What Can I Do ?

Samson · January 21, 2009, 10:18:39 AM

Good Morning Everyone,

I thought that this New Email to Ray, Copied & Pasted below would
make for a good Spiritually enlightening discussion. The individual in
question had a sincere question and commented in a way that most
people view available information from an Orthodox Viewpoint. Because
the majority believe a certain way, it must be true. I like the way that
Ray only uses the Scriptures referring to the Seven Churches mentioned
in Revelation chapter 2 & 3 in proving the many called in contrast to
the few chosen Elect ones down through the centuries.

After reading this Email with great interest, enjoying the Question and
Rays Reply, the following Scripture came to mind: " Adulteresses, Do you
not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God. Whoever,
therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an
enemy of God." (James. 4:4) This Scripture helps me appreciate that
the Orthodox Christian majority with there so called Bible Scholar experts
and supportive Theologians are motivated by their desire for Friendship
with this World at the expense of Truth. The Rank & File believer find it
much easier to just conform to the preferred understanding of Spiritual
things.

As stated by Ray in this Email, he recognized the sincerity of this individual
and proceeded to answer his question even though Ray had 1233 Emails
ahead of him. He loves Rays Site and was faced with an apparent problem,
at least in his eyes. Ray could have listed the names of individuals thoughout
Centuries(second to present) that were on the right track, had a measure of
light, but he didn't do so and maybe he didn't because there is no way of
definitely knowing for a certainty which individuals throughout the Centuries
were of the Elect, so he stuck with a good Scriptural exposition to provide
the Email er an accurate response to his concerns.

Looking forward to your comments and responses that relate to the Email er
question and Rays explanation using the Seven Churches in Revelation to
explain " The many called " (majority of believers) and " The few Chosen "
(minority Elect).

What can I Do?
« on: Today at 07:49:05 AM »

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Ray, I love your site and I thank you for your diligent study. My question is: Most of the people in my sphere of influence all say the same thing. How could I trust what one man says, against 100s of years of devoted and dedicated people who all come to a different conclusion?

In other words, they say "I would tend to trust the x number of years of historical study brought forth by our church fathers, versus one man who says he has the truth and nobody else gets it.

HOW DO I OFFER INTELLIGENT RESPONSE TO THIS KIND OF MENTALITY?

That is it in a nutshell, any help would be appreciated.

In Christ,
Troy

Dear Troy: Good question, however, I have never ever said or insinuated that I am "one man who says he has the truth and nobody else gets it." There are many ways to prove that only the "few chosen" out of the "many called," who understand and live the Truths of God. Since I have twelve hundred and thirty-three unanswered emails ahead of yours also waiting for a reply from me, I will just give you one really good proof.

The seven churches prophesied in Revelation 2 and 3 are the entire Church of God that "is, was, and is to come," down through the centuries. How many in this entire generational church understand and live the Truths of God?

EPHESIS: "you have left your first love" (Rev. 2:4). "you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate" (Verse 6)--that the REST of the entire Church!

SMYRNA: "the devil shall cast SOME of you [not MOST you] into prison" (Rev. 2:10).

PERGAMOS: "where SATAN'S seat [throne] is" (Verse 13). They were filled with Nicolaitanes and had the "doctrine of Balaam" (Verses 114-15).

THYATIRA: They represented "that woman Jezebel, which calls herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce My servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols" (Verse 20). "She, [the whole Church] REPENTED NOT" (Verse 21). "But unto YOU [the FEW] I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as MANY ['not the 'many called,' but "AS many...'] as have NOT this doctrine, and which have NOT known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon YOU [the FEW who know the truth and live it] none other burden" (Verse 24).

SARDIS: "you have a name that you live, but [you] are dead" (Rev. 3:1). You have a FEW names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white..." (Verse 4). How many? The whole Church? Most of the Church? The "historical" Church down through the centuries? NO--just "a FEW names."

PHILADELPHIA: "Behold I will make THEM OF THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN, which SAY they are [converted, born again, spiritually circumcised] Jew, and ARE NOT..." (Rev. 3:9). That's the entire Church which say they are "spiritually converted spiritual Jew," but they "ARE NOT," because they lie and have NOT the truth of the "FEW NAMES" in God's Church

LAODICEA: "You [the many in the Church down through the centuries of the Church age] are neither cold nor hot...So then because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue you out of My mouth" (Verses 15-16). "...and you KNOW NOT that you are wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked" (Ver. 17). "AS MANY [not 'THE many,' but "AS many'] as I love, I rebuke and chasten: [God chastens those He has chosen, and if they refuse chastening, as the whole of the Church does, then they are spiritual '********, and NOT SONS,' Heb. 12:5-8]; be zealous therefore, and repent" (Verse 19).

Jesus asked if He would "find faith" on the earth when He returns? Obviously NOT. But how could that be, seeing that there are over TWO BILLIONS CHRISTIANS IN THE CHURCH?!

Hope that helps your understanding.
God be with you,
Ray

aqrinc · January 21, 2009, 12:52:28 PM

Hi Samson,

All i can add to the discourse is one personal experience with one closest to me physically.
In our discussions just yesterday the comment was made; you always get these spells when
you learn something new and you go at it like there is nothing else. Why would you go and
believe this man; when everybody else is saying something different; is he the only one that
knows the Truth.

After calming down from a potential blowup; the only retort i used were these very Scriptures:

Revelation: 3: 15-16
15-I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot: I would you were cold or hot.
16-So then because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of my mouth.

LAODICEA: "You [the many in the Church down through the centuries of the Church age] are neither
cold nor hot...So then because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue you out of My
mouth" (Verses 15-16). "...and you KNOW NOT that you are wretched, and miserable, and poor, and
blind, and naked" (Ver. 17)

More and more i find that All of what i did in searching for Truth has been directed by God.
Every time i learned a new piece of information i went after it with every bit of my focus
until it either proved itself right or wrong. Jesus Christ promised that He would Send The
Comforter to Guide and Teach us in All Truth; He Has.

We most times don't know what or why we do a certain thing but know we need to do it now.

Exodus 23:20:
Behold, I send an Angel before you, to keep you in the way, and to bring you into the place
which I have prepared.

Exodus 33:2:
And I will send an angel before you; and I will drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, and the
Hittite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite:

John 14:26:
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost (Spirit), whom the Father will send in my name, he shall
teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.

Praise GOD THE FATHER and Our Lord Jesus Christ; Who Never Fail.

george.

Dave in Tenn · January 21, 2009, 01:47:06 PM

Samson, I don't have an intelligent answer.

Luk 15:11 Now He said, "A certain man had two sons."
Luk 15:12 And the younger of them said to the father, 'Father, give me the part of the estate accruing to me.' Now he apportioned to them the livelihood."
Luk 15:13 And, after not many days, gathering all together, the younger son travels into a far country and there dissipates his estate, living profligately."
Luk 15:14 Now, he spending all, a severe famine occurred in that country, and he begins to be in want."
Luk 15:15 And, going, he was joined to one of the citizens of that country, and he sends him into his fields to graze hogs."
Luk 15:16 And he yearned to be satisfied with the little carob pods which the hogs ate, and no one gave to him."
Luk 15:17 Now, coming to himself, he averred, 'How many of my father's hired men are being cloyed with bread, yet I am perishing here of famine!"
Luk 15:18 Rising, I will go to my father and declare to him, "Father, I sinned against heaven and in your sight."
Luk 15:19 No longer am I worthy to be called your son. Make me as one of your hired men."'"
Luk 15:20 And rising, he came to his father. "Now, at his being still far away, his father perceived him and has compassion, and running, falls on his neck and fondly kisses him."
Luk 15:21 Now the son said to him, 'Father, I sinned against heaven and in your sight. No longer am I worthy to be called your son. Make me as one of your hired men.'"
Luk 15:22 Yet the father said to his slaves, 'Quick! Bring forth the first robe, and put it on him, and give him a ring for his hand and sandals for his feet."
Luk 15:23 And bring the grain-fed calf, sacrifice it, and, eating, we may make merry,
Luk 15:24 for this my son was dead and revives; he was lost and was found.' And they begin to make merry.
Luk 15:25 Now his elder son was in the field, and, coming, as he nears the house, he hears music and choral dancing."
Luk 15:26 And, calling one of the boys to him, he inquired to ascertain whatever this may be."
Luk 15:27 Now he said to him that 'Your brother is arriving, and your father sacrifices the grain-fed calf, seeing that he got him back sound.'"
Luk 15:28 Now he is indignant and would not enter. Yet his father, coming out, entreated him."
Luk 15:29 Now he, answering, said to his father, 'Lo! so many years am I slaving for you, and I never passed by your precept, and you never give me a kid that I may make merry with my friends."
Luk 15:30 Yet when this son of yours came, who is devouring your livelihood with prostitutes, you sacrifice for him the grain-fed calf!'"
Luk 15:31 Now he said to him, 'Child, you are always with me, and all mine is yours."
Luk 15:32 Yet we must be merry and rejoice, seeing that this your brother was dead and revives, and was lost and was found.'"

That's me, the second son.

Mat 20:1 "For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard.
Mat 20:2 After agreeing with the workers for one denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
Mat 20:3 When he went out about nine o'clock, he saw others standing in the marketplace without work.
Mat 20:4 He said to them, 'You go into the vineyard, too, and I will pay you whatever is right.'
Mat 20:5 So off they went. He went out again about noon and about three o'clock and did the same thing.
Mat 20:6 About five o'clock he went out and found some others standing around. He said to them, 'Why are you standing here all day long without work?'
Mat 20:7 They told him, 'Because no one has hired us.' He said to them, 'You go into the vineyard as well.'
Mat 20:8 "When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his manager, 'Call the workers and give them their wages, beginning with the last and ending with the first.'
Mat 20:9 Those who were hired at five o'clock came, and each received a denarius.
Mat 20:10 When the first came, they thought they would receive more, but each received a denarius as well.
Mat 20:11 When they received it, they began to complain to the landowner,
Mat 20:12 saying, 'These last fellows worked only one hour, yet you have made them equal to us who have endured the burden of the day and the scorching heat!'
Mat 20:13 But he said to one of them, 'Friend, I'm not treating you unfairly. You did agree with me for a denarius, didn't you?
Mat 20:14 Take what is yours and go. I want to give this last man as much as I gave you.
Mat 20:15 I am allowed to do what I want with my own money, am I not? Or is your eye evil because I am good?'
Mat 20:16 In the same way, the last will be first, and the first will be last. For many are called, but few are chosen."

That's me...one of the workers hired at five o'clock.

If we got the 'hereafter' we grew up believing in, I would squeak past God into Heaven on the power of a 15-second prayer, a few acts of righteousness, and a promise of eternal security. In the course of an evening, I traded 'heaven' for the Lake of Fire, and I couldn't be happier with the trade.

I wasn't looking for the truth. I wasn't looking for anything more than a few minutes of diversion mocking the nutcase. I wasn't looking for a teacher. Heck, my ears weren't even itching. I was found like Peter at his nets. I was knocked off my horse like Paul on the road to Damascus. I have no explaining to do to anybody. I didn't ask for this, I never expected it, and it's all of God. I pray I can continue in the way I began.

aqrinc · January 21, 2009, 03:55:43 PM

Amen Brother.

These Scriptures are so

opening; i get giddy from loving It.

george.

indianabob · January 22, 2009, 12:03:52 AM

Samson and friends,

What is important to understand, it seems to me, is that God is using the most common the most base, the most difficult and troublesome individuals to do His work "so that no man should glory" and take credit for the result.
God is using me and you if I may make a judgment, because we have nothing to commend us and it will be obvious to one and all that it was God doing the work in us and the result was not based upon any talent or strength of our own. The only talent of any value that we each have is a willling attitude of obedience and appreciation for the blessings that we are able to exercise and even those talents are a gift of God.

It really goes to demonstrate that God can do very much while having little or nothing to work with. We are then a creation of God in the basic sense. Plain, simple, ordinary clay being molded into a beautiful vessel to contain His holy spirit and to become, eventually, exactly like His holy son Jesus, a perfect servant and a son of God.

Bob

Samson · January 22, 2009, 08:53:05 AM

Quote from: indianabob on January 22, 2009, 12:03:52 AM
Samson and friends,

What is important to understand, it seems to me, is that God is using the most common the most base, the most difficult and troublesome individuals to do His work "so that no man should glory" and take credit for the result.
God is using me and you if I may make a judgment, because we have nothing to commend us and it will be obvious to one and all that it was God doing the work in us and the result was not based upon any talent or strength of our own. The only talent of any value that we each have is a willling attitude of obedience and appreciation for the blessings that we are able to exercise and even those talents are a gift of God.

It really goes to demonstrate that God can do very much while having little or nothing to work with. We are then a creation of God in the basic sense. Plain, simple, ordinary clay being molded into a beautiful vessel to contain His holy spirit and to become, eventually, exactly like His holy son Jesus, a perfect servant and a son of God.

Bob

Amen Brother Bob,

Just like the Scriptures indicate(using the unlettered, people viewed as ordinary, certainly
not " Friends of the World "). Acts. 4:13(Peter & John, men ordinary & unlettered);
1 Cor. 1:27(God chose the Foolish things to put the strong things to shame, that no flesh
might boast); 1 Cor. 3:19,20( The wisdom of this world is foolishness with God, the reasonings
of wise men are futile). Note: Scriptural Quotes were paraphrased to emphasized the fact
that God choses who He wants to, not basing it on Worldly Educational Credentials. The
Apostle Paul was somewhat an exception to this, but boy did God humble him, in His use
of him. Nevertheless, God primarily uses the ordinary average people for his work.

Also, thankyou George and Dave for your comments and input to the discussion of Ray's
Email.

Kind Regards, Samson.

OBrenda · January 22, 2009, 12:00:59 PM

Good food shared here Samson,

Bob....Did you have your surgery yet?

Brenda

What Can I Do ?

Samson

aqrinc

Dave in Tenn

aqrinc

indianabob

Samson

OBrenda