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Author Topic: Census of Luke 2:2  (Read 6025 times)

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deftarchangel

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Census of Luke 2:2
« on: January 07, 2009, 01:16:03 PM »

While taking a course in Classic Civilizations (Greek and Roman Empires) over the summer, the course reviewed the influence the Christians had during the end of the Roman Empire.  One thing the professor pointed out was the census mentioned in Luke 2:2:

"This was the first census that took place while Quirinius was governor of Syria."

The professor noted that Luke 2:2 was in error, since archaeology records have proven that Quirinius was not governor of Syria when a census would have taken place around the time of Jesus’ birth (anywhere from 8 – 6 B.C.), but in fact was listed as governor close to fifteen years later when history records show him present during a census around 6 A.D..   ???  Why Luke stated that Quirinius was governor of Syria at around the time of Jesus’ birth, when he in fact wasn’t, has been a major crux for Biblical scholars to explain for a long time.  I’ve read various arguments defending the text, stating that the translations of the word “first” should perhaps be rendered “before,” or something to that effect, or that Luke was thinking about Quirinius as a governor when he wrote his account, even though Quirinius, at the time of Christ's birth, was an official of a lower ranking.  There are multiple theories, with no one agreeing on any one plausible explanation.  I have yet to find an argument that settles this little conondrum once and for all, and am wondering if anyone out there has come up (or has come across) an argument that sufficiently explains this apparent “error.”  (If you did, you'd be my hero!   :D

Thanks for your time.

Rob ^i^       
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Craig

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Re: Census of Luke 2:2
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2009, 01:50:49 PM »

Rob,

I don't have an answer, why do you say Christ birth was 8-6 bc?  What about 1 AD?  I've even heard speculation of 30-25 bc. The fact is, as far as I can fathom, nobody knows the exact year of Christ's birth.  I think the AD calendar was invented over 500 years after Christ, and then estimated backwards (I would think that most likely an estimation could be off several years).

I guess if Luke say's the governor was Quirinius then that is a fact.  Can we be 100% sure when he was governor though?  I don't know.

Craig
« Last Edit: January 07, 2009, 02:57:40 PM by Craig »
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Census of Luke 2:2
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2009, 02:16:19 PM »

Rob,

I don't have an answer, why do you say Christ birth was 8-6 bc?  What about 1 AD?  I've even head speculation of 30-25 bc. The fact is, as far as I can fathom, nobody knows the exact year of Christ's birth.  I think the AD calendar was invented over 500 years after Christ, and then estimated backwards (I would think that most likely an estimation, and could be off several years).

I guess if Luke say's the governor was Quirinius then that is a fact.  Can we be 100% sure when he was governor though?  I don't know.

Craig

Amen Craig. God's word above man's!
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sansmile

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Re: Census of Luke 2:2
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2009, 02:27:33 PM »

Hi Rob,
I googled the question you asked and found this:
And as for Quirinius being the governor of Syria during this census, it is worth noting that the Bible never calls him the governor, at least the New King James Version doesn't. It says he was governing in Syria. And we know that Quirinius was indeed governing in some capacity in this region at this time. 
       Records also indicate that Quirinius was no minor figure in Roman politics. His name is mentioned in Res Gestae - The Deeds of Augustus by Augustus placing him as consul as early as 12 B.C.
      The Roman historian Tacitus also mentions that Quirinius was appointed by Augustus to be an advisor to his young son Caius Caesar in Armenia well before the census of 6 A.D. - Caius was sent to administer Syria in 1 A.D. and was wounded in nearby Armenia in 3 A.D.  Evidently, Augustus wanted someone who was experienced in previously administering the region to advise his son. Who better then Quirinius?
      The first century historian Josephus also mentions that Quirinius became governor later on in 6 A.D.:  He wrote:                 
       "Quirinius, a Roman senator who had gone through other magistracies, and had passed through them all until he had become consul, was appointed governor of Syria by Caesar and was given the task of assessing property there and in Judea."   
      So who was in charge as the assessor of property in Judea during the first census?  Just as the bible had said all along, Quirinius.
                   
THE  WORDS  OF  THE  PROPHET  ISAIAH 
CAME  TRUE  DURING  THE  FIRST  CENSUS
                   
      "And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS, for He will save His people from their sins." 
       So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: 
       "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which is translated, "GOD with us."                 Matthew 1:21-23




And also found this:
Was Quirinius a governor on a previous occasion?
Another way of resolving the problem is that Lk 2:2, mentions that the Nativity census is the 'first census'. He might be suggesting that there might have been more than one census of which this was the first. It is known that when Quirinius became legate in AD 6 he did order a census for taxation and that this caused an uprising in Judea. Luke himself mentions this in his second book, The Acts of the Apostles. (Acts 5:37 ) Luke makes no attempt to link this census with what he describes as the 'first census' in his gospel account. This has caused some people to wonder if Quirinius might have been a governor of some sorts in this area before. He might then have held a census which could have been described as his 'first census' to distinguish it from this infamous taxation census which happened much later.
Dio Cassius, a Roman writer mentions there were taxes levied during this decade. This involved going back to one's home town to work out what had been left you as an inheritance, and then taxes were demanded based on its value . However, Dio Cassius does not help us with the dates of these taxes.
It has also been suggested that when Quirinius was in charge of subduing the Homanadensians from 10 BC to 7 BC Quirinius could have assumed military governorship of the surrounding provinces including Syria. The argument says that he could have secured an oath of loyalty via a census at any time during 10 BC and AD 3. It is suggested that this census prompted Joseph to go to Bethlehem.

If we assume that we have an error here and it should be 'Saturnius', then that gives us dates between 8 & 6 BC. If we assume a previous 'governorship' and census then it could be any time between 10 BC and 3 AD.

Dont know if this helps, what i DO know  is God doesnt lie  :)

God Bless Sandie
 
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WhoAmI

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Re: Census of Luke 2:2
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2009, 02:35:55 PM »

Rob,

I don't have an answer, why do you say Christ birth was 8-6 bc?  What about 1 AD?  I've even head speculation of 30-25 bc. The fact is, as far as I can fathom, nobody knows the exact year of Christ's birth.  I think the AD calendar was invented over 500 years after Christ, and then estimated backwards (I would think that most likely an estimation, and could be off several years).

I guess if Luke say's the governor was Quirinius then that is a fact.  Can we be 100% sure when he was governor though?  I don't know.

Craig

Amen Craig. God's word above man's!
[/quote


But what was written? God's or man's? After being duped for so many years by errors, lies and traditions I don't take the physical written (ink and paper) to be God's Word.

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OBrenda

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Re: Census of Luke 2:2
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2009, 02:55:29 PM »

Great info Sandie!
 :)
Brenda
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sansmile

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Re: Census of Luke 2:2
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2009, 03:16:41 PM »

Thank God for google

ROFL     ;D
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deftarchangel

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Re: Census of Luke 2:2
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2009, 06:43:57 PM »

Thanks Sandie,

That's some great info.  That does make a world of difference, saying that Quirinius was "governing" rather than being a "governor."  I googled my question too before I came on here, and I didn't come across that answer (I suppose you're more thorough and patient with google than I am  ;D). 

Just put on a red cape and a blue shirt with an "S" on it, and you'll definitely be my hero!   :D

Kind regards,

Rob ^i^
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sansmile

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Re: Census of Luke 2:2
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2009, 06:07:43 PM »

LOL Rob,

It came up first for me. when i google.................aint God awesome xx

Sandie
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