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Abraham - Salvation
jll:
In listening to the audio of Mobile 2006, I am under the assumption that Abraham's faith included works. Works meaning that he was going to carry out the sacrifice of his son. Therefore he had faith with works. Correct?
What are these works if they are not "works of the law" or works brought by Gods Grace? ie; grace meaning paideuo - labor, work
If these works are through Gods grace, then how did these works come before Christ?
What am I missing here?
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: jll on December 12, 2008, 06:45:35 PM ---In listening to the audio of Mobile 2006, I am under the assumption that Abraham's faith included works. Works meaning that he was going to carry out the sacrifice of his son. Therefore he had faith with works. Correct?
What are these works if they are not "works of the law" or works brought by Gods Grace? ie; grace meaning paideuo - labor, work
If these works are through Gods grace, then how did these works come before Christ?
What am I missing here?
--- End quote ---
Hello Jill,
Here is a link to Ray's study notes on a bible study from July 2007 titled, 'DO JAMES AND PAUL CONTRADICT? [Are We Saved by Faith Only or by Works Only?]' (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4828.0.html). The link to the audio is on the top of the page.
This is a great bible study as Ray shows from scriptures the difference between works of the law and good works in great detail. I haven't listened to this one in a good minute so I can't remember any exact quotes from Ray, sorry.
Hope this helps,
Marques
aqrinc:
Hi jll,
I see Abraham (believed) and (acted on his belief) It (belief) was accounted to him for righteousness.
george. :)
Romans 4:3:
For what doth the Scripture say? And Abraham believed in God, and it was reckoned unto him as
righteousness.
Galatians 3:6:
Even as Abraham—believed in God, and it was reckoned unto him as righteousness.
James 2:23:
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith—And Abraham believed God, And it was reckoned to him as
righteousness, and, God’s friend, was he called:
--- Quote from: jll on December 12, 2008, 06:45:35 PM ---In listening to the audio of Mobile 2006, I am under the assumption that Abraham's faith included works. Works meaning that he was going to carry out the sacrifice of his son. Therefore he had faith with works. Correct?
What are these works if they are not "works of the law" or works brought by Gods Grace? ie; grace meaning paideuo - labor, work
If these works are through Gods grace, then how did these works come before Christ?
What am I missing here?
--- End quote ---
jll:
Thanks all.
My concern is here.
From July 07 Mobile ....until he did some kind of a work, Abraham's faith was as good as dead....now I know that your faith is real.
Now, Abraham's faith is real, therefore it must contain good works, which comes from Gods grace. It is not a dead faith. These works are good works, not works of the law.
If Grace could not come prior to Christ, where did this Grace come from?
Another quote from Mr. Smith, "What did any of the ancient patriarichs know of "saving grace?" Answer: Nothing!"
Is this "saving grace" different that just grace?
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: jll on December 12, 2008, 09:27:48 PM ---Thanks all.
My concern is here.
From July 07 Mobile ....until he did some kind of a work, Abraham's faith was as good as dead....now I know that your faith is real.
Now, Abraham's faith is real, therefore it must contain good works, which comes from Gods grace. It is not a dead faith. These works are good works, not works of the law.
If Grace could not come prior to Christ, where did this Grace come from?
Another quote from Mr. Smith, "What did any of the ancient patriarichs know of "saving grace?" Answer: Nothing!"
Is this "saving grace" different that just grace?
--- End quote ---
Jill,
Have you listened to the bible study audio from July 2007? Or look through the notes from the study?
Ray talks specifically about the very question you are asking; can you not access the audio?
--- Quote from: mharrell08 on December 12, 2008, 07:42:26 PM ---Hello Jill,
Here is a link to Ray's study notes on a bible study from July 2007 titled, 'DO JAMES AND PAUL CONTRADICT? [Are We Saved by Faith Only or by Works Only?]' (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4828.0.html). The link to the audio is on the top of the page.
This is a great bible study as Ray shows from scriptures the difference between works of the law and good works in great detail. I haven't listened to this one in a good minute so I can't remember any exact quotes from Ray, sorry.
Hope this helps,
Marques
--- End quote ---
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