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[smeacham]

...snip...
My cousin calls himself a Root Hebrew Christian... and I have no clue what that means either.
...snip...

Some Christians desire to understand the Bible as they believe a Hebrew would.  This means as a Middle Easterner, rather than as a Westerner.  One way that this manifests is a belief in BIBLICAL PATRIARCHY, which is probably necessary to understand before BIBLICAL POLYGAMY.  If you Google those two terms, you'll find out more, if you want to understand.  Hope this helps...

For the record, I do not ascribe to or carry either of these labels.

God Bless You, Jacob

[legoman]

Kat & George (aqr),

Thanks for the scriptures.  I have no doubt that God is sovereign, and I agree all these scriptures state as much, and by implication make God responsible.  Its just that some people don't see it that way   You know the usual line "you decided to sin so you are responsible for it while I chose God and am responsible for my own salvation".  I've even seen people fully admit that the complete work of salvation is finished and is only of God - yet still insist you must accept Christ of your own free will to be saved!  Hm, I thought you just said the work of salvation was finished and ONLY OF GOD!  Sigh...

Ezekiel 28:2:
"Son of man, tell the ruler of Tyre, 'This is what the Almighty LORD says: In your arrogance you say, "I'm a god. I sit on God's throne in the sea." But you're only human and not a god, although you think you are a god.


This is a really good one George, I don't think I fully realized the implications of it before.  This scripture is not just for the king of Tyre, its for everyone!  We all sit on God's throne claiming we are "god" with our free will beliefs.  Also notice the mention of "God's throne in the sea"  This would be the "sea of humanity", no?  ie. the sea in revelations.

Isaiah 14:24:
The LORD of the hosts has sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, [so] shall it stand:


That is another good verse that complements Isa 46:10, Isa 55:11, and Eph 1&2.

I find it interesting how different people find different verses that all show the same thing, but help to give additional clarification!  God is working through us all so we can learn and understand.

Cheers,
Kevin

[aqrinc]

Kevin,

Every day i find more Treasure in The Scriptures, just imagine if All the things Jesus Said and Did
were written. According to the Scriptures the world could contain it. Hope you have enough weapons
now for this part of the continuing Spiritual Warfare.

george.

[geokuhns]

I think I have all the dots connected now. I went back and found the audio tape (I’m amazed I found it so quickly) where Ray said that God does not “make” man sin. It is the August 2008 Bible Study titled “Free Will”,
Part 1. If you fast forward to the 16 minute mark you will hear Ray say that God does not “make” men sin. He references James 1:13-15 that says God does not tempt anyone and one is tempted and enticed by his own lust. Ray says that God does not have to “make” man sin because man is a sinning machine.

The key words involved in this discussion is “make” and “cause.” God does not “make” us sin but “causes” us to sin and there is a difference. Here is how Webster defines these two words.

Make - To compel.
Cause - Something that brings about a result.

God does not compel us to sin but He does bring about or causes sin in order to “bring about” the result which is qualified sons of God as we learn that sin brings pain, suffering and death. 

[aqrinc]

Bingo George Kuhns,

It usually takes several times going over a Revelation before we even start to (get it).
I learned when still a child to take snapshots of the whole page in my mind at the first
reading. Then when i read again my mind is correlating past and current information to
better my understanding. Now think when The Spirit Of God opens up that little trickle
of understanding that we first have with the carnal mind into a Torrent of Truth.

Waiting on The Lord to Teach us is hard with the clamor for our attention from everyside.
But when we wait He Will Teach and Guide us into All Truth. (He Leads me in The Paths Of
Righteousness For His Name's Sake.)

Psalm 23:3
He restores my soul: he leads me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

Psalms 19:7:
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalms 31:3:
Because, my mountain crag and my stronghold, thou art, Therefore, for the sake of thine own Name, wilt thou lead me and guide me?

george.

[Sorin]

My mother became a baptized church-goer several years ago.

Ah jeez! I have one of those mothers myself. Except she hasn't been to church in awhile due to health issues and lack of transportation; she still goes to like prayer meetings and stuff though because they have a location near her place of residence.

She watches however all that crap on TBN; and it makes me want to vomit. I mean, Hinn, Hagee. Hagee is such a Zionist that he believes that the Jews don't even have to believe in Christ; they are that special. Moving on...


 

I actually get a kick out of telling her that I've broken all ten of the Ten Commandments.  She thinks I'm absolutely crazy, anyway, about everything I believe and do now.  She can't decide if I'm Jewish or Atheist...it just doesn't compute.

LOL! 

That actually made me chuckle.

1. I've worshiped other gods, both natural and supernatural
2. I've made idols, both in my heart and with consumer goods
3. I've misused God's name, both by abusing it in speech and by imagining Him to be something other than who He really is
4. I've broken the Sabbath, both under the Law and under the Law of the Spirit
5. I've failed to honor my parents (she believes me on this one!)
6. I've killed, by hating others
7. I've committed adultery, by looking more than once
8. I've stolen
9. I've lied
10. I've coveted

Cheers,
Steve

I've broken all those and then some. Not bragging; just saying.

[Sorin]

How many emails have I gotten just like that.  ‘Oh your saying, so Hitler is going to be up in heaven with us?’  ‘Oh really, nice Ray, and I suppose Sadam Hussin will be having tea with us and taking the last supper with us.’  You know they get real sarcastic like that.  Why?  Because they want to be better.  They want to be better than Hitler, they want to be able to always think that Hitler made choices to do bad and he’s going to suffer for all eternity for it.  And they say, ‘I on the other hand, I choose Christ and I’m going to be saved.’  So people feel this way.

I'd rather be up in heaven with Adolf Hitler than with any of those haters any day. They think they are somehow better by wishing eternal hell upon not only Hitler, but everybody that's not Christian and they think they can even hold a candle to Adolf?

Torturing people with fire for all eternity is infinitely worse than what your most anti Hitler story, movie, book, person can ever say that Hitler did.

[Sorin]

As for God causing everything it's still a topic which I am still having trouble with, to be frank. I mean, if that is so; then that means my life could not have been, and could not be any different then what it has been, what it is, and what it will be and nothing I can do will change that because while I do make my own choices there is a causation which causes me to choose accordingly.

It also really makes you seem so very weak - when you can't even control your own life, your own destiny, and so forth. So it's really something I'm still contemplating and trying to make sense out of amongst other things.

So basically what happened to John Walsh's son was inevitable? And yes, I understand that no one is saying God made the sick perv rape and decapitate the kid, he did that out of his own heart and lusts; but it was inevitable nonetheless. And if that's the case then our whole life is planned out for us; even when and how we die in that it can not be any other way.

I don't know about you but if that's true - that just makes me feel really powerless.

What are your thoughts on this?

[smeacham]

It makes me feel powerless too, but:

2 Corinthians 12:9 - And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

[aqrinc]

Well Sorin,

At least you come to the point where understanding starts, we really are powerless to control anything.
These quotes from our Lord Jesus Christ should answer your questions.

John 5:19:
Then answered Jesus and said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, The Son can do nothing of himself,
but what he sees the Father do: for what things soever he does, these also does the Son likewise.

John 5:30:
I can of my own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not my
own will, but the will of the Father which has sent me.

george.

[Ninny]

Amen to that, Sorin! Hey if God can save US (Me) then why shouldn't he be able to save anyone? Not one of us is any better than the next guy, our sins may be different, but God is no respecter of persons, right?
Just to think that SIN is what God hates. Pride, hate, selfishness, greed...etc. it's all sin. sin is sin.
I am guilty of sin, and so is everyone on this planet. We are all the same, except that some of us are being led into more truth, but sin is our nature until GOD changes things! When I hear anyone say "You are going to hell" It makes me want to throw up!
Sorin, I can't answer that question about feeling powerless..BUT I know that God is in control and God is all powerful, what his purposes are we don't know. Why things happen the way they do, we don't know. We just trust that God is in control. That is the only thing that can keep you grounded.
Kathy

[rk12201960]

Hi Sorin.
long time bro....

To be humble is a gift grom God thus it has to be learned...
To feel powerless is a humble feeling... no?. give thanks that God is teaching you now...

Hang in there bro.

Peace and understanding.
Randy
 

[Kat]

Hi Sorin,

then that means my life could not have been, and could not be any different then what it has been, what it is, and what it will be and nothing I can do will change that because while I do make my own choices there is a causation which causes me to choose accordingly.

What you stated is the sovereignty of God.  With this understanding comes understanding the fear of God, but I don't think of it so much as 'fear' but respect.

Luke 12:4  "And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
v. 5  But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!
v. 6  "Are not five sparrows sold for two copper coins? And not one of them is forgotten before God.
v. 7  But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

Psa 111:10  The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom;
       A good understanding have all those who do His commandments.
       His praise endures forever.

We all are powerless indeed and the whole world is in the dark about this truth, but now you know who controls all things and where all the power comes from.  This knowledge gives you a whole new perspective.  Hopefully you really will desire to know Him that has brought you into existence and seek to get your thinking in line with His will.

Luke 12:22  Then He said to His disciples, "Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; nor about the body, what you will put on.
v. 23  Life is more than food, and the body is more than clothing.
v. 24  Consider the ravens, for they neither sow nor reap, which have neither storehouse nor barn; and God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than the birds?
v. 25  And which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature?
v. 26  If you then are not able to do the least, why are you anxious for the rest?
v. 27  Consider the lilies, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; and yet I say to you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
v. 28  If then God so clothes the grass, which today is in the field and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, how much more will He clothe you, O you of little faith?
v. 29  "And do not seek what you should eat or what you should drink, nor have an anxious mind.
v. 30  For all these things the nations of the world seek after, and your Father knows that you need these things.
v. 31  But seek the kingdom of God, and all these things shall be added to you.
v. 32  "Do not fear, little flock, for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
v. 33  Sell what you have and give alms; provide yourselves money bags which do not grow old, a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches nor moth destroys.
v. 34  For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

When you accept God's sovereignty and truly turn everything over to Him, you will have real peace.

Php 4:4  Rejoice in the Lord always. Again I will say, rejoice!
v. 5  Let your gentleness be known to all men. The Lord is at hand.
v. 6  Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God;
v. 7  and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Just trying to help by sharing what His sovereignty means to me 

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi George K

You say :

2) God is responsible for everything that has or will happen in this world and that is why He sent His Son to pay the price for forgiveness of sin.

God is responsible for EVERYTHING.  God sent His Son to die because God the Father can not die. He gave up His Son to show us His Love  

1 John 3 : 9 By THIS (Christ coming into the world to die) the Love of God was revealed in us, because His Son, the Only-begotten, God has sent into the world that we might live through Him.

We live through Him by God conforming us into His image. This is God's work and power in us that brings us into the experience of learning to discern and know exactly what is good and what is bad/evil. This is the Plan and Purpose of God for all of us.

Gen 3 : 22 ....Behold! The man has become as one of Us, to know good and evil.....

We all know that non are in the image of God yet except for His perfect spotless Lamb, Jesus Christ The world is aching for the manifestation of the Sons and Daughters of God and that is what all the misery, pain and suffering, evil, deception, and lies are all about.

Light has to come OUT of Darkness. It will be, because God will make it so. This is our Hope.

Arc

[Ricky]

Hello all, I have had a big beef with this truth  of not having free will. For the last several months I have tried to solve this beef by pretending (to myself only) that I do have free will. I know I don't have it , but pretending to myself I do have it, helps me do better for God because I know the difference between right and wrong now, what is right in life for God, or maybe the way He would like me to be. Does this make any sense at all.
 Bless you all.        Ricky

[Akira329]

Hello all, I have had a big beef with this truth  of not having free will. For the last several months I have tried to solve this beef by pretending (to myself only) that I do have free will. I know I don't have it , but pretending to myself I do have it, WHAT? helps me do better for God because I know the difference between right and wrong now,Pro 14:12  There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. what is right in life for God, or maybe the way He would like me to be. Does this make any sense at all.
 Bless you all.        Ricky

Sounds like a lot of double talk Ricky.
You should stop pretending and accept the fact that your not in control.
This seems to be a hard one for a lot of people.
Read Ray's papers on the Myth of Free Will and put your mind at ease.
Meditate on it for a while.

Antaiwan

[Ricky]

Antaiwan, I am sorry that you have completly missed what I have said.

[Kat]

Hi Ricky,

By your "pretending" is that like saying to God, I know You are in control, but I want to be?  Do you think God would approve of that additude?  Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying too.  For me I am very happy knowing that a perfect and wise Father is totally in charge.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Akira329]

Antaiwan, I am sorry that you have completly missed what I have said.

Maybe I am misunderstanding, please clarify what you mean when you say "pretending"

Pretending-
1: to give a false appearance of being, possessing, or performing
2: to make believe : feign b: to claim, represent, or assert falsely

Explain how lying to yourself helps better your relationship with God?

Also you did ask if it made any sense, obvious to you, my statement didn't. Help me to understand so we can get through this.

Antaiwan

[Marlene]

Ricky, I had been deceived for years. Knowing the truth has set me free. I remember it starting when I was a small child. I would tell a white lie. I would go repent and then what would I do. I would do it all over. I can remember asking God why do I continue to sin if you forgive me. He was not ready to give me the truth. I was too young. He wanted me to experience good and bad. We are hear to be taught lessons. Yes, he wants us to hate sin.

Why, after having the truth would you want to take the job of saving yourself back on. I tried that for years and it never worked.  Before, I came in here I had done something that I hated myself for.  I use to look at what I called the good things I did . That never humbles a person that puffs us up. Especially, when we are in Babylon. Well, let me tell you. That, last failure was a big one. Was, I ever humbled. I knew, I was wanting to die, because I could not stand the thought that I was a big hypocrite going to church satisfied with some victory I had, but not owning up to the fact that I could not handle anything. Well, I was thinking if there is a Hell I am in it. Little did I know, God was working with me then. I kept asking for forgiveness, but never felt it. Right before he delieved me the scripture that he could provide a way out of all temptaion came to my mind.  He was working on me then.  I had his spirit living in me then cause he delievered me from it.  Then he delivered me from my believe in Hell. He set me free with truth.

You try to do it yourself. Why, would that work. We have to wait on the Lord , rest in him. We can't do a thing. I believe, that you need to have patience with God he led you to these truths. So, now he wants you to live in spirit and truth. We can't do a thing for this free gift. I fear and tremble because I know I can't do it. Its all up to him.

Hope this helps some. This feeling like you have to pretend to do it, is not from God. I tried to tell myself , that I lived in Africa and there is no food that I could get to after so long.  Now, I just trust God to help me with it. If, I cant use something I like to indulge in, why put it there for temptation. Sad part is most of my medications make you hungry.  But, we all have things we want gone and now. But, we are here to learn patience and longsuffering, Love and many things. God will take them away. We hate them and that means alot to God. He is going to use the same way with the ones in the Second resurrection. Understanding Truths of God are a great blessing. I just pray to God may I never forget what you brought me from!

In His Love,
Marlene