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[Marlene]

I have been reading in Matthew about the death of christ. Here are some verses I need some help with.

Matt 27 verse 51 And, behold the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent.

Now, I have read these chapter many times. But, I have to admit I do no recall seeing verse 52 and verse 53
Verse 52 And the graves, were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Verse 53 and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. Now, this seems to be that the saints that slept had been there before his death. But, I cannot even imagine what the people who saw that thought. It latter in verse 54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earth-quake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

It is obvious they arose from the dead. But, what became of them. Can you even imagine if we lived during this time and saw an event like this.
They are called saints. I would think it was people that many knew. This just really amazes me. In all my time in Babylon I do not recall hearing that preached on. I mean they are alive so something had to become of them.

I hope someone can maybe find scripture to back this up or know how to tell me would happen to the ones who arose from there graves. We don't go to heaven before Christ.  We also await him waking us up.

In His Love,
Marlene

[cherokee]

Marlene,

Here are a couple emails with links that should help your understanding.

 :)Suzie


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,658.0.html

Dear Reynolds:  You have to learn to read more carefully. Notice it says: "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves AFTER HIS [Jesus'] resurrection..."

These were saints that had recently died, and who could be easily recognized by many, hence proving that God can not only raise His Son from the dead, but anyone He wishes.  These saints were resurrected back to mortal life (they were not "vivified" as is used in reference to life of immortality). They died again as did Lazarus and all others that were resurrected from the dead by Jesus and the apostles. And no, this this not contradict Heb. 11:39 or any other Scripture of the Bible.

God be with you,

Ray

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,86.0.html

Dear Cesar:

Those resurrected at the time of Christ's crucifixion were saints well-known in Jerusalem. Jesus had publically stated that He is the resurrection. The resurrection of these saints was proof of His statement.

These saints were resurrected physically, so that they could be seen by those who knew them and who knew that they had died. They were not given immortal bodies at that time, and hence, just like Lazarus, died again. In the resurrection to eonian life, the saints are given SPIRITUAL bodies and immortality, not physical life (I Cor.15: 44).

God be with you,

Ray

 


 
 

[Marlene]

Thanks Suzie, I did not think they would go with Christ. But, I really do not remember reading about that. But, It really makes you think if you had lived during that time and experienced what the people of that city did. That, is just so awesome. It will be a time for all of us to come. We even knowing what will happen it will still be a time we will never forget.

I don't know how people could see or hear of this and not know our Father is in control and we are nothing of ourself. Really, humbles a person.

In His Love,
Marlene

[winner08]

This is a  perfect scripture for the ones that are still in the babaloian system to twist to their own beliefs. You see they are others in heaven besides Christ. Thank God For Rays teachings, we know better.

[enigmoxical]

I have been reading in Matthew about the death of christ. Here are some verses I need some help with.

Matt 27 verse 51 And, behold the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent.

Now, I have read these chapter many times. But, I have to admit I do no recall seeing verse 52 and verse 53
Verse 52 And the graves, were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Verse 53 and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. Now, this seems to be that the saints that slept had been there before his death. But, I cannot even imagine what the people who saw that thought. It latter in verse 54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earth-quake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

It is obvious they arose from the dead. But, what became of them. Can you even imagine if we lived during this time and saw an event like this.
They are called saints. I would think it was people that many knew. This just really amazes me. In all my time in Babylon I do not recall hearing that preached on. I mean they are alive so something had to become of them.

I hope someone can maybe find scripture to back this up or know how to tell me would happen to the ones who arose from there graves. We don't go to heaven before Christ.  We also await him waking us up.

In His Love,
Marlene

Here's a link to a detailed article that examines this very issue. I don't know whether or not I agree with all of the author's conclusions, but it WILL make you think:

*****Sorry Teaching Links Not Allowed********

Check it out and let me know what you think. Very thought-provoking stuff, I will assure you.

Peace

[kweli]

Here we go again...
            

[Daddysgirl]

"It's a real shame that we have a group of "thought police" here controlling this forum. It's also a real shame that only one man's opinions are allowed."

Me thinks the real shame is when any of us grown adults would want to go into another man's house and start making our own rules or breaking existing ones. Have been almost guilty of that and now looking back... i find that to be a REAL shame !

[hillsbororiver]

Those resurrected at the time of Christ's crucifixion were saints well-known in Jerusalem. Jesus had publically stated that He is the resurrection. The resurrection of these saints was proof of His statement.

These saints were resurrected physically, so that they could be seen by those who knew them and who knew that they had died. They were not given immortal bodies at that time, and hence, just like Lazarus, died again. In the resurrection to eonian life, the saints are given SPIRITUAL bodies and immortality, not physical life (I Cor.15: 44).

God be with you,

Ray

I believe the answer provided by Ray (thanks Suzie) fits right in with what the scriptures speak of in regard to the resurrections (yes plural). As was mentioned in Ray's response about Lazarus, what became of him? What about the others who were raised back to physical (no mention of spiritual) life during the earthly ministry of Christ or by the apostles? What became of them?

Could the physical raising of those who returned to life at the resurrection of Jesus be a type/shadow of the second resurrection? They awoke not to perfection but to learn righteousness?

Peace,

Joe

[hillsbororiver]

Hi kweli & Daddysgirl,

I am not ever surprised by this anymore, the name calling, the intemperence, the disregard of rules that were agreed to before gaining membership, it has happened before and it will happen again.

This Forum has a simply stated purpose, to discuss the teachings of Ray Smith, no one has been forced to join or participate and sometimes we moderators let a few things slide that really are outside the rules (at least in my case) but have not descended into carnal passions.

No one here is stifling anyone's thoughts or believe they are entitled to be "thought police" anyone is free to join other Forums where debates are the norm, there is no reason why folks cannot be members here to discuss Ray's articles as they participate in other Forums exploring anything and everything else.

Don't be surprised to see this happen again and again.

Peace,

Joe

[cherokee]

Could the physical raising of those who returned to life at the resurrection of Jesus be a type/shadow of the second resurrection? They awoke not to perfection but to learn righteousness?

Peace,

Joe

I do believe you are on to something with these questions, Joe. It would fit with what we have learned so far through Ray. Going to go do some more digging on this.

ever learning,
Suzie

[Vangie]

Joe, I agree with Suzie about your thoughts.  Very interesting type/shadow example that leads us away from the downward carnal spiral and towards delving for higher spiritual discernment.  I look forward to more discussion on your comment.

Love in Christ,
Vangie

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Vangie,

Thank you for your response. I don't really have any more to add other than these are the two types of examples of resurrection that we have in scripture (unless of course I am missing the meaning of other symbols that may very well be there.)

There is the following verse that leads me (at this time) to believe that the type/shadow presented by the raising of Lazarus (and others) as well as those who rose from the dead at the time of Christ's resurrection;

Ecc 1:9  The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

As a side note after, my 3000 and something posts over the years it is probably time for me to listen and observe rather than bore or antagonize the vast majority of members with my observations. 

Peace,

Joe   

[cherokee]

Joe,

You may very well bore or antagonize the vast majority of members with your observations, but what about that one lost sheep(that's me) who needs to be found.
There have been many times that your observations have given me a deeper understanding.
I pray you will continue to post them.

Peace,
Suzie

[Ninny]

Joe,
If you would please only take short breaks if you must listen and observe more. I always enjoy your posts. If people are bored or antagonized by what you have to say, are they FORCED to read your posts? Noooo let them overlook your posting!   I always enjoy what the moderators have to say. (Even when you are gently reminding us about the rules!) I love it when you guys slip in with a comment or a joke. And why are we on THIS forum? To talk about what we have learned at BT, right? I guess some people forget how lonely it is out here when you have left the church and you have not many people to talk to about what Ray teaches. So if people want to come in here and start trying to change the rules then maybe they should find a forum that is open to that sort of thing. If people find that they just can't agree with what's on this site they need to slip gently out without being ugly!

 I pray that we will always be able to meet here and share! Sometimes some of us here get a little impassioned about what we believe and know, we come off a little overbearing and smug. We should all work on being as kind as possible while still upholding the truth of the scriptures. I'm not saying that we ALL do that. I have written my reply to things and when I previewed it, deleted it because it sounded like I was condemning instead of lifting up...that's what we all should do, it's like thinking before you speak/write!
Well, that's all I have to say about that (for now!)
Love to all!
Kathy

[mharrell08]

Joe,
If you would please only take short breaks if you must listen and observe more. I always enjoy your posts. If people are bored or antagonized by what you have to say, are they FORCED to read your posts? Noooo let them overlook your posting!   I always enjoy what the moderators have to say. (Even when you are gently reminding us about the rules!) I love it when you guys slip in with a comment or a joke. And why are we on THIS forum? To talk about what we have learned at BT, right? I guess some people forget how lonely it is out here when you have left the church and you have not many people to talk to about what Ray teaches. So if people want to come in here and start trying to change the rules then maybe they should find a forum that is open to that sort of thing. If people find that they just can't agree with what's on this site they need to slip gently out without being ugly!

 I pray that we will always be able to meet here and share! Sometimes some of us here get a little impassioned about what we believe and know, we come off a little overbearing and smug. We should all work on being as kind as possible while still upholding the truth of the scriptures. I'm not saying that we ALL do that. I have written my reply to things and when I previewed it, deleted it because it sounded like I was condemning instead of lifting up...that's what we all should do, it's like thinking before you speak/write!
Well, that's all I have to say about that (for now!)
Love to all!
Kathy

Pearls of wisdom throughout this post Kathy...thank you


Marques

[hillsbororiver]

Thanks Suzie and Kathy,

Every now and then I glance over and look at the number of posts I have racked up    and I say to myself; Whoa! Time to slow down boy, listen more, speak less.

Appreciate the kind words though!

Peace,

Joe 

[CEO]

Hi

I don't understand why those resurrected at that time were called saints.  I think of a saint as a saved sinner.  Salvation should never be in the past tense as we are all in the process of being saved.  Salvation entails indwelling of the holy spirit and love of the truth.  Jesus had not released the holy spirit yet, had He?

Have you heard this one-those in that resurrection were the patriarchs, they lived long enough for the spirit to come and will be in the resurrection of the just?

Askseeknock
Charles

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Charles,

Good question.

I tend to look at Matthew 27:52 with this verse in mind;

Isa 46:10  Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand and I will do all my pleasure:

All men will eventually be "saints" sanctified in Christ.

God sees the ultimate condition of all His children as they will be as well as how they are presently. I believe this reference to those who were raised as saints could just as well been written as "called."

Saints are nothing more than believers, the called and eventually chosen to be Sons and Daughters of the Most High. The beautiful thing is that everyone will eventually go through this process!

Rom 1:7  To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Co 1:2  Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

You know all references to "saints" are not exactly flattering..... 

Job 15:15  Behold, he putteth no trust in his saints; yea, the heavens are not clean in his sight.

Peace,

Joe