bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Forum related how to's?  Post your questions to the membership.


.

Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Down

Author Topic: Paul's contradiction of Jesus?  (Read 19258 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Paul's contradiction of Jesus?
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2009, 11:57:03 AM »

Hi Pinko,

You stated;
"Jesus Christ in effect said, these kingdoms of man are irrelevant."

Do you have any scriptural witnesses to this observation? These worldly kingdoms are indeed temporary, but they do serve a purpose in God's plan.

Peter explains this apparent dilemma very effectively, we endure this worldly system for the Lord's sake, for His glory.


  1Peter 2

 11Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

 12Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

 13Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

 14Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

 15For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

 16As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

 17Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

 18Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

 19For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.

 20For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

 21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

 22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

 23Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

 24Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

 25For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

 Peace,
 
 Joe
Logged

Dave in Tenn

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4311
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: Paul's contradiction of Jesus?
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2009, 01:49:12 PM »

Beloved made my point and much shorter too.

I can't believe you when you say you have 'no politics' or are 'anti-political' as you continue to define yourself in Political terms.  Sorry...that doesn't fly. 

That's between you and God, however.  There's at least a little of that kind of re-defined  ""anarchy"" in most of us, I am guessing.  What I have to totally reject is your definition of Jesus Christ in political terms.  Whether you mean to or not, that is the language of ideology and pays no respect to a God who tells US who he is, and gives us our names too. 

I personaly think you are missing the big picture.  Peter and Paul were instructing the people on how to live in the circumstances in which they found themselves--mostly under occupation, in a culture rife with slavery, and under threat of arrest and execution for failing to follow the state religion.  Makes me laugh to think anybody believes we've got it worse. 

All of us come to truth from where we were by the Grace of God.  All of us will continue in Truth from where we are.  But it serves no purpose to insist that others follow our 'logic' to a determined end.  You chose the terms at the very least.  For anybody to get on your logical path would require a reasonable understanding of the basics and history of Anarchism (you do know there is more than ONE strain, do you not?) as it has congealed in your mind.  I have no desire to get off my trail to do that.  I'm a monarchist.   ;D

I have to admit, this is the first time I've had 'this discussion' since receiving the Gospel.  Where is Reg when you need him? 
Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

pinko

  • Guest
Re: Paul's contradiction of Jesus?
« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2009, 03:18:07 PM »

I think Craig has it right... This discussion usually does turn into a dead horse and I, too, tire of beating it.

I also think most of us in this discussion are more in agreement than not.  Strange as that is.  It's not the philosophy of anarchism that matters most to me..I realy don't care how others define it, or define themselves by their opinion of its adherents.  What matters to me is the practical aspect of the idea...

"How then should we live."  I think I understand that our world is not the world of Peter and Paul.  We are far removed from that.  But in some ways, we are in a more dangerous place.. We in the West are quite fortunate right now...certainly that has not always been the case, and it could change in a moment.  But what you believe in your heart, at some point must connect with your feet---where the leather hits the road, so to speak.

Joe quotes 1Peter2... I've read it.  I do not claim to fully understand it.  I even leave open the possibility that its instruction was temporal--or even Peter's error..  But nevertheless, however we interpret that passage, how do we live it

Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

Great notion.  Joe, what I'm asking is how would you handle being a slave chained in a basement room?  Me personally, I'd try to escape.  Does this violate the teachings of Christ?  Is it contrary to Peter's teachings here?  ..Peter talks the talk, but when offered the chance to break out of prison by the angel in the 12th chapter of Acts, he sure did bug out quick!  Perhaps he should have been more "subject" to his authorities..  Did Peter act consistently with his own teachings? 

Beloved made my point and much shorter too.

I can't believe you when you say you have 'no politics' or are 'anti-political' as you continue to define yourself in Political terms.  Sorry...that doesn't fly. 

Dave, here is the etymology of the word "politics":

(1529), "science of government," from politic (adj.), modeled on Aristotle's ta politika "affairs of state," the name of his book on governing and governments, which was in Eng. 1450 as "Polettiques."

    "Politicks is the science of good sense, applied to public affairs, and, as those are forever changing, what is wisdom to-day would be folly and perhaps, ruin to-morrow. Politicks is not a science so properly as a business. It cannot have fixed principles, from which a wise man would never swerve, unless the inconstancy of men's view of interest and the capriciousness of the tempers could be fixed." [Fisher Ames (1758–1808)]

Meaning "a person's political allegiances or opinions" is from 1769. Political animal transl. Gk. politikon zoon (Aristotle, Politics, I.ii.9) "an animal intended to live in a city; a social animal."


I reject that ideology, Dave.  I have no part in it.  The affairs of the state are not my affairs..  I have no political allegiances.. I do not believe man is an animal intended to live in a city... Nay, QUITE the CONTRARY..  You don't have to buy it; it don't have to fly for you...but it works for me.  It feels to me to be the only consistent opinion to have regarding the state qua the teachings of Jesus.

Quote
All of us come to truth from where we were by the Grace of God.  All of us will continue in Truth from where we are.  But it serves no purpose to insist that others follow our 'logic' to a determined end.  You chose the terms at the very least.  For anybody to get on your logical path would require a reasonable understanding of the basics and history of Anarchism (you do know there is more than ONE strain, do you not?) as it has congealed in your mind.  I have no desire to get off my trail to do that.  I'm a monarchist.   ;D

That's cool man.  I'm not trying to make anyone an anarchist!  But your beliefs too may one day be tested.  Be patient.  Stay on your trail.. and know that all roads eventually lead to Rome.   ;)

I'm glad we could have 'this discussion'.  I'm sure the Lord in his wisdom had good reason for causing it!

Logged

hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Paul's contradiction of Jesus?
« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2009, 04:34:37 PM »


Joe quotes 1Peter2... I've read it.  I do not claim to fully understand it.  I even leave open the possibility that its instruction was temporal--or even Peter's error..  But nevertheless, however we interpret that passage, how do we live it

Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

Great notion.  Joe, what I'm asking is how would you handle being a slave chained in a basement room?  Me personally, I'd try to escape.  Does this violate the teachings of Christ?  Is it contrary to Peter's teachings here?  ..Peter talks the talk, but when offered the chance to break out of prison by the angel in the 12th chapter of Acts, he sure did bug out quick!  Perhaps he should have been more "subject" to his authorities..  Did Peter act consistently with his own teachings? 


Hi Pinko,

I can appreciate the different thoughts and scenarios we all can come up with from time to time, wondering or imagining what we would do in certain situations. As far as being a slave chained in a basement is concerned part of the equation would have to include how did I find myself in that position? Did I break rules or a confidence, was I not working hard enough? What got me in this unenviable situation?

If it was out of pure meanness and my master was just delusional and insane an escape would certainly be my goal, but why else would someone chain a slave in a basement unless they were a danger or unreliable or the master was a madman, it doesn't seem much work could be accomplished, what good is a slave that cannot work?

Peter left the prison because it was obvious that was the Lord's will. Neither Peter nor Paul attempted to run away when martyrdom stared them in the face.

Getting back to my thoughts on "what if" exercises, I will quote Jesus and James, this really does put things in perspective and give one peace.


Mat 6:34  Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. (today is trouble enough!)

Jam 4:14  Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapor, that appeareth for a little time and then vanisheth away.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.034 seconds with 18 queries.