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Author Topic: Church today...  (Read 25321 times)

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charrie

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Re: Church today...
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2008, 07:34:14 PM »

Respectfully we can agree to disagree on this topic until i can understand better.

Yes we can.


Matt. 10:34-39  Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

1 Thess 5:21-23  Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Tim 3:12-13  Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.



Fester, I know it is difficult (as I have a wife and 2 girls who attend church weekly), but we cannot 'agree to disagree' with scriptures. George was not proving his personal opinion, he was only commenting on what the scriptures tell us.

You stated that we should think of our loved ones as well...what about Christ? Is He not a 'loved one'?

Perhaps you could live by example by staying home and continue to worship in spirit & truth...then eventually, your family will come TO YOU and wonder about your behavior. Just a suggestion, and not trying to change your life overnight, but pointing to the spiritual truth of the matter.


Hope this helps,

Marques



Yes, we indeed are a spiritual people.  We discontinue all outward appearance of working to be saved, Father expects love from the heart, obedience from the heart (intentions).However, our spiritual works are physical.  All the scriptural quotes above from Marques can only occur in the physical.  Having the members of our own household against us is physical, abstaining from all appearances of evil is physical, suffering from persecution is physical.

Making the very, very difficult decision to Love Jesus more than daughter, sister, brother is physically, mentally hard.  But if you think about it, our Big Brother's sacrifice was a physical act of love.  He could have stayed in an extremely comfortable place but instead CHOOSE to take the difficult road of obedience to the Father.

Again, we can all attest to the difficulty of the physical obedience to the Father, let alone the spiritual difficulty, but Light cannot remain in darkness and shine and salt without flavor cannot perserve.

I have a family, too.  But, if I really love them, which I do, before I ever open my mouth they will have to see my works.  And, I love them so, so very much, BUT I LOVE FATHER MOREI say this with tears running down my face at this very moment, but this is the cross we must all bear.

Yes George was providing his opinion based on his interpretation and personal applications of the scriptures.  Just as you have too.  George and I agree to disagree on the application of these scriptures to our lives and not on the scriptures themselves.  Neither of us disagree with the scriptures.  I interpret all the scriptures he lists and the ones you list in a spiritual manner.  Perhaps you can live your life by the 'physical' and continue to stay home and I will live mine by 'spiritual' interpretations of the scriptures in the manner God is leading me.  Just a suggestion, and you will never change my life, only God and His spiritual truths will.
 
Your questions on the love of Christ are demeaning and not worthy of a reply.


Fester,

I wasn't trying to be demeaning...I was only responding to your comment where you stated 'we cannot just think of ourselves all the time'.

Matt. 8:21-22  And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Was Christ telling this disciple to only think of himself? Placing the will of the Father above loved ones is an admirable quality...not a selfish one. Could this disciple obeyed this commandment by physically going to the bury his father but spiritually having his heart elsewhere? Was Christ telling us to come out of Babylon in our heart but we could stay physically? Are there any commandments that one could obey spiritually and not physically?

I am not interested in 'being right' or pushing an agenda...it is only to help all with understanding the scriptures and what our Lord commands. The same way many members help me and others with their comments and discussions. Hope this helps with whoever is seeking understanding...and those who are not seeking, I guess it is of no benefit for them.


Marques

Exactly, Marques, everyone of us are doing our best to help and edify one another.  This walk is difficult enough and the commandment to love one another, to live in peace and unity should be applied even here.

We love you and may Father give us ALL the strength to carry our crosses.  They are heavy, heavy with tears.


Charrie  :-*
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Fester

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Re: Church today...
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2008, 08:06:55 PM »

Matt. 8:21-22  And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Was Christ telling this disciple to only think of himself? Placing the will of the Father above loved ones is an admirable quality...not a selfish one. Could this disciple obeyed this commandment by physically going to the bury his father but spiritually having his heart elsewhere? Was Christ telling us to come out of Babylon in our heart but we could stay physically? Are there any commandments that one could obey spiritually and not physically?
 

 Thanks for the scripture lesson on spiritual truths applied to the physical (flesh).
 
Yes, we indeed are a spiritual people.  We discontinue all outward appearance of working to be saved, Father expects love from the heart, obedience from the heart (intentions).However, our spiritual works are physical.  All the scriptural quotes above from Marques can only occur in the physical.  Having the members of our own household against us is physical, abstaining from all appearances of evil is physical, suffering from persecution is physical.
(bold emphasis mine)
 
Thanks for the lesson that some scriptures can only occur in the physical (flesh).
 
 
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.
   John 6:63
 
I pray everyday for God to open my eyes to more of His spiritual truths in the scriptures.
   
I have said all that I have to say on this topic.

I am finished replying in this thread.

May God bless us all.
 
« Last Edit: December 29, 2008, 12:47:56 AM by Fester »
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"Christianity began as a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. When it went to Athens, it became a philosophy. When it went to Rome, it became an organization. When it went to Europe, it became a culture. When it came to America, it became a business."

charrie

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Re: Church today...
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2008, 10:16:19 PM »

May Father open ALL our eyes.  I prey HE starts with ME FIRST.

Charrie :-*
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daywalker

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Re: Church today...
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2008, 05:23:35 PM »

I went to church with my girlfriend and her family. It was an interesting experience. What shocked me the most is that when i asked for a bible, because i wanted to read the bible because i havn't for a very long time now. They told me they didn't have any... i was absolutely shocked. A church without bibles for its members... Well im not a member, but i was certainly attending for the christmas ceremony [because it ment alot to my gf's family.]

So i bring this up, because i was wondering, doesn't anyone else find this a bit shocking? I mean.. i knew people didn't know the Truth, but now i'm starting to see why. The church's wont even keep bibles in the pews during mass or anything. Just hymnal books, no wonder its so easy to be indoctrinated.

Infact my girlfriends brother stated with frustration after i expressed my shock that; "They just read the story to us." He said "i don't know how they do it at your church but thats how they do it here." I told Him i didn't go to "church" and asked "wouldn't you like to read it for yourself?" To which he replied much the same as his first.

Boy! To me this his like a school without books! A science class without the instruments! Does anyone else think as i do about this?

Curiouse on your thoughts.

God bless,

Alex

Funny story:

My mom wanted me to go with her to Church on Christmas Eve, and I said what for? She got silent cause she knows the "Truth" as I've shared it with her and she believes, yet still wants to hold on to her 'idol of the heart' Babylonian-Style Church..

Then my brother-in-law said he wanted to go, and said that he was sad that it's Christmas and 'nobody knows what Christmas is about these days',
to which I replied, 'What is Christmas about, Mike?'
and of course he replied 'Jesus' Birthday'.
And I said.. "Oh, Really?"
Then he hesitated and said to me, 'isn't it?'
To which I replied, 'Jesus was born around September. Roman Catholics made Christmas Jesus' Birthday. If you really want a Christmas sermon, I'll give you one!"
But my sister got upset, and said 'Mom, Chris is ruining my Christmas!" Lol we all started laughing...

Fun times at the 'Adams Residence'...


Over & Out,

Daywalker.
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charrie

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Re: Church today...
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2008, 10:35:11 PM »

Thank You, Daywalker


 :D :D :D

Charrie :-*
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judith collier

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Re: Church today...
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2008, 12:00:58 AM »

I've known many beautiful souls who love God and a lot of them were in churches. I am finding this conversation difficult as the arrogance that we would judge where a soul is at with the Lord is totally out of line as though we were the only ones who have the truth (Christ) I think this is a big mistake, this attitude of superiorority I am finding here. I came here with the love of God and never will I condemn another in their search for God. People grow by the grace of God and who are we to say they are all lost? I love sinners as well as saints and if I can contribute ANYTHING of worth to their spiritual state, Lord lead me, even if it is into Babylon as you all here use this expression.
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aqrinc

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Re: Church today...
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2008, 12:32:10 AM »


Hi Judith,

Ray has written much on this very subject, no one is condemning the church goers we
all were exactly like them before God calls or drags us out. But the practices that the
Church engages in is in fact babylonish in every possible way.

george.  :)
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judith collier

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Re: Church today...
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2008, 01:20:56 AM »

George, thank you for the reply. I understand where you are coming from but I am a human being and we were meant to dwell together and sometimes I want the physical presence of other humans. I love to worship God with the Pentacostals, receive Holy Communion with the Catholics, go across the river to the black church and hear a fiery sermon and have picnics with the Methodists. I don't argue scripture, if husbands can be won without a word then why can't they? I thought , what's that verse or two about how you can give all you have but have not Charity, you have nothing. My experience with God has been merciful and loving, I was not called to be a preacher. I was saved and laid out with a consuming fire that lasted for days, I cannot do anything but love and I do it and so much more for 30+ years and have suffered greatly and still do, but I stay open to the Holy Spirit and will not go back to  nit-picking others and their churches. I am a bit hot here but I am very passionate and when God's main purpose is to love(for me anyway) and I feel that is challenged I will try to call the truth out as I see it. I am also very forgiving and I hold no anger towards the others but the truth is my top priority. God loves all His children even the mistaken and especially the lost and I trust Him with His people. Forgive me if I have been too harsh towards everyone, this is the first time here anything has bothered me. I love reading Ray's writings and haven't found one thing to upset me but I can sniff out an attitude pretty quick and it was getting petty.
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aqrinc

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Re: Church today...
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2008, 02:28:57 AM »

Judith, there may be people online here that seem to be harsh or not charitable (not so from my experience). In some cases abrupt yes, hasty, yes, tempermental yes unloving; not that i can discern. It does get pretty lonely sometimes but that is mostly because God's Calling is not as easy as we would like to think. We are told to chose this day whom we will serve:

Joshua 24:15:
And if it seem evil to you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom you will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

george. ???
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judith collier

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Re: Church today...
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2008, 03:00:25 AM »

o.k. George you're on. What's that bible verse got to do with what I said and in practical situations please as I am most practical. Did you think I meant I loved the people more than God? Are we not to gather ourselves together (in person) Am I to be relegated to this room whereas my blind husband and blind brother-in-law have the rest of the house. Am I to stay away from my heathen son? Am I not to teach a mental health class to a bunch of disturbed people? Where do you suggest I go for companionship at the ripe old age of 66? Should I go and relax alone ? I do not understand. I am being very facetious but where exactly am I going wrong here? Sincerely and truthfully, Judy
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aqrinc

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Re: Church today...
« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2008, 04:02:47 AM »


Judith,

I think no such thing, just pointing out the stark difference between what we want to do versus what we are called to do. Separation is a hard thing when we love our neighbor, but separate we must in if we would be of any use in accomplishing the very goal you want. I am 56 and have been around long enough to be stubborn about anything disagreeable to me but; i also have learned that the less i try to do for the kingdom; the more i get done and the converse is also true for me. Here are a few Scriptures and comments from Ray to help us out.

excerpt from: http://bible-truths.com/lake7.html

NOT MANY WISE ARE CALLED

Maybe if you or I created the human race, we would have done it that way. But we didn’t; God did; and He didn’t do it our way. God never intended for everyone to understand His Word or His Plan except for the few that He calls in every generation. He is not even trying to save the whole world in this lifetime or even in this age. The prophet Habakkuk tells us this,

"For the earth shall be FILLLED with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea" (Hab. 2:14).

Oh it "shall" shall it? WHY NOT NOW? Wouldn’t it be better NOW if the earth were FILLLED with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord? Why later? Because it is God’s way. Let me quote Hab. 2:3 from the Revised Standard Version:

"For there is still a vision for the APPOINTED TIME; it speaks of THE END, and does not lie., If it seems to tarry, wait for it, it will surely come, IT WILL NOT DELAY."

God’s ways take time and He does everything according to His schedule, trust me, EVERYTHING IS RIGHT ON SCHEDULE.

Why God hasn’t even called whole categories of people during the past two thousand years:

"For you see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, ARE CALLED" (I Cor. 1:26).

And of those called, only a "few are chosen." And those few are admonished to search, and hunt, and dig for the truth. None of this is an accident nor is it God’s plan gone amuck. God’s plan is on schedule to the millionth of a millisecond. God knows how many hairs were lost on your head today because He had already planned how many you would lose, a long time ago.

Excerpt from winning souls: http://bible-truths.com/souls.htm

GOD PREDETERMINES WHO GETS SAVED AND WHEN

"Now we are aware that God [Who? GOD. Men—ourselves? NO—GOD] is working all together for the good of those who are loving God who are called according to the purpose that, whom He foreknew, He designates beforehand, also, to be conformed to the image of His Son for Him to be Firstborn among many brethren. Now whom He designates beforehand, these He calls also, and whom He calls, these He justifies also; now whom He justifies, these He glorifies also" (Rom. 8:28-30, Concordant Literal New Testament).

It is ALL OF GOD. It is not wrong to tell others of your knowledge of God and His Word. It is not, however, your responsibility to "get people saved." Only God can do that.

It is GOD who does the calling:

"For ye see your calling brethren how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen [Who? ‘GOD’] the weak things of this world to confound the things which are mighty…" (I Cor. 1:26-27).

It is GOD who does the dragging:

"No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent Me, draw him [Gk: ‘drag him’]…" (John 6:44).

It is CHRIST Who chooses from those His Father dragged:

"Ye have not chosen Me, but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU…" (John 15:16).

Eventually this will include all mankind:

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me" (John 12:32).

And all will respond to God’s judgments and chastisements:

george. :)

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judith collier

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Re: Church today...
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2008, 04:35:59 AM »

I never thought in a million years I could save anybody. But I still don't see why I have to stay away from other believers.
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judith collier

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Re: Church today...
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2008, 04:48:24 AM »

I don't get that one verse--"it PLEASED God  by by their preaching ??? And that other verse in Habbukk where he said the vision was far off---That's a verse the Lord gave to me and I never to this day even knew what the vision was, I just thought it was of Him because He showed me his Majesty. And I never knew what I was supposed to do. I had to look up the word "justified" because it came to me in the Spirit so strong and I figured it was  the lord  telling me I was justified even though I didn't know what it was. It has been a long haul. I know only God can save. And when I do anything good all people say is "how good Judy is" and I don't want that, I want God to be glorified not me but they think i am a great person and that is not my intent. I do no good really as far as God goes.And I was the weakest and just about the dumbest.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 04:53:16 AM by judith collier »
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mharrell08

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Re: Church today...
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2008, 12:13:33 PM »

Few excerpts from email to Ray regarding 'church':

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7233.0.html
Dear Robert:  Unless you are interested in the Truths of God, I don't think you should bother to read the material on my site. It is straight from the Scriptures, and for that reason, it is most offensive to most Christians.

    There is no "local church."  I do not belong to any local church or institutionalized denomination of men. No such group would ever tolerate anyone teaching the Truths of God. I am not here to parrot the "damnable heresies" (I Pet. 2:1) of some "local church."

    My site is not for religious hobbyists. On this site you will learn the plan and purpose of God, which involves changing one's life completely and living godly and righteously according to the teachings of Jesus. Not many people are interested in changing or living godly lives. If you want "religion," go to church--ANY church. If you are interested in the Truths of God, start with the first article at the top of our home page: "YOU FOOLS! YOU HYPOCRITES! YOU SNAKES"--Meet the Jesus that most hate.

    Did Jesus "establish His Christian presence in His community?"  Wait....His community....wasn't it His "community" that CRUCIFIED HIM?  Wasn't it the religious leaders of God's Church and Temple that CRUCIFIED HIM?  Are you wanting to find such a religious man as that?  One who is "established in his community?"  One whom everyone "speaks well of?" I assure you that you are at the wrong web site. Read my first article.

    God be with you,

    Ray

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2678.0.html
Dear Neill:

I am exactly of NO church or denomination of institutionalized men. I am a member "The Body of Chirst," which is a Scriptural term and represents the followers of Jesus.

God be with you,

Ray

PS   You don't really believe that there is a "church" that teaches what we teach on bibletruths.com, do you?

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2193.0.html
Dear Reader:
    I appreciate your good intent, however, I sincerely (in LOVE) believe that your are also wrong in suggesting that I do not do what I do in love and that naming names, etc., is a sin.
    If that be the case, then our Apostle Paul is in BIG TROUBLE with His God, seeing that they named numerous names of those who taught heresy and caused devision.  Furthermore we are INSTRUCTED to "Expose those who contradict it [it being the True Doctrines of God]" Titus 1:9 (See Concordant Version nd New Revised Standard Version).
    I do not "judge" these men: I EXPOSE THEIR HERESY!!  I have repeatedly stated that many of these lying two-faced false prophets and hypocrites have very plesant personalities, etc.
    I think that I shall continue to do what God has called me to do, but thanks anyway.
    God be with you,
    Ray
     
    PS   Don't have the time to comment on those who are "sincere," but teach heresy.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4814.0.html
Dear Nate: I get asked this a lot, but there is no easy formula for me to give you. You know that you should obey God. This is the primary thing we must all do. But for me to tell you how to live your life on a daily basis, I'm afraid I can't do.  If you don't know whether you should continue living in the Babylonian Church system, what good would it be for me to tell you that God says, "COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE...." (Rev. 18:4)?  If you try to convert your family, friends, and relatives to your new-found truths, they will think you crazy or may even turn on you.  So leave them alone. The way you conduct your life will speak volumes about what you believe, however, clever arguments will convince no one.  Of the tens of thousands of detractors who have tried to contradict my teachings, which I then answered and proved them wrong with the Scriptures, how many do you suppose said: "Oh, okay, now I see it.  I'm sorry. I was deceived. I see now that you do teach the truth"?  Would you believe 2 or 3? That's right--2 or 3 out of tens of thousands.
 
You will face ever-changing challenges in your life--every few seconds, minutes, and hours of every day. You will have to decide how to handle these situations, one at a time. Learn the Truth and then live by the Truth.  Did Jesus teach His apostles how to react to every situation that would confront them after He was gone?  No, no He didn't.  Life is indeed a challenge, and in the final analysis it all comes down to YOU AND GOD.  I am at the same place that you are, Nate.  No one tells me how to solve all my problems. I just obey God and rely on Him to see me through.  Many people want to be teachers after learning a few of the basic truths of God. This is generally a mistake, as it takes more to be a teacher than a desire to teach.  I might desire to be a great singer, or a great speller--the reality is both are totally out of the question.  I am what I am by the grace of God. I realize that most think it is rather scary to try and live a righteous life not knowing exactly what to do and how to do it.  Your darn right it's scary.  Life is scary.  But knowing that there is a loving God Who is carrying out a righteous and wise purpose on this earth is a giant aid to our infirmities.
 
There is no better way to assuage our own inadequacies than to help others with theirs.  I remember when I was going to college back in California, we took a weekend camping trip to the San Bernadino Mountains. One day we climbed this mountain. A couple of chaperone's brought their children. At one place high up the mountain we followed a trail that was precariously close to a cliff with a long drop. I was getting a little nervous. However, close to me was one of the children (a girl of maybe 8 or 9 years), and she was beginning to have a panic attack.  I took her by the hand and put her on the inside and assured her that we would not fall.  My fear left me immediately, and the little girl did just fine also.  I never forgot that experience.  Help and love others, and your life will begin to take on meaning.
God be with you,
Ray


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4591.0.html
Dear Jayson: I think I know what you mean by saying "your [my] church," but the truth really is, that I don't have a church. The world has churches, and Satan has his church (called in Revelation "The Synagogue of Satan), but I belong to none of them. The Church of Jesus Christ, the Church of the Living God, can only be joined by being SPIRITUALLY BAPTIZED INTO THE DEATH OF JESUS CHRIST.  All spiritually converted people who forsake the glitter of this world's philosophies and materialism, are members of Christ's Church. I do claim to have a ministry in that Church.  We advertise on the major search engines such as "Google." Tens of thousands of people a month come to our site and hear the true Gospel of Jesus Christ and the plan of God for humanity.  Individuals are also posting and spreading the material of bible-truths.com.  To my surprise my name even pops up numerous times in such places as Wikipedia articles.  We now have a couple of dozen people w ho contribute regularly to this ministry. One day I hope we will have a thousand, and then we will really begin to make a dent in our coverage. But  as Jesus lamented:  "The harvest truly is plenteous, but the laborers are few"  (Matt. 9:37).

        God be with you,

        Ray


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3446.0.html
Dear Roy:

    You don't need a church when you learn that YOU ARE THE CHURCH.  God is wherever you are, so don't feel deserted.

    God be with you,

    Ray



This is a subject that continues to cause division among members here when we all are to take on the mind of Christ [Phil 2:5] and be of one accord [Phil 2:2]. Though it takes the spirit of God to bring us into the unity of the spirit, some here are choosing to dwell in the flesh. God does not make anyone dwell in the flesh, we do that all by ourselves.

The members here know it is harder for others to simply leave the church...no one ever said it is easy. But to resist the truth and take a stubborn, hardened stance on this is NOT OF GOD. If this is an issue that one is still searching for understanding of, fine. We all have our different things we struggle with and these things humble us. But do not stand up and try to reason with wickedness and unbelief. That is not humble in the least and only causes division.

And this is my opinion, but it still amazes me (even after a year) that we all came here based off Ray's teachings. But then after a short while to joining the forum, a few members will disregard the very teachings which brought them here for their own, personal beliefs. These own, personal beliefs are the doctrines of (insert your name here) and not the doctrines of Christ [John 7:16-17]. Which one are we to follow?


Thanks,

Marques


P.S.  Ray has numerous email replies to people regarding church here: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3108.0.html, in the #7 reply thread.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 12:16:58 PM by mharrell08 »
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Marlene

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Re: Church today...
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2008, 12:16:39 PM »

Judith, I have not been a member here too long, but I was going through the same thoughts you are now. I saw many people in the church where I was going as way better people then I was. I also, had concern about them that I did not need to have. I had fear for the ones who God had not called out yet. When, in reality he was going to handle them the same way he handles us now who have been called out.

Now, I know that truth is not taught in those churches. I worked with a girl who was from Jordan. She thought we worshiped more then one God cause of the Trinity. I believe if I would have known the truth maybe she would have believed in Christ. I had a friend many years ago who Sister was always telling her we were going to Hell. I hate to say it now, but I believed nonbelievers were going to Hell. Now, I see that many may have called upon Christ , but because of the lies they did not even want to hear about him. So, for me half-truths are enough for me not to want to be in Babylon's Churches.

Now, I feel bad but my Mother lives with me she is 88 she likes to go to church more to be social with the world. She believes in God but never understood the Trinity and never believed there was a Hell. My Husband, liked to go to be social too. When, I decided not to go anymore they both said, "If you don't go we won"t go. Boy that made me have such a guilty feeling about them. But, I have had times in my life where I hurt God for others. I am no longer in that place. I love him above anything. Another way I look at things now is that they made that choice I never forced them. Now, My Mother wants me to buy her a Bible like they use on here. They listen to things from here with me now. I know sometimes they miss church, but at least they have not turned there backs on me. I am so blessed for that as I am not well. I just can't go to a place that does not tell the truth. We don't even know when others will be called out. I was very active in my church. I use to sing solos in church and people would brag. There was times I felt like a hypocrite cause I had many sins I could not overcome. After, learning the truth he helped me to have victory over some and still guides and leads me. I read my Bible more and really love my alone time with him.

I don't know if this helps any. But, when God showed me the truth I did not want to turn away from it . Right before finding out there was no Hell, I had a sin in my life that I felt desearved Hell. I just seemed to fail him so badly. He helped me overcome that sin and set me free from the fear of Hell. Actually, thinking he would send anyone to Hell was the worse sin that I think I have ever done. I was thinking about his Character and that was not good. If, I thought I could love, did I think he could love less. Now, I look on it and see how dumb I really was. I mean he tells us to love enemies and we think he doesn't. But, we are children of thed truth now and we have no business with the dark. All, we can do is pray for them, but even that is his call not ours.

In His Love,
Marlene
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Linny

  • Guest
Re: Church today...
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2008, 02:02:34 PM »

Hi Judith,

I understand where you are coming from. I also agree with what Marques is saying.
If I may, I'd like to tell you how we have dealt with this issue in our lives.

First, we came out of the church. I will say this. God made it so easy for us. My husband believed as I did, immediately upon finding the truth. Second, He allowed us to see first hand the "truth" of those we were sitting under in our last church. The last 2 churches we attended were a very sad lot of greedy, kissing-up-to-the-wealthy, could-care-less-about-us, pastors. But we, like you, found so many people who loved the Lord sitting in the pews.

I love my friends. I love having friends. I still have friends. I don't go to church with them. I don't discuss BT with them UNLESS directed to by the Lord or unless they ask me a direct question. I only have about 5 friends who I can speak openly to about our new beliefs. But my other friends are still precious to me and I pray that one day God will open their eyes too and He'll direct me to share with them. But until then, I can love them and offer advise to them when they ask and let them love on me too.

So I guess what I am saying is that you can have non-BT friends. Jesus hung out with the "blind" all the time. As Ray said in one of his responses once... 'Didn't Jesus "eat and socialize with SINNERS in their own homes?"'  But you don't have to worship with them in a church. Honestly, I can't worship with them as we don't worship the same truth. The true gospel of Jesus is not found in the churches. So the true Jesus is not worshipped there. How can I go in there to worship and not be a hypocrite or ignore what I know to be true?

Bless you,
Lin

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Amrhrasach

  • Guest
Re: Church today...
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2008, 03:07:15 PM »


Unless you are interested in the Truths of God, I don't think you should bother to read the material on my site. It is straight from the Scriptures, and for that reason, it is most offensive to most Christians.

I am not here to parrot the "damnable heresies" (I Pet. 2:1) of some "local church."

God be with you,

Ray




I am exactly of NO church or denomination of institutionalized men. I am a member "The Body of Chirst," which is a Scriptural term and represents the followers of Jesus.

God be with you,

Ray


We all have our different things we struggle with and these things humble us.

Thanks,

Marques


Indeed, and Amen.

Gary
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judith collier

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Re: Church today...
« Reply #37 on: December 30, 2008, 03:51:17 PM »

Thanks Marlene and Linny I respond better to a soft touch. I don't attend church regurally whereas I used to be very involved. I don't think I will ever get rid of that guilt. Yes, I believe we are the church and I did return more than a few times but left again and I do have one friend who believes as I do and we are close,  another I just don't argue with. My husband says he doesn't believe in God even though everyday I try to show Him God's love. He hates being blind and it is a sorrowful state. My children(4) and 7 grandchildren are much more open to me, I guess it's because I always tought them to think for themselves. One of my families are deep into a church and they don't even believe what is taught, it's more a social situation. If I challenge them, well, I know it is time to shut up. God, how I miss my traditions(yes, I know) And it is lonely as I don't have the time or energy to socialize much as I also have leukemia and tire easily. But I do get up everyday and trust God to help me through with his strenghth. Funny how things worked out, I always thought it would be so much better but I thank God for what is. My husband is not nor has been a good match and even betrayed me for 10 years and now I help him and his brother who was so mean to me when I was young. I always wonder if I missed what I was supposed to do, surely I did. This doesn't seem like God loves me but I believe it anyway. Thanks, Judy
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Marlene

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Re: Church today...
« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2008, 04:11:03 PM »

Judy, Gods love is the only one we can really count on. All, our trials are for a purpose. When, I feel down it helps me to know he loves me. I believe many need a soft touch. I find it always works better for me.

In His Love,
Marlene
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pinko

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Re: Church today...
« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2008, 09:20:37 PM »

My husband is not nor has been a good match and even betrayed me for 10 years and now I help him and his brother who was so mean to me when I was young. I always wonder if I missed what I was supposed to do, surely I did. This doesn't seem like God loves me but I believe it anyway.

Judith-- your husband was the exact match for you, as God intended it.  And, you can stop wondering...you did not miss what you were supposed to do!  Everything has gone exactly as planned.  So God does love you; you can believe that.

Ya gotta let go of the 'coulda-woulda-shoulda' mentality.  God's plan for you is perfect.  You are exactly where He wants you to be.  You can believe that.
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