> General Discussions
Jerusalem vs. Jerusalem
josh:
Ok, so today I am reading through the book of Zechariah and come across a passage where a man (Angel? Metaphor? Symbol?) attempts to measure Jerusalem, to see the breadth and length… this seems to be literal until an angel goes out to meet him and says that Jerusalem will be a city inhabited without walls, or I believe it is saying that Jerusalem will not be a geographical location, but rather a chosen people scattered across the earth. But then there seems to be a calling out… out of Babylon(world? Church?)…
While reading this passage I recalled Revelations 21, where Jerusalem, the Holy City, is showed to John as “the bride.� This angel then begins to measure the city and the text gives actual measurements (this seems to be more literal, despite that I understand that revelations is a book of symbols)… even still, it seems as this time (whether the measurements are literal or symbolic) the city is able to be measured… or in other words, the city now has walls (limits? completion?)
Now here is two portions of scripture that present the city of Jerusalem, in the first instance the city is “immeasurable� but the second occurrence, specific measurements are given (something has occurred to cause this change) is this the end of the this current age?
Here are the texts I am referring to:
Zechariah 1:16-2:7
Therefore thus saith the LORD; I am returned to Jerusalem with mercies: my house shall be built in it, saith the LORD of hosts, and a line shall be stretched forth upon Jerusalem. Cry yet, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; My cities through prosperity shall yet be spread abroad; and the LORD shall yet comfort Zion, and shall yet choose Jerusalem. Then lifted I up mine eyes, and saw, and behold four horns. And I said unto the angel that talked with me, What be these? And he answered me, These are the horns which have scattered Judah, Israel, and Jerusalem. And the LORD shewed me four carpenters. Then said I, What come these to do? And he spake, saying, These are the horns which have scattered Judah, so that no man did lift up his head: but these are come to fray them, to cast out the horns of the Gentiles, which lifted up their horn over the land of Judah to scatter it.
I lifted up mine eyes again, and looked, and behold a man with a measuring line in his hand. Then said I, Whither goest thou? And he said unto me, To measure Jerusalem, to see what is the breadth thereof, and what is the length thereof. And, behold, the angel that talked with me went forth, and another angel went out to meet him, And said unto him, Run, speak to this young man, saying, Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls for the multitude of men and cattle therein: For I, saith the LORD, will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her. Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the LORD: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the LORD.
Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon.
Revelation 21:1-3, 9-10,
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
Any thoughts?
Daniel:
Josh, I would like to write alot but I think that might not be a good idea. These are "symbols" they signify and are the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Listen to how this is worded (knowing in Revelation, He states He has sent His Angel (which is a "Messenger" and a flame of fire)
Mal 3:1 Behold, I will SEND MY MESSENGER, and he shall prepare the way before me: and THE LORD :idea: whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, EVEN THE MESSENGER :idea: of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
Note THE WALL[/b] is MEASURED, its not a what but a WHO.
Zach 2:5 For I, saith the LORD, will be unto her A WALL of FIRE round about, and will be the GLORY in the midst of her.[/u] Rev 21:11 Her HAVING the GLORY of God is Christ in her, he is THAT stone.
It ALL speaks of Jesus Christ, its a revelation of Him who shows us the Father, through Him.
Rev 21:7 And he MEASURED THE WALL "thereof", an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the MEASURE OF A MAN , that is, of THE ANGEL.
The WALL (being HIM) is measured in cubits
Mathew 6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one CUBIT unto HIS STATURE? (God ADDS and increases)
Ephesian 4:13 TILL we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a PERFECT MAN, UNTO THE MEASURE of the STATURE of the FULNESS OF CHRIST:[/u]
Gal 4:14... but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.[/u]
Words to look at are what God adds, multiplies and makes "equal to"
Theres much more on without measure, immeasurable without measure etc. Paul uses words concerning "measure" and how these pertain to Christ our salvation. For example one quick one to show two sides to one coin (there always is). We are "measured" a measure of faith. Christ has the Spirit without measure. We are to "grow up" in HIM and the full measure of Christ, then... I would ask, if then does God gives us the spirit without measure? See? They truly are a revelation of Him and Christ in uus is our hope of Glory, thats why He is the glory within her and the very wall of fire round about. Paul speaks of comprehending the height, breadth, width and depth of the love of God in Christ. At some point the typing must need to end completely because it will surpass knowledge and I'm thinking, " immeasurable". Thats what I'm thinking. I'll stop there if you add too much it becomes unreadable. Theres much much more in this though, I can't write well, thats not a strength of mine, forgive me :oops:
Daniel
knuckle:
Hi Josh---------
4 is the number of the whole
12 is the number of strong spiritual foundation
144 is 12 squared
my thoughts are this----in revalations we have the strongest spiritual foundation,The Rock,which is Christ on which that Jerusalem will stand
Just as a tree is known by his fruit so a house or city is known by it's dwellers.Is a church the house of God?Only if His people are there.If they are not then it is not a church it is babylon.Is Jarusalem God's city--If His people are not there then it is sodom.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Folks God dwells in the hearts of men.Those mansions are not FOR us,they ARE us
much love-----------knuckle
Daniel:
Amen Knuckle as a freind of mine has shown me a cute little thing with those "Mansions" much like "Mount SION" which are spirits of just MEN made perfect. They are MAN "SIONS"... His MANSIONS :D
Hey anyone check out how long Job lived including the generations?
Daniel
chrissiela:
--- Quote from: Daniel ---Amen Knuckle as a freind of mine has shown me a cute little thing with those "Mansions" much like "Mount SION" which are spirits of just MEN made perfect. They are MAN "SIONS"... His MANSIONS :D
Hey anyone check out how long Job lived including the generations?
Daniel
--- End quote ---
:lol: :lol: :lol:
an hundred and forty years... even four generations. :wink:
Chrissie 8-[
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
Go to full version