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Babylonian scriptures please.
aqrinc:
Hi Martincisneros,
Short answer is all that economic stuff is physical and not trying to compete with the Gospel of The Kingdom.
The Religions of The World All teach man's way to be God and perverts all the good things from God for their
own version of immortal mankind. Commerce is how we in the physical world work and live and learn even when
in the control of oppressive people or government. Ray and The Scriptures make the point that God is calling
man out of Christendom in this age. Btw if you notice Religion today is the big business, who gets 10% + 10%
+ 10% and provide nothing but lies and distortions other than politics today. At least business pays it workers
something for their time and effort.
Now that is my 2 cents worth of understanding, what is yours. ???
george. :)
martincisneros:
--- Quote from: aqr on January 02, 2009, 10:24:03 PM ---Short answer is all that economic stuff is physical and not trying to compete with the Gospel of The Kingdom.
--- End quote ---
The economic stuff is the only thing that tries to compete with the Gospel of the Kingdom on the mass scale that it does in fighting for the attention of every believer. While they're worried about their bills, how they're going to feed their kids or send them to college, then obviously the Word has departed from before their eyes, from their ears, from their hearts, and their hands and feet aren't moving in the direction of the Word day and night while they're living hand to mouth and suspicious of preachers that are getting a bit too close to what they have in their hands.
--- Quote from: aqr on January 02, 2009, 10:24:03 PM ---The Religions of The World All teach man's way to be God and perverts all the good things from God for their own version of immortal mankind. Commerce is how we in the physical world work and live and learn even when in the control of oppressive people or government.
--- End quote ---
Again, the deceitfulness of riches. The rich prosper in the world while the righteous prosper in God. We're not supposed to add to ourselves or to take thought for our lives, but to seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and then all of these things are abundantly added to us besides because God gives us richly all things to enjoy when all fear's been cast out of our lives and we're not living in greed. A lot of people live in greed that don't have a dime 'cause their one consuming thought is how to get more rather than how to get the Word out and add to other people.
--- Quote from: aqr on January 02, 2009, 10:24:03 PM ---Ray and The Scriptures make the point that God is calling man out of Christendom in this age.
--- End quote ---
God isn't calling man out of Christendom. He's calling man out of man-made traditions that make the Word of none effect. I love Ray. Don't misunderstand me. And I probably agree more with him on most things than with most others, but on this one point, God is calling us to be salt and light and to hold forth the Word of life before a crooked and perverse generation. You can't do that detached from people 'cause then how are you going to hold forth the Word of life before someone else? In the mirror??
--- Quote from: aqr on January 02, 2009, 10:24:03 PM ---Btw if you notice Religion today is the big business, who gets 10% + 10%
+ 10% and provide nothing but lies and distortions other than politics today.
--- End quote ---
Even if religion were big business, which I seriously doubt with personally knowing how much it costs to do anything. Ray probably knows by now with the costs associated with this website that the more people you minister to, it winds up being a bottomless pit on the bills. But if religion were a big business, that of itself wouldn't invalidate it. Walmart's a big business, but it's disgusting on other terms. Not 'cause it's big. Did God make the money for the gangsters or for His children that walk with Him? However the Babylonian mentality that tries to put as many people on minimum wage as possible and then to randomly cut their hours and benefits at will, while making unreasonable demands upon them the rest of the time that stress them out, stress out their families, stress out their time with the Word of God to where most wind up falling away from the amount of time that the Word demands from every man -- now that's evil. Doesn't matter if it's a multi-quadrillion dollar business whose shareholders are only making 2% because of expenses inherent in what they're doing. Anything that forcefully deprives one of their time and attention to the Word, the Blood, their faith, and the Anointing is AntiChrist, or Anti the Anointed One and His Anointing, which removes burdens and destroys yokes.
--- Quote from: aqr on January 02, 2009, 10:24:03 PM ---At least business pays it workers something for their time and effort.
--- End quote ---
It never pays enough to anyone. It takes more than it ever gives back. God's the only One that'll start paying you what you're worth if you avoid getting offended, protect your heart with all diligence, and not stray to the right or left from the exceeding great and precious promises that you're holding before a crooked and perverse generation.
--- Quote from: aqr on January 02, 2009, 10:24:03 PM ---Now that is my 2 cents worth of understanding, what is yours. ???
--- End quote ---
I can't get into most of it and make a good faith attempt at abiding by the rules of the forum and being respectful in another person's house where Ray's ministry is concerned. But this one thing of calling the wheat and the tares Babylon is one of my very, very few peeves. Revelation says that it's the one that the Kings of the earth were consistently committing fornication with. It can't be the Kings of the Kingdom 'cause St. Paul said that if you're in fornication then you can completely forget about inheriting the Kingdom. Yes, restored ultimately in the last day, so don't misunderstand me on that since I'm a newbie to this particular forum. But Revelation is being specific about the world's kings being in fornication with it. The only thing that fits the description is the love and coveting after riches in trying to add to themselves rather than casting all of those cares upon the Lord and letting Him exalt them. God wants absolutely all of us exalted without measure by the abundance of His revelations, but He doesn't want any of us trying to exalt ourselves. He wants us revealing Christ. While we're revealing Christ, He'll reveal us. There's never a need to worry about that. This is one of the ages during which He's showing the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness towards us in Christ Jesus. But more attention is drawn to all of the different aspects of an economy in detailing what Babylon has seduced people away from the Word with, than specific rituals, traditions, ideologies, etc., in the book of Revelation.
Beloved:
Are we reading the same book? This is not talking about any economic system, God is speaking in spiritual metaphors
Over and over in the Old testament God refers to Israel and Jerusalem in feminine terms.
2Ki 23:27 And the LORD said, I will remove Judah also out of my sight, as I have removed Israel, and will cast off this city Jerusalem which I have chosen, and the house of which I said, My name shall be there
So here in revelation John is seeing the religious system as corrupted Israel and calls her by various epitaphs...
Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city[/color, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
(Rev 17:3) So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
(Rev 17:4) And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Rev 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come
. Rev 18:16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
Rev 18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
Rev 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
Rev 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
He also speaks about the religious system being corrupted
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
These were two places in the past when God directly intervened to rescue His people. He worked through men indirectly in Babylon to bring some of the people back to Jerusalem.
Rev 18:4 Then I heard another voice from Heaven, which said, "Come out of her, My people, that you may not become partakers in her sins, nor receive a share of her plagues. he is talking about coming out of bablon
2Co 6:17 Therefore, "'COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM AND SEPARATE YOURSELVES,' SAYS THE LORD, 'AND TOUCH NOTHING IMPURE; AND I WILL RECEIVE YOU, AND WILL BE A FATHER TO YOU,
Contrast this with the ressurrected church New Jerusalem a city
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Beloved
Beloved:
You said
Even if religion were big business, which I seriously doubt with personally knowing how much it costs to do anything. Ray probably knows by now with the costs associated with this website that the more people you minister to, it winds up being a bottomless pit on the bills.
Of course it is all about money and works in todays churches
God did not need a cent to do anythung that He did in the Old or New Testament...it is man and his traditions that feed off money
1Pe 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
Tit 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Ray is reaching thousands but only a few will hear obey and endure.
When God is ready for the site to stop then the funds will dry up.
(Pro 30:7) Two things have I required of thee; deny me them not before I die:
(Pro 30:8) Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:
(Pro 30:9) Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the LORD? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain.
God will provide for my need
Beloved
aqrinc:
Martinsisneros, you write:
The economic stuff is the only thing that tries to compete with the Gospel of the Kingdom on the mass scale that it does in fighting for the attention of every believer.
The economic stuff is what everyone uses not only believers, what you describe is humans being carnal not an organization.
Again, the deceitfulness of riches. The rich prosper in the world (carnal) while the righteous prosper in God. (Spiritual)
Carnal human beings being good at what they are currently good at in this world, while those made righteous by God prosper Spiritually.
God isn't calling man out of Christendom. He's calling man out of man-made traditions that make the Word of none effect.
And where else is this manmade tradition taught as doctrine than in Christendom; Pray to saints, free will, saving the world, tithing, hell, worship images.
It never pays enough to anyone. It takes more than it ever gives back. God's the only One that'll start paying you what you're worth if you avoid getting offended, protect your heart with all diligence.
Don't mix carnal physical labor for pay with Our Gifts From God. Do you or anyone want God to pay you what you are really worth now?.
I can't get into most of it and make a good faith attempt at abiding by the rules of the forum and being respectful in another person's house where Ray's ministry is concerned. But this one thing of calling the wheat and the tares Babylon is one of my very, very few peeves.
Have you taken this up with Ray, so far everything you have stated is quite different from Ray's teaching and what The Scriptures Say.
Isaiah 45:8:
Release, ye heavens, from above, and the clouds shall pour down righteousness; let the earth open [up], and let salvation and righteousness bear their fruit; let them produce [fruit] together; I the LORD have created it.
God is not calling anyone out of the Earth; He is Calling many out of Babylonian Religion disguised as Christianity.
Revelation 18:2:
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of demons, and the hold of every unclean spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
All through the Scriptures the above is equated with something that speaks of worshipping God but instead practices every form of perverse things that God calls wickedness and fornication. Contrast that with commerce and business; remember we are reading signs and metaphors or (Parables) which use one thing to explain something totally different yet being a simile of the explanation.
george. :)
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