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[Carlos31]

Hi, I have not read the rapture exposure, And I know this is false, at least how Christian teach it, and I do not have time right now to read it, I will next year if it's Gods will.

Could somebody explain this like in two paragraphs?

Thanks a lot

[Akira329]

Carlos what is stopping you from reading it now?

Antaiwan

[Vangie]

And no, Ray's complete paper can not be explained by any one here in 2 paragraphs.  You've no idea how offensive your request is, obviously, LOL. 

[Carlos31]

offensive? why?

I can't read it know for the following reasons.

I just translated part 2 into spanish, and I am tired.

I have a test tomorrow, project and test on wednesday, and test on thursday.

and the rapture document is 100 and something pages, it is the longest.

I  wanted to read it when I start translating, but if its hard to explain, I guess im going to have to do it my self.

I thought somebody here could, since there are many people with great knowledge here.

[Carlos31]

No, I did not try to say that Ray wrote it for nothing, What I meant was if somebody could give me the main ideas in 2 paragraphs.

[John9362]

Hi Carlos,

You said in a previous post: lol, somebody like 5 min ago wrote in a forum that i was blaspheming also, he accused me of polytheism.

which is false.

Perhaps if you stopped wasting your time at other forums, you would have time to read Ray's paper .....just a thought

[dogcombat]

Sorry Carlos,

There are NO shortcuts to try to explain Ray's paper on this subject in 2 paragraphs.  Though the "rapture" theory can be summed up in TWO words.  DAMNABLE HERESY.  Take your time when reading the paper.  And don't be in a hurry to get ahead of yourself.   It may take 2 sometimes 3 or more reads BEFORE God opens your eyes to the truth.

Ches

[Carlos31]

Yes I have read some of some of Rays papers two or more times, not all of them.
the reason I was at that christian forum, is because I teach there, the stuff I have learned from Rays website and from inspiration, always from God.

I translated the trinity paper and I was posting it there, this way they would come to my web site and read more

[daywalker]

Hi, I have not read the rapture exposure, And I know this is false, at least how Christian teach it, and I do not have time right now to read it, I will next year if it's Gods will.

Could somebody explain this like in two paragraphs?

Thanks a lot

Hey Carlos,

I will not even attempt to shorten Ray's paper to a couple paragraphs.

...But regarding the Rapture theory I will say this:

1. The word 'rapture' is found nowhere in the Scriptures. [I assume you already know this]

2. The idea that Jesus Christ is going to return a 2nd time... TWICE, is not only UNscriptural, but it is 'stupid'. [a common trend in Babylon - 2 Timothy 4:3-4, I Corinthians 1:20]

3. The Rapture THEORY divides the Church. It makes one group Superior to the other.  But Jesus says that "whosoever may be wanting to become great among you, let him be your servant..." - Matthew 20:26-27

4. Every Scripture that is used to 'supposedly' support the Rapture theory, can be easily 'debunked', simply by (a) reading the surrounding verses/chapter, and (b) comparing it with other Scriptures that speak about the 2nd Coming. You will see that they all talk about the SAME EVENT, though some passages will give details that others didn't.

I hope that helps your understanding a little...

That all said, I definitely recommend reading Ray's Paper. I will admit, it took me awhile to read it as well, mainly because I was reading several other of Ray's teachings -among other things- at the same time...


Over & Out,

-Daywalker

[gmik]

Hi Carlos.  God Bless you for all the work you are doing in translating.

 I don't think your question was out of line.  Sometimes we want just to know the ending of something.  Then later we can go back.  I have done that a number of times. I have been on this forum for 3 years I think (came about the same time as Hillsborough River-Joe). I have seen people come and go for various reasons.  Please don't get offended and leave (you may not have even been thinking that!).

To answer your question- No, as you suspected, there is no rapture.  Totally invented by the babylonian system. I know when you have time you will read it to get all the scriptures you need.

[charrie]

Hello

I realize there is no rapture and agree.  Could it be that the "church" got that theory from the following scriptures:
(Young's LT)
Luke 17:34  `I say to you, In that night, there shall be two men on one couch, the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left; 35  two women shall be grinding at the same place together, the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left; 36  two men shall be in the field, the one shall be taken, and the other left.' 37  And they answering say to him, Where, sir?' and he said to them, `Where the body is , there will the eagles be gathered together.

In verse 37 He answers them.  Where are these people taken, to?  In the Rotherham's it uses vultures instead of eagles.  To me vultures may be more appropriate. Why?  eagle else where in scripture is used in a positive way.  And, because in verse 37 He states "where the body is" body is equal to flesh and that would be a negative usage, I believe.

I believe that vultures gather where animals/people are dying and are dead.  So, is He saying that those that are left will continue to die or are not the "elect" and those that are "taken" (raptured) and the elect being changed.  And, as to where the others go, where do they go?? where are they taken, to?? 

I could be totally out of the park altogether here.

I look forward to ye responses.

Charrie

[daywalker]

Hello

I realize there is no rapture and agree.  Could it be that the "church" got that theory from the following scriptures:
(Young's LT)
Luke 17:34  `I say to you, In that night, there shall be two men on one couch, the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left; 35  two women shall be grinding at the same place together, the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left; 36  two men shall be in the field, the one shall be taken, and the other left.' 37  And they answering say to him, Where, sir?' and he said to them, `Where the body is , there will the eagles be gathered together.

In verse 37 He answers them.  Where are these people taken, to?  In the Rotherham's it uses vultures instead of eagles.  To me vultures may be more appropriate. Why?  eagle else where in scripture is used in a positive way.  And, because in verse 37 He states "where the body is" body is equal to flesh and that would be a negative usage, I believe.

I believe that vultures gather where animals/people are dying and are dead.  So, is He saying that those that are left will continue to die or are not the "elect" and those that are "taken" (raptured) and the elect being changed.  And, as to where the others go, where do they go?? where are they taken, to?? 

I could be totally out of the park altogether here.

I look forward to ye responses.

Charrie

Hey Charrie,

I think you're closer than you may realize. Check out this excerpt from Ray's Rapture Paper:
[it's a lil long..]

http://bible-truths.com/rapture.htm

RAPTURE OF THE WICKED

Notice that our Lord instructs us that "as the days of Noah, thus shall it be." Okay then, how was it in the days of Noah? Who was "left" and who was "taken away?"

    "For as they were in those days before the deluge, eating and drinking and marrying and taking in marriage until the day on which Noah entered into the ark, and did not know till the deluge came and takes them all AWAY, thus shall be the presence of the Son of Mankind" (Mat. 24:38-39).

Did you catch that? It was all the wicked who were eating, drinking, and marrying that were "TAKEN AWAY," not Noah and his family!

And so here we have a principle that is used throughout the entire Bible--the good are left and the bad are taken away. Immediately after verse 39 where the wicked are "taken," we have verse 40 which says, "Then two shall be in the field; one [wicked] is taken along and one left: two grinding at the millstone; one [wicked] is taken along and one left."

For further conformation of this look at the parable of the wheat and the tares. You all know the parable, so I won’t repeat all of it. Just notice that the tares

    "are gathered and burned in the fire" (Mat. 13:40).

And

    "they will gather OUT of His Kingdom all things that offend ..." (Ver 41).

So the tares are gathered out and burned and the wheat is left behind.

Notice Romans 8:33, "... God’s elect," Col. 3:12, "... the elect of God ..." Titus 1:1, "... God;s elect ..." Now look at Mat. 24:22, "Yet because of the elect [chosen], those days shall be shortened." Therefore, the "elect" or chosen ones have not been raptured away, but rather left, or God wouldn’t have to shorten the days of tribulation for the sake of the "elect."

Didn’t our Lord clearly pray to His Father, "I am not asking that Thou shouldst be taking them AWAY OUT OF THE WORLD, but that Thou shouldst be keeping them from the wicked one" (John 17:15)?

One more,

    "Again the Kingdom of heaven is like unto a net that was cast into the sea [multitudes of people, Rev. 17:15] and gathered of every kind, which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad AWAY. So shall it be at the end of the age: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, and cast them into the furnace of fire ..." (Mat. 13:47-50).

Clearly the good are retained and kept, but the bad are severed and taken away! If ever there is to be a rapture, it will be A RAPTURE OF THE WICKED, not of the saints!

Now a few Scriptures to show that it was always God’s intention that the righteous remain on this earth:

    "The righteous shall never be REMOVED [or raptured]; and the wicked shall not inherit the earth" (Prove. 10:30).

    "The righteous shall be recompensed in the EARTH [not raptured to heaven]" (Prov. 11:31).

    "Take AWAY the dross from the silver ... Take AWAY the wicked from the King ..." (Prov. 25:4-5).

    "They [the wicked] are as stubble before the wind, and as chaff that the storm carrieth AWAY " (Job 21:18).

    "... take hold of the ends of the earth that the wicked might be shaken OUT of it" (John 38:13).

    And finally, "... REMOVING those things that are shaken [the wicked] ... that those things that cannot be shaken [the righteous] may REMAIN ... accepting an unshakable kingdom ..." (Heb. 12:27-28).

Jesus said He was going to His Father IN HEAVEN to prepare a place for His apostles. Peter said that Christ,

    "... regenerates us into a living expectation, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from among the dead, for the enjoyment of an allotment incorruptible and undefiled and unfading, KEPT IN THE HEAVENS FOR YOU ..." (I Pet. 1:4-5).

And yet we know that Christ brings these treasures BACK TO EARTH.

Why do we think it is any different for the Gentiles? It is not different.

    "... we have a building of God, a house not made by hands, eonian, IN THE HEAVENS." (II Cor. 5:1).

But are we unlike the Jews in that we really GO to heaven to receive our treasures? NO! Next verse: "For in this also we are groaning, longing to be dressed in our habitation which is OUT of heaven ..."

There are so many Scriptures like this that contradict the rapture theory. Look at this one,

    "The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord’s; but the EARTH hath He given to the children of men" (Psalm 115:6). One more, "... for we are your glorying (even as you also are ours) in THE DAY OF OUR LORD JESUS" (II Cor. 1:14).

Not in the "rapture," but in "the day of our Lord."

I seriously doubt whether anyone could prove to us that the place where God dwells, "heaven," is actually a specific geographical location so many light years from the earth on some galactic rock in outer space. In the same way "eternity" is not "a very long time." They are both a condition or a realm. God is in us, while He is in Heaven, while He is also simultaneously, EVERYWHERE!

Since, "... we shall be judging messengers ..." Is it logical to conclude that we will need space worthy bodies to travel among the galaxies of outer space? Maybe we should ask whether messengers really reside millions of light years from earth on the rocks and planets of outer space.

Over & Out,

Daywalker

[Craig]

I realize there is no rapture and agree.  Could it be that the "church" got that theory from the following scriptures:

The church got this doctrine around 1830 because of a "vision" by an young girl, Margaret Mcdonald.  A flim-flam evangelical/snake oil salesman named John Darby took this ball and ran with it.  It wasn't until another "character" by the name of Scofield, made it an accepted doctrine (Yes, he is the Scofield that created a bible that everyone read; not scripture, mind you, but a commentary of his version of scripture)  Suddenly everyone got a readers digest version of scripture and many doctrines were born.  People didn't read and study scriptures but only read the commentary and accepted it as gospel.  Preachers and teachers got hold of it and suddenly they were spouting the Scofield version of scripture.

Craig

[charrie]

Thank ye, so much.  It is the "elect" that remains and the "wicked" that is taken away.  I will now go and study more about that.

Craig, that extra bit of information was excellent, thank you.

I like being among the "called out".  I have NEVER found studing the scriptures to be so fullfiling. 

Also, i like knowing that when I have questions I can post and get the benefit of like minds.

Charrie

[jennie]

That rapture stuff used to scare me to death when I was younger. Now... However God does things at the end.... He has it worked out so I don't really worry about it.

[Amrhrasach]

I realize there is no rapture and agree.  Could it be that the "church" got that theory from the following scriptures:

Suddenly everyone got a readers digest version of scripture and many doctrines were born.  People didn't read and study scriptures ....."
Craig

And interestingly, that seems to never stop.  Of the many, many revelations from Ray, one of the more important tips that I've come across.........and there have been many.........is "You’ve got to read the words."   O how this has graduated my reading skill to a higher level.

That alone has dispelled so much carry on baggage.

Gary

[charrie]

Same here, Jennie

It scared me too.  But I believe that that was the all purpose of the "church" to scare us into obedience.

Like they scare us into tithles.  Give 10% or the Father will take the 90%.  It was even told that your offering should be more than the 10 and that if you gave a general offering NOT to mistake that for the 10.  This you still had to give.  

The "church" and these preachers are extremely seducing.  They create and then feed off the flocks fears. 

But all is according to the Father's divine plan..

Charrie

[Carlos31]

Thanks guys, Yes the church is hundreds of times more corrupt.

not only do you have to pay their salaries, pharisees did not have a salary, that makes theologians worse than pharisees.

And this is not all, they SELL the word of GOD, THEY SELL WORSHIP MUSIC.

WHAT THE HELL IS THIS???

do you see anywhere that King David was selling worshiping music?

NO! What can be more blasphemous than this??

Oh I know!!!

In Babylon parents sacrifice their children in fire for their god Baal. so why not invent that this "god" will also burn billions of his children for ALL ETERNITY!!!

this is surely more sick than what the Babylonians did, because its for all eternity!!!

[daywalker]

Thanks guys, Yes the church is hundreds of times more corrupt.

not only do you have to pay their salaries, pharisees did not have a salary, that makes theologians worse than pharisees.

And this is not all, they SELL the word of GOD, THEY SELL WORSHIP MUSIC.

WHAT THE HELL IS THIS???

do you see anywhere that King David was selling worshiping music?

NO! What can be more blasphemous than this??

Oh I know!!!

In Babylon parents sacrifice their children in fire for their god Baal. so why not invent that this "god" will also burn billions of his children for ALL ETERNITY!!!

this is surely more sick than what the Babylonians did, because its for all eternity!!!

So True... It's too bad most Christians don't think about these things

- Daywalker

[Carlos31]

if you go into Joel osteen's web site, it almost looks like a market.

if i remember right he even sells sermons