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Hebrews 9
bobf:
Hi Eileen,
"Many" just means a great multitude and does not mean fewer than all. Compare the "all" and the "many" in these passages. They both refer to all mankind.
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.
Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous
God bless,
Bob
Kat:
Hi Eileen,
--- Quote ---But many? All are sinners. Not one is righteous, correct? I am bewildered and frustrated.
--- End quote ---
'Many' does not mean 'all' is the same argument that Christiandom uses in saying all will not be saved. Ray had a Bible study on this false teaching 'Does All mean All,' here is the link.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5605.0.html
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Deborah-Leigh:
Hi Eileen
There is an order in salvation. First the few or the remnant are saved, then the many will be saved and then, God will be all in all.
There is a first and a second resurrection to judgment. Remember judgement is not always a sentence to punishment and correction but it can also be a verdict to reward. There are trials and tribulation and there is wrath. Wrath and tribulation are not the same.
Heb 9 : 28 is about those who are aching for the return of Christ who are not reserved for the wrath He brings to those who do not have their eyes, hearts and minds strained to see, feel and hear Him but who are busy in self indulgence and making merchandise of His Words. Wrath is for the disobedient rebellious workers in a field describing the labourers who killed the heir and busied themselves dividing up His property. The Church is divided into over 3000 denominations and are very busy.
The first judgement that BEGINS now on the House of God is on those who are persecuted for throwing off the traditions of the Church that is making void the Words of Christ. This first judgment that began over two thousand years ago, will be finalised as the second resurrection to judgment that begins with the return of Christ. We all go through the second death and the purging of our fleshy carnal natures whether now or later.
There is judgment on the House of God NOW and there will judgment on the world LATER. Not ALL are in the House of God now but everyone will be later.
ref to http://bible-truths.com/lake3.html and http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D5.htm
Arc
EKnight:
--- Quote from: bobf on December 12, 2008, 12:56:49 AM ---Hi Eileen,
"Many" just means a great multitude and does not mean fewer than all. Compare the "all" and the "many" in these passages. They both refer to all mankind.
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.
Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous
God bless,
Bob
--- End quote ---
I am reading "Does All mean All" and I believe WHEN it says ALL it means ALL, but many does not mean all. I know that scriptures don't contradict otherwise the bible is useless, so I guess Bob's quote above is the best definition I will get. "For as by one man's (Adam) disobedience many [I know that all were made sinners] were made sinners, so by the obedience of one (Christ) many [so this many must also mean the same many that were made sinners which is all of mankind] be made righteous.
However, the use of the word many instead of all just seems to complicate things for no reason except what Ray says "so that Satan could deceive..."
I understand all the scriptures that clearly state that all, the whole world, every one etc, will be saved. I guess I know in my heart that these other somewhat ambiguous scriptures just complicate a solid understanding whereas I have no DOUBT. I feel like I am constantly being challenged with self-doubt about the truths. Before I even begin to read scripture I pray for the spirit of discernment to be with me while I do. That's why while I was reading Hebrews, as I already stated, I was so happy to be understanding what I was reading and then BAM!!! A brick wall shows up and stops me in my tracks. So I stop and read the words, read the words, read all the words and I'm stuck. Sorry, just trying to make you understand where I am coming from lest I be accused of not being like-minded.
Thanks for your help, time, patience and understanding.
Eileen
Kat:
Hi Eileen,
I know it is not always easy to understand something. But think of it like this, you ran into a stumbling block with that word "many," so you ask questions and studied much more because you did not get that at first. Now your understanding is all the more increased by all the additional study that you did searching for the answer. That is a good thing :)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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