It "aint" about feelings...

[jg]

Hiya all!

I've been looking at something lately and thought I might post it here to get more input from whoever might have more on the subject.  I know many of you are way beyond me in spiritual growth, so I welcome the insight of those who might have more experience and knowledge in the Word of God. 

I'm talking about "feelings", and how sometimes we (me) don't "feel" very spiritual. 

I think I'll start with this verse;

Luk 8:14  And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

I see myself fighting against the cares of this life sometimes, i.e. trying to make ends meet. 
It also occured to me that I've been lusting after money, (although I have none) just like a rich man (who has plenty).  LOL, I'm just as guilty of allowing money to butt into my walk with God as a rich man who lusts for more of it.  I had to repent on that one. 

I've been fighting to be fertile ground.  By "fighting" I mean, I'm trying to keep from allowing these "cares and riches and pleasures of life" from stealing the Word of God which He has so graceously given to me lately here on Ray's website. 

Sometimes I just don't feel very spiritual.  But I also know that this isn't about having a certain "feeling" all the time.  I know God will never leave me nor forsake me, so I hold onto that, knowing that whether I feel spiritual or not, He is IN me, causing His will to be done in me! Praise God!

Eph 6:12 for it is not ours to wrestle with blood and flesh, but with the sovereignties, with the authorities, with the world-mights of this darkness, with the spiritual forces of wickedness among the celestials."

I like this verse too, it tells me where the real problems come from.

I guess I need to learn balance.  Maybe you have some scripture to share, or maybe you see something else going on.  I look forward to your insight.

Thanks in advance.

Joe









Psa 27:6 Even now my head is being raised high over my enemies round about me, And I will sacrifice in His tent sacrifices with shouts of joy. I will sing and make melody to Yahweh."

[mharrell08]

Hiya all!

I've been looking at something lately and thought I might post it here to get more input from whoever might have more on the subject.  I know many of you are way beyond me in spiritual growth, so I welcome the insight of those who might have more experience and knowledge in the Word of God. 

I'm talking about "feelings", and how sometimes we (me) don't "feel" very spiritual. 

I think I'll start with this verse;

Luk 8:14  And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

I see myself fighting against the cares of this life sometimes, i.e. trying to make ends meet. 
It also occured to me that I've been lusting after money, (although I have none) just like a rich man (who has plenty).  LOL, I'm just as guilty of allowing money to butt into my walk with God as a rich man who lusts for more of it.  I had to repent on that one. 

I've been fighting to be fertile ground.  By "fighting" I mean, I'm trying to keep from allowing these "cares and riches and pleasures of life" from stealing the Word of God which He has so graceously given to me lately here on Ray's website. 

Sometimes I just don't feel very spiritual.  But I also know that this isn't about having a certain "feeling" all the time.  I know God will never leave me nor forsake me, so I hold onto that, knowing that whether I feel spiritual or not, He is IN me, causing His will to be done in me! Praise God!

Eph 6:12 for it is not ours to wrestle with blood and flesh, but with the sovereignties, with the authorities, with the world-mights of this darkness, with the spiritual forces of wickedness among the celestials."

I like this verse too, it tells me where the real problems come from.

I guess I need to learn balance.  Maybe you have some scripture to share, or maybe you see something else going on.  I look forward to your insight.

Thanks in advance.

Joe

Psa 27:6 Even now my head is being raised high over my enemies round about me, And I will sacrifice in His tent sacrifices with shouts of joy. I will sing and make melody to Yahweh."

Hello Joe,

I remember this one line from one of Ray's email replies to a reader and think if may help (I marked in bold):

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7618.0.html

Dear Reader: Quite to the contrary. Many have left their initial belief and acceptance of God and Jesus and have gone back into the world with a spiritually-minded vengeance!  Thankfully, God recalls some out of that condition, as He has done with you. All we who have "left our First Love" have similar feelings about how stupid, and selfish, and carnal we became.  But it is good to feel guilt and shame. These emotions help to continuously keep us from committing the same sins or to the same degree.  We have to "COME OUT"  of Babylon, and then we need to "STAY OUT."  And the staying out is often as difficult as the coming out. The more we spiritually grow and understand, the more we see our shortcomings.  It is good that God does not show us all of our sins all at once--it would be so over-powering and shameful, that we would have trouble facing another day.  Glad that you have seen the Light.
God be with you,
Ray


Just you thinking about this and wanting to change is a sign that Christ is working in you towards repentance. Those that Christ is not working in have no time to think whether or not they are lusting after money...they're too busy lusting after money. 

Rom 2:4  ...the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance

2 Cor 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death

Jer 31:33  ...After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts [spiritual conversion; repentance]; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Luke 5:33  I [Jesus] came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

2 Pet 3:9  The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Looks as if the Lord is beginning a marvelous work in you...[...I [The Lord] will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder (Isa 29:14)...I will work a work in your days which ye will not believe, though it be told you (Hab 1:5)]


Hope this helps,

Marques

[Kat]

Hi Joe,

I've been fighting to be fertile ground.  By "fighting" I mean, I'm trying to keep from allowing these "cares and riches and pleasures of life" from stealing the Word of God which He has so graceously given to me lately here on Ray's website.

Yes we do have to come to an understanding as to what is more important to us.  Think about what is on your mind and in your thoughts most of the time?  If we consider what we spend most of our time dwelling on, then we can know where our heart is.

Mat 6:19 "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal;
v. 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.
v. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

I'm talking about "feelings", and how sometimes we (me) don't "feel" very spiritual.

To 'feel' spiritual I believe God has to be the top priority, whether it be in study or when we are not able to, are we meditating on Him and His truth?  Even when we must go about the necessary things we do in this world, cares of this world should not take over our minds and be all consumming.

Deu 6:5 You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.
v. 6 "And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart.
v. 7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up.
v. 8 You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
v. 9 You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
v. 10 "So it shall be, when the LORD your God brings you into the land of which He swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give you large and beautiful cities which you did not build,
v. 11 houses full of all good things, which you did not fill, hewn-out wells which you did not dig, vineyards and olive trees which you did not plant--when you have eaten and are full-- v. 12 [then] beware, lest you forget the LORD who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[smeacham]

This is just my experience, but when I "feel spiritual" it's usually a sign that I don't "feel humble."  I'd rather feel humble any day, because the reward is in heaven.  I suspect that the reward for feeling spiritual is it's own reward.

[aqrinc]

Hi Marques, Kat, Steve,

Thanks for the Scriptures and reminders, i agree in all points.

Hi (jg) aka joe,

I have been where you are many times. In fact there are times it gets so lonely
everything seems to be pressing me down. Early on i had the same questions you
ask and had no one (physically) to help or answer with Scriptural support. So left
to myself i would start thinking (is there really a God). That i am here today typing
is Testimony to the Fact (Yes He Is And He Cares) because in spite of my doubts
and many mistakes and grevious sins; God Still Dragged me here.

John 6:44:
No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:65:
And he said, Therefore said I to you, that no man can come to me, except it were given to him of my Father.

John 10:29:
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I Corinthians 10:24:
Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.

george.

[Patrick]

2Pe 3:17  Ye therefore, beloved, knowing these things beforehand, beware lest, being carried away with the error of the wicked, ye fall from your own stedfastness.

2Pe 3:18  But grow in the grace and in knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and for ever. Amen.

"God is in total control of our destiny. God determines which trails we will go through; how severe they will be; and when we might have victory over them. We can "try" according to our own ability to overcome, but for the most part, we are too weak. We can keep ourselves from doing certain things, but not others.
So what is one to do? PRAY!
Yes, I know you've done that many times, but you never quit. God knows our state. It seems logical to think that if God wants us not to sin, and if we deeply desire NOT TO SIN, then surely He would be quick to grant such a wish. But this is not the case.
There may be numerous reasons for this:
It builds patience; we feel guilty and guilt can be a good thing as we eventually shame ourselves into obedience; we not only need to desire to stop whatever we know is sin, but we need to come to hate that sin, and the more we are plagued by it, the more we tend to hate it; our sin proves to us in undeniable terms that we really are powerless over our own behavior; it drives us to throw ourselves on God's mercy.

Sometimes we can come to believe that God has given up on us, or maybe we aren't even being called by God to be an overcomer of sin. This is not true. God is calling you alright-your request for spiritual help is proof of this. There is not, however, a secret formula for overcoming sin of any kind.

We do not conquer all our sins just because we desire to conquer them, but we are to "grow" toward that goal. If you recall from my LOF series, "grace" is used as a verb in that it "teaches" us by life experiences how to live a godly life in this wicked world. Grace is not just an act of undeserved mercy by God, but it (grace) is also His way of teaching us through what most of us know as "the school of hard knocks."

We never become sinless, but we do reach the place that Paul stated that sin no longer has "dominion over us" (Rom. 6:14).

I pray this helps you and others; it sure has helped me with many of my struggles.

[Beloved]

you said

I see myself fighting against the cares of this life sometimes, i.e. trying to make ends meet. 
It also occured to me that I've been lusting after money, (although I have none) just like a rich man (who has plenty).  LOL, I'm just as guilty of allowing money to butt into my walk with God as a rich man who lusts for more of it.  I had to repent on that one.


(Pro 30:7)  Two things, have I asked of thee, withhold them not from me, ere yet I die:

(Pro 30:  Vanity and falsehood, remove far from me, Neither poverty nor riches, give me, Feed me with the food appointed me:

(Pro 30:9)  Lest I be full, and deny, and say-Who is Yahweh? or lest I be impoverished and steal, and do violence to the Name of my God.

beloved

[charrie]

Hi Marques, Kat, Steve,

Thanks for the Scriptures and reminders, i agree in all points.

Hi (jg) aka joe,

I have been where you are many times. In fact there are times it gets so lonely
everything seems to be pressing me down. Early on i had the same questions you
ask and had no one (physically) to help or answer with Scriptural support. So left
to myself i would start thinking (is there really a God). That i am here today typing
is Testimony to the Fact (Yes He Is And He Cares) because in spite of my doubts
and many mistakes and grevious sins; God Still Dragged me here.

John 6:44:
No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:65:
And he said, Therefore said I to you, that no man can come to me, except it were given to him of my Father.

John 10:29:
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I Corinthians 10:24:
Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.

george.

George

Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.

LOL

I know you meant well being, George, but it sounds funny the way you put it

Charrie

[aqrinc]

Hi Charrie,

That is the Scripture and It is perfectly stated.

I Corinthians 10:24:
Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.

Let no man seek his own (wealth), but rather be the instrument for another (many) to gain that wealth.

Since this is Spiritualy understood in total context of 1st Corinthians:10 read it again. I have read this
verse many times before and thought exactly like you do now, until a few minutes before the post you
quoted from. It is very much in keeping with Edifying the brethren by our words and deeds rather than
seek gain for ourselves.

george.

[cjwood]

2Pe 3:17  Ye therefore, beloved, knowing these things beforehand, beware lest, being carried away with the error of the wicked, ye fall from your own stedfastness.

2Pe 3:18  But grow in the grace and in knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and for ever. Amen.

"God is in total control of our destiny. God determines which trails we will go through; how severe they will be; and when we might have victory over them. We can "try" according to our own ability to overcome, but for the most part, we are too weak. We can keep ourselves from doing certain things, but not others.
So what is one to do? PRAY!
Yes, I know you've done that many times, but you never quit. God knows our state. It seems logical to think that if God wants us not to sin, and if we deeply desire NOT TO SIN, then surely He would be quick to grant such a wish. But this is not the case.
There may be numerous reasons for this:
It builds patience; we feel guilty and guilt can be a good thing as we eventually shame ourselves into obedience; we not only need to desire to stop whatever we know is sin, but we need to come to hate that sin, and the more we are plagued by it, the more we tend to hate it; our sin proves to us in undeniable terms that we really are powerless over our own behavior; it drives us to throw ourselves on God's mercy.

Sometimes we can come to believe that God has given up on us, or maybe we aren't even being called by God to be an overcomer of sin. This is not true. God is calling you alright-your request for spiritual help is proof of this. There is not, however, a secret formula for overcoming sin of any kind.

We do not conquer all our sins just because we desire to conquer them, but we are to "grow" toward that goal. If you recall from my LOF series, "grace" is used as a verb in that it "teaches" us by life experiences how to live a godly life in this wicked world. Grace is not just an act of undeserved mercy by God, but it (grace) is also His way of teaching us through what most of us know as "the school of hard knocks."

We never become sinless, but we do reach the place that Paul stated that sin no longer has "dominion over us" (Rom. 6:14).

I pray this helps you and others; it sure has helped me with many of my struggles.

patrick,
thank you so much for posting that section of teaching from ray. God knew that i needed it, and i thank Him for (once again) using a brother (or sister) in Christ to help me see things more clearly.

claudia

[Daddysgirl]

This is just my experience, but when I "feel spiritual" it's usually a sign that I don't "feel humble."  I'd rather feel humble any day, because the reward is in heaven.  I suspect that the reward for feeling spiritual is it's own reward.

Oh! how I totally agree. For me, since finding Ray's site some months ago, I have found the "feeling spiritual" thing fading further and further away. Ofcourse it has worried me sometimes, especially my prayer life. Babylon had taught us to pray formally, now i feel no desire to do that. Even though i talk to God almost all day everyday, i still got a bit worried that i dedicate no time at all now to just being "in His presence"- quite frankly, i just never feel like doing that anymore. It could be wrong, i dont know.

I have also seen the beast manifesting itself more since God brought me to BT. Then i see God making me do things i would otherwise not do(good ones)- it's just been a hectic spiritual battle i have to say. The only thing "spiritual" i ever feel like doing(infact, spend a lot of my time on) is reading Ray's material, not even so much scripture. I had spent more than 8 years reading and reading, memorising and re- reading the word with a mind immensely influenced by babylonian theology, been to some bible schools, taught descipleship classes. I just dont have that desire at the moment. Fortunately a lot of scripture that Ray and others on the forum quote, i still remember off by heart, so i take more interest in the meaning of words now. i hope that someday God will bring back the desire to read scripture....

Anyhow, just my " feeling".

Matty

[jg]

Thanks all, a lot of good insight here.

Marques,

Just you thinking about this and wanting to change is a sign that Christ is working in you towards repentance. Those that Christ is not working in have no time to think whether or not they are lusting after money...they're too busy lusting after money. 

That really helped me.  That's what I needed to hear, so thanks for the edification, what a lift that was.

Wow, so much to talk about... 
Maybe I should further clarify what I mean by "feeling spiritual."  It's more like, "close to God."  I dont mean puffed up or in an arogant way.  It's that "peacefulness" when praying, or when you're just spending time with God and a wave of "everything is ok between you and your God" comes over you.  (Not that He's done with me, but I know He loves me)  At times, that peacefulness is what is missing...

I know that judgement begins with the house of God.  That means me, He's working in me to make me more Christ-like, burning out the carnal, one thing at a time. Like when the holy spirit nudged me about how I was also lusting after "more money," so I could meet my bills. I was reminded "not to worry about anything," but I realized I was doing just that. Trying hard to figure out what else "I" could do to come up with more cash, etc. It was consuming me. That had to stop.   

Since I started reading and re-rereading Ray's teachings, God is on my mind, almost constantly. I have such a burning desire to learn more, to grow in Him.  There are times though, when that burning desire is what is missing.  That's when I get worried that I'm 'thorny ground.'  Sometimes I find myself crying out to God, "Don't stop working on me!"  Kinda scarry.  I want more than anything to please Him, to be found "acceptable."

Aqr,  thanks too for your thoughts.  I too have had the thought that there is no God.  Just having that thought scares me,,,, even admitting that I've had that thought is hard to do.  I think, "Where did THAT come from."   After seeing your post I felt better, maybe I'm not the only one after all. 

Patrick, thanks for posting what Ray had to say. 

And the rest of you, I dont have time to say thanks to each of you individually so please consider yourself thanked,

Its nice to know I'm growing, changing, and that He put that desire in me.  What a God we serve!

Thanks again, all. 

Joe

[larissa4676]

Hi Joe,

I'm new here as well so I hope what I share helps. I think it's great that you've seen your "lust for money." I've thought about that allot since coming out of Babylon. Most folks will tell you they do not lust for money (those that I know anyway) but their lives contradict that. They spend 8-10 hours per day preparing, traveling to, working, traveling from, spending time out of their Word studies, away from family all to make money. They go to "church" for a couple of hours a day and complain that the service is too long. Who are they really serving.

Parents teach us to get an education.
Education teaches us to get a job.
Society tells us what to wear, we need a house, a car, etc.
We work a job til we're 70 or so, get a watch, then die.
All of the world systems are set in place to keep us from following God. "Keep em busy doing nothing" if you will. The fact that you are seeing the error in that system is a great sign.

[winner08]

 Sorry I haven't learn how to quote yet so i just copied and pasted this from Larissa4676

I'm new here as well so I hope what I share helps. I think it's great that you've seen your "lust for money." I've thought about that allot since coming out of Babylon. Most folks will tell you they do not lust for money (those that I know anyway) but their lives contradict that. They spend 8-10 hours per day preparing, traveling to, working, traveling from, spending time out of their Word studies, away from family all to make money. They go to "church" for a couple of hours a day and complain that the service is too long. Who are they really serving.

I don't mean do disrespect, But I don't understand this line of though. I have to work, I have to prepare and travel to and from work. I have to spend time out of my Word studies and away from my family, all to make money. I just don't go to church a couple hr. a day. I don;t go to church period. Never really did. That being said I must do these things you seem to think is lusting for money just so I can survive, feed my family, clothe them and such. I have no new cars or bikes no riches. I make ends meet as someone here said. That's it. I wish I did not have to work. I wish I could just spend my day with my family and study the Word. But I can't. I don't find what I do a lust for money.  I find what I do necessary. Like I said I am not trying to disrespect you in anyway, I might have misunderstood you words it would be the first time I have done that. If so I am sorry. If not then I have to disagree with you. Most people have to work and spend less and less time with their family. Most people have to go out and make money. I don't believe that means they lust after it. Now I do understand that many do lust after money. The greedy ones. The ones that want more and more. Me and the people I know Just make enough to get by.

Darren

[larissa4676]

Hey Darren.

No problem. First let me make this correction I meant that " people" not you specifically, go to church a few hours a WEEK not day.

Who's work are we completing when we work? Are we making a positive influence/impact in the world with our work or are we just making money? Are we afraid what would happen if we don't have money for bills? Do we think that God won't provide?


I wasn't trying to accuse you of lusting for money and I apologize if I made you or anyone feel that way. I was only attempting to express that it is great that God allowed Joe to see his lusts. I furthered that point by showing the contrast between what folks say they believe and what their actions shows.

I am open to correction.

1Ti 6:10  For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through  with many sorrows.

1Ti 6:11  But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience,
meekness.