> General Discussions
Babylonian scriptures please.
hillsbororiver:
Mat 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
Mat 16:11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
Mat 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Joh 2:16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house a house of merchandise.
2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not and their damnation slumbereth not.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Peace,
Joe
Marlene:
I think all the above people gave you all the scriptures you need. Now, I gave money and also of my time in mans churches. I became seriously ill. It cost thousands of dollars. Our, minister had the nerve to take the exact amount we gave a week during a service. He used scriptures to scare us into believe that I was ill because he might kill me for not tithing. I am sorry, first things they look at is your outward man. Things you have. My husband and I always gave what we could afford and God always met our basic needs. I did not leave from hurt. He said, he never knew what any one gave. We knew that many had left because he told what they gave. My own family who set on the board knew. That is My husbands family. Well, we left because he lied and sat himself up as God. I had temps of 109 and 107 for days. Infection, so high they could not count it. I am a walking miracle. Also, the hospital paid off half my bills. God took care of me. He always has. I might not drive a fancy car or have a fancy house. But, I have a nice of enough home and food on talbe and bills paid. My husband and I have always worked hard labour jobs.I am not ashame of it.
Ray's Website has been a blessing to me. Just know man teaches such a sickening thing as Hell in churches is a call to me to walk away from them. Man churches are hooked up with govenment systems. I am sorry it is clear as the nose on my face most all of them are in it for the money. There are some preachers who truly do it for the right reason. But, truth shoud prevail. I am sorry there is very little truth taught in them. I think the above people gave you plenty of scriptures to support Ray's teachings. Ray has been in the those wicked church systems. I am blessed to know that teachers like Ray exist. I believe that God will have his say over Ray and his website. I also, believe that if something were to happen God is able to raise up another just as he had others in Bible times. I don't usally get like this, but this is the truths of God we are talking about. I take a stand. I have been shown truth and I will not return to Babylon. Yes, there are people caught up in it. There will be more come out. I just thank God I came out. Just wondering how long do you think that your no believe in Hell would stand up with most of Babylon's teachers. We are not just taking stand on what Ray believes. We are taking a stand on what God teaches us in the scriptures. None, of us think we are better. It all is of Christ. But, I do want to obey him cause I love him. I read an article the other day that the average minister makes $70,000 a year. They also get there living expenses paid for. Looks pretty wordly to me. Also, they say that most are lucky to work 8 hours a week. Unless, of coure you are rich and writing books and own jets. They may put some time in. Time in making there pocketbooks fatter. Well, I will leave it at that. But, I know Jesus would never lived like that. Spiritual blessing are only thing of value. They can not even compare to material blessings.
I can hardly get over the fact that I was so dumb and blind not to see that Our Father is a loving God and not some tyrant. I worship him in Spirit and Truth and I have no shame for that.
In His Love,
Marlen
EKnight:
I can certainly see the scriptural reference to female gender regarding Jerusalem, Judah, Babylon etc. But I still don't see the scriptural reference to Babylon being the church or christendom except that Ray says that's what is being referred to.
"Doctrine" doesn't merely refer to religious teachings. My kids learn the doctrine's of man everyday. They are being "indoctrinated" by the ways of man (flesh). People, outside of any church, consider their carnal ways acceptable because most of "society" says its all okay. My children think I am out of touch with reality because I am not of that same mindset. It is getting harder and harder to remain in the world without partaking of her sins. I can see how martincisneros might view Babylon as being "of the world" rather than "church". It makes as much sense to me as Babylon being the church does. Not everyone is part of a church or a religious sect.
Maybe someday I will see it, but right now, I don't.
Eileen
Dennis Vogel:
Martin, you said:
--- Quote ---When I read through the book of Revelation, Mystery Babylon seems more like an economic system than a religious one...
--- End quote ---
God said to come out of her MY PEOPLE. Since the entire world has an intertwined economic system does that mean that even non-Christians can also be considered God's People?
How many daughters does Babylon have? Are all currencies daughters?
No, the answer is the Christian Church is Babylon. The church contains the many called but only the chosen come out of her.
Which begs the question: can the entire world be considered the called if Babylon is an economic system?
You also said:
--- Quote ---Even if religion were big business, which I seriously doubt with personally knowing how much it costs to do anything.
--- End quote ---
You have got to be kidding! All the major TBN preachers are serious big business. You need to do a little research on these preachers living habits.
--- Quote ---Walmart's a big business, but it's disgusting on other terms. Not 'cause it's big. Did God make the money for the gangsters or for His children that walk with Him? However the Babylonian mentality that tries to put as many people on minimum wage as possible and then to randomly cut their hours and benefits at will, while making unreasonable demands upon them the rest of the time that stress them out, stress out their families, stress out their time with the Word of God to where most wind up falling away from the amount of time that the Word demands from every man -- now that's evil.
--- End quote ---
Your words may sound righteous, but you are showing extreme ignorance about economics Martin. Were it not for Walmart this country would have been in trouble many years sooner. Walmart is the worlds largest employer and has single handedly kept inflation down while the government prints money as fast as it can. In an ideal world everyone would make a reasonable income, but this is not an ideal world. No one is forced to work at Walmart.
--- Quote ---Anything that forcefully deprives one of their time and attention to the Word, the Blood, their faith, and the Anointing is AntiChrist, or Anti the Anointed One and His Anointing, which removes burdens and destroys yokes.
--- End quote ---
That would include Almighty God Martin, because it is God who intentionally blinds the world.
And you are totally wrong about the Anti-Christ. The Anti-Christ lives in YOU Martin (as well as the rest of us). And it's all by design which you deny, else you would not make statements that imply we have any power to change anything.
--- Quote ---It takes more than it ever gives back. God's the only One that'll start paying you what you're worth if you avoid getting offended, protect your heart with all diligence, and not stray to the right or left from the exceeding great and precious promises that you're holding before a crooked and perverse generation.
--- End quote ---
Total nonsense! You have no control over anything Martin. Zero control. You are not in control of anything. God is not a respecter of persons. No one is "worth" more than any other person.
--- Quote ---I can't get into most of it and make a good faith attempt at abiding by the rules of the forum and being respectful in another person's house where Ray's ministry is concerned. But this one thing of calling the wheat and the tares Babylon is one of my very, very few peeves.
--- End quote ---
The wheat are the chosen and the tares are the called. This is one of the foundations of bible-truths.com and if you do not understand this then you need to take some time off and READ the articles Martin.
This is just what I quickly skimmed from what you wrote. Frankly, you do not belong here until you have read everything on bible-truths.com. But you are welcome to try and defend your foolish statements. I'd like you to start with free-will since you imply over and over we have free-will.
My apologies to others who may have answered these same points as I have not read every post in this thread.
Dennis
Kat:
Hi Eileen,
--- Quote ---But I still don't see the scriptural reference to Babylon being the church or christendom except that Ray says that's what is being referred to.
--- End quote ---
You have to understand that the Scriptures do not write things out in plain language for all to understand. Why do you think that Jesus spoke in parables?
Mark 4:11 And He said to them, "To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside, all things come in parables,
v. 12 so that
"Seeing they may see and not perceive,
And hearing they may hear and not understand;
Lest they should turn,
And their sins be forgiven them."'
Those that have been given 'eyes to see' God will give understanding of the meaning of Scripture. But for those who are still blinded it is meant to be a "mystery." If the Scriptures came right out and said that Babylon was the Catholic church and all the Christian denominational churches, where is the mystery? How would they be blind to who they are and deceived?
Rev 12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
God is not judging the world in this age nor giving them understanding of His truths, but rather giving us a life experience.
John 12:46 I have come as light into the world, that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness (the few).
v. 47 If any one hears my sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him (the many); for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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