "tough love" it can be more painful for the giver than the recipient. No one feels like a winner at the time.

Joe
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roperfam

  • Guest
Christians with an unchrist like approach in dealing with ho
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2006, 10:21:06 AM »

Quote from: hillsbororiver
Laren, the verses you quoted nailed it. I only want to add that when administering "tough love" it can be more painful for the giver than the recipient. No one feels like a winner at the time.

Joe


Man that is for sure, can vouch for that right now with a situation I am in.
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zander

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Christians with an unchrist like approach in dealing with ho
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2006, 12:18:08 PM »

Like i said before on this forum, gay people have it pretty bad with the church (the firm), as if being gay is the ONLY sin in the world.

With due respect Sorin, child molesters and animal shaggers are not in the same league of 2 men consenting.  Animals and children do not consent.


Let him without sin cast the first stone.  I am certainly not without it, so i wont be casting anything today

regardless.  This topic pains me.  Love is the key.
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eutychus

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Christians with an unchrist like approach in dealing with ho
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2006, 12:29:15 PM »

"""But what about the homosexual who isn't, a carnal Christian. For me, we are to not associate with them, but we can love them by praying for them, caring for them, demonstrating God's love. If they are one that God has called and chosen, we will be a fragrance of Christ to them. """"


I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.


For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within


But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person
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zander

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Christians with an unchrist like approach in dealing with ho
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2006, 12:38:24 PM »

In which case my parents should have thrown me out a long time ago, as im guilty of past fornication.
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eutychus

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Christians with an unchrist like approach in dealing with ho
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2006, 12:49:03 PM »

Quote from: zander
In which case my parents should have thrown me out a long time ago, as im guilty of past fornication.



who isnt?
what is worse, physical forny or spiritual forny?????


((((from among yourselves that wicked person))))

the wicked is the one that claims Christ but dosent acknowlage his sin.
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roperfam

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Christians with an unchrist like approach in dealing with ho
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2006, 04:12:43 PM »

Who would Christ rather have associated with, fornicators, prostititutes, the spiritually sick, or those who see themselves as self righteous, and not in need of a doctor?
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roperfam

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Christians with an unchrist like approach in dealing with ho
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2006, 04:16:43 PM »

Quote from: eutychus
the wicked is the one that claims Christ but dosent acknowlage his sin.


Amen, those who don't see their sickness, and the need for a doctor.
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Sorin

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Christians with an unchrist like approach in dealing with ho
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2006, 04:21:39 PM »

Fine, then I'm the wicked one. but I do acknowledge my sins.
just because I'm a sinner, doesn't mean I have to be in accord with rapists, murderers, child molesters, animal shaggers, or homosexuals.
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eutychus

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Christians with an unchrist like approach in dealing with ho
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2006, 04:35:49 PM »

Quote from: Sorin
Fine, then I'm the wicked one. but I do acknowledge my sins.
just because I'm a sinner, doesn't mean I have to be in accord with rapists, murderers, child molesters, animal shaggers, or homosexuals.



Sorin,
i was in know way refering to you, hope you understand that!!!!!

the point i am making is those are in need most of the healing of Christ!!

you do not have to be in accord with them.

peace and love
eutychus
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roperfam

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Christians with an unchrist like approach in dealing with ho
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2006, 04:46:42 PM »

Quote from: Sorin
Fine, then I'm the wicked one. but I do acknowledge my sins.
just because I'm a sinner, doesn't mean I have to be in accord with rapists, murderers, child molesters, animal shaggers, or homosexuals.


I agree we don't have to be in one accord with these people.  

However, if God is revealing to them their sin, and the wages of their sin (death) is working in them a desire for change, and they are seeking repentance, I think then we are to restore them to love, with open arms.  Realizing change is a process, and not instantaneous.  

I'll bet there are many homosexuals etc. who are at a place of brokeness, and desire someone to talk to, someone who will share the love of Christ to them, but are afraid to talk to a Christian, because of fear of being judged.
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shibboleth

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Christians with an unchrist like approach in dealing with ho
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2006, 05:03:41 PM »

Let's get back to what this topic was about in the first place. The parents threw their gay son out of the house, and that is about all we really know.
I can speculate and try to think of all kinds of reasons why he was thrown out, but I don't really know.
It isn't the gay people who live quiet lives I object to, but the ones who are intolerant of anyone disagreeing with their lifestyle. If I say being gay is sinful, I am considered homophobic and unloving. These people should be treated respectfully, but I do not approve of what they do. It isn't any different than disapproving of a rapist, murderer, adultress, thief or any other sin. If you can show me in scripture my sin, I will look at the Bible and say I never knew that was sin. I can be ignorant of sin, and there are passages that talk about these type of sins.
If people want to be homosexual, that is their business. But the in your face, accept my lifestyle or you're a bigot thinking is not right.
Homosexuals have a high rate of alcohol addiction and drug addiction. This lifestyle certainly isn't gay.
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YellowStone

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Christians with an unchrist like approach in dealing with ho
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2006, 06:49:04 PM »

Well stated Shibboleth, I can only wonder how I sadden God everytime I use his name in vain and though I am not gay or have sex with animals nor go to a drunken parties, I still fill very low in the site of our Father. We must never forget that we were all born sinners and I never did see a list of sins in there ranked order.

A sin, is a sin is a sin.   :oops:

Darren
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hillsbororiver

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Christians with an unchrist like approach in dealing with ho
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2006, 07:51:25 PM »

Quote from: zander
In which case my parents should have thrown me out a long time ago, as im guilty of past fornication.


Like Shibboleth stated, let's get back to the original topic.

Zander, were you committing these acts under your parents roof? After they asked you to cease? Were you an adult or a child? Were you flaunting this activity blatently?
These are things we do not know about this situation.

This displacement may or may not have been justified, there are too many unanswered questions.

Joe
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zander

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Christians with an unchrist like approach in dealing with ho
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2006, 08:17:32 AM »

Like i said (3 times now), i dont know the situ either.  if he was disobeying certain rules then sure i can understand he'd be difficult to live with.

But not JUST for being gay.  Its more of a general point i am making rather than saying they threw him out JUST because he is gay.

If my son was gay and i knew he was having consensual sex OUT of my house, then that is forgiveable.  Im not going to cast any stones.

If he has sex, orgies and gang bangs all over the shop in my house, then thats a different matter, so i agree with you in that sense
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hillsbororiver

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Christians with an unchrist like approach in dealing with ho
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2006, 12:02:21 PM »

Quote from: zander
Like i said (3 times now), i dont know the situ either.  if he was disobeying certain rules then sure i can understand he'd be difficult to live with.

But not JUST for being gay.  Its more of a general point i am making rather than saying they threw him out JUST because he is gay.

If my son was gay and i knew he was having consensual sex OUT of my house, then that is forgiveable.  Im not going to cast any stones.

If he has sex, orgies and gang bangs all over the shop in my house, then thats a different matter, so i agree with you in that sense


Hi Zander, Then we are in total agreement then because I have no desire to throw stones and castigate gays for the condition they are in, it is not something that most folks would wish on themselves or anyone else. I have lived in fairly large cities and worked for companies with thousands of employees and I have been in contact with all kinds of people, gays included, I would never condone treating a gay person any differently than I would anyone else. It is only if their actions harmed others who had not given consent to their provlications or they did not respect the wishes of parents, employers, etc. by overtly "acting out" just as I would not accept overt sexuality by a straight person.

I think we are on the same page.

Joe
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rvhill

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Christians with an unchrist like approach in dealing with ho
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2006, 05:38:15 PM »

Matthew 12:31And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.


Mark 3:28I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. 29But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."


There is only one sin worse then any other sin. I also find it interesting it is not defined.
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