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Author Topic: Being Not of this World  (Read 16363 times)

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Shane.

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Being Not of this World
« on: January 21, 2009, 07:51:27 PM »

Hello everyone.  I just found Ray's website and much encouragement in it.  I haven't had the time to read it all, and I know I'm breaking the rules by posting, but I'd really like some advice. 

Anyway, I sent an email to Ray a while back and I realized he doesn't have time to answer them all.  I found this message board so I thought I would post it here.  It's kind of personal but I guess I'm using the anonymity of the internet to my benefit  ;)  Here we go...

Dear Ray,

I am a twenty year old college student who, within the last couple of years, has been awakened to the true nature of my savior.  Finding your website and reading your articles is one of the most encouraging things that has happened to me in some time.  I quickly found that all those who speak the truth will meet persecution.  I was naive enough to think I could convince my parents and fellow church members that we were way off in our ideology.  Since then I have been labeled everything from a blasphemer to a Marxist.

Anyway, that’s not what my email is about.  I can deal with that, I find strength in the scripture whenever I look.  The question I have is the question I myself cannot answer when many have asked.  Those that will listen to my criticisms of modern Christianity can only ask me what they should be doing.  So I am writing you with the same one.  What should I, as twenty year old student devoted to Christ, be doing?  Unfortunately I haven’t had the time to read through all of your articles so I apologize if you’ve already answered.

Just for the sake of sharing, I’d like to tell you what I am drawn to.  Christ’s commandment to live in a kingdom not of this world has been tugging at my heart.  Mostly because I am student of history and literature and I have seen the failings of worldly kingdoms.  Time and time again, those who trusted in men rather than God have reaped what they have sown.  I feel that living in western civilization is living in sin.  For our luxuries many suffer.  One scripture comes to mind.

             And I heard another voice from heaven saying come out of her my people, that ye be not         
             partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. (Revelation 18:4)

I just finished reading your essay on Christ’s more biting language (great job by the way) and when I came to that verse I felt that we are called out of more than just the modern church.  We are called out of empire and rule by man.  I feel that dependence on my government rather than God is clearly a duel allegiance and that living under my government inherently despises God.  For this, I want to make an Exodus from empire and into the wilderness.  To trust only in God and no longer partake in the sins of my society.  Do you feel this is misguided?  If so, why?  Any wisdom you could offer would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much for reading.

God Bless,
Shane 


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smeacham

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Re: Being Not of this World
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2009, 08:01:03 PM »

Certainly, Ray has taught to eschew things of this world such as politics, yoga, and fighting in armies.  It seems that his take on it is, if you can't imagine Jesus doing a thing, then why would YOU want to do a thing, if you're trying to be like Him?

I'd take that to speak of rebellion, too.  I'm not saying that you are suggesting being a back-woods rifleman, killing any revenue man that comes after you to collect taxes.  But, just in case it crosses somebody's mind, Jesus never practiced such social disobedience or criminal behavior, either.  Again, if He didn't, neither should we.

At least in New Zealand and the United States (two countries I've lived in), I don't think a person can live off the land anymore without dealing with the "empire" as you say it.  Not without being labeled a bad person and being treated as the same.  Nonetheless, I admire your sentiments - I think you've got the right sense of things, but need to think long and hard about how to apply them in your life.

Be sure to let us know what Ray says, once he gets to your message.  He's over a thousand behind right now since he's been very ill.

Steve
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dave

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Re: Being Not of this World
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2009, 08:20:18 PM »

John15:18       John17:15-21 Thats how He has brought me to understand. Bless the Lord.
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Shane.

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Re: Being Not of this World
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2009, 08:36:39 PM »

Thanks for your replies Steve and micah.

Of course, I do not believe violence is a means to ANYTHING but suffering.  As for living off the land without bowing before Empire?  I don't see it as impossible.  There are actually small groups of people living primitively in national parks all over the nation.  Sure the land is owned by the federal government but who is to say that anyone but God can claim ownership to creation? 

I have also participated in acts of civil disobedience where I felt Christ's presence.  For example, it is illegal to take perfectly fine, sealed, and barely expired food out of the dumpster.  It is also illegal to distribute any kind of food without a food distributors license.  The threat of jail time or fines have never deterred me from filling a need where I see it.  As for being labeled a bad person and being treated the same, is it not true that ALL those who stand for righteousness will be persecuted?

I know my call sounds radical, but was Christ's not also? 
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ryan_p_boerner

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Re: Being Not of this World
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2009, 08:45:04 PM »

Shane,

You need to listen to what god wills. Do you think that going into the wilderness will glorify god? Remember that is key. No matter who condemns you for what you believe stay string and know that god is in charge and nothing is possible with out god. I know that it is hard but you will get past it if it is gods will and just remember that when those you try to help condemn you that god has not given them the understanding and may never give it to them. Just continue to glorify god in your actions, and remember that it doesn't say anywhere in the bible that you have to believe in hell to go to heaven. So next time someone condemns you for your belief tell them that



                                                                                                                god bless
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Akira329

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Re: Being Not of this World
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2009, 09:48:14 PM »

What should I, as twenty year old student devoted to Christ, be doing? 

Rom 8:5  For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6  For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8  So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Rom 8:12  Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13  For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Col 3:5  Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Col 3:6  For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Col 3:7  In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
Col 3:8  But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Col 3:9  Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

Also do these things:
Col 3:12  Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

1Pe 3:9  Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
1Pe 3:10  For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
1Pe 3:11  Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.

1Pe 3:16  Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
1Pe 3:17  For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

Jas 4:6  But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
Jas 4:10  Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
1Pe 5:6  Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:


Hey Shane,
I can not specifically tell you what you should be doing, I've certainly have had feelings of just getting away from it all!
But how much are you getting away from in the wilderness, the desert, the forest. Its still you with your carnel mind!
Our mind must change not our position on the earth.
Rom 12:2  And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Scripture is full of instructions on what to do, but not by the work of your hands can any of these things come to pass.
Remember this:
Jas 2:17  Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18  Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Hope this helps you!
Antaiwan


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"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile"
-Albert Einstein
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
- Jesus

pinko

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Re: Being Not of this World
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2009, 09:57:55 PM »

Just wanted everyone to know that Shane is not me 'in pseudonym'...   ;)

Shane:  I hear you, bro...

Might want to check out this thread:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,9170.0.html

Great questions, btw.. I wish I'd have thought more about these things when I was your age.. Also, I can vouch for the fact that you can live 'off the grid' so to speak.  It's a hard life; I'm not sure it's what Christ intends for us (yet perhaps it is);  but it is possible.

Do let us know if and what Ray replies to your very thoughtful query.

Peace.
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aqrinc

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Re: Being Not of this World
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2009, 10:34:30 PM »

Hi Shane,

You will need a cram course on what this fight is all about, so here is my suggestion. It
seem you have taken on a large task; take an hour or so and read this paper from Ray:


Small excerpt from: http://bible-truths.com/lake13.html


THE LAKE OF FIRE - Part XIII

WHO IS THE BEAST?

This installment of "The Lake of Fire" will possibly be the very most shocking to most of my readers. That everyone wants to know "WHO IS THE BEAST," there is no doubt. That most will be totally shocked and dumbfounded when they find out, there also is no doubt.

If any wish to stop right here and search another site for a milder and more palatable interpretation of "Who is the beast," there is no shortage of material. My Web Master has found on the four or five most popular search engines, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of papers on "The Beast of Revelation." And, NO, I haven’t read one of them.

THE BEASTS OF REVELATION

The word "beast(s)" is found 356 times in the King James Bible—59 times in Revelation alone. Most of these beasts are literal four-footed animals, albeit, all 59 of the beasts in Revelation are symbols for something other than four-footed animals. The four beasts made reference to 7 times in the singular from Rev. 4:6 to 6:7 should be translated "living creatures" and not "beasts." And all references to "beasts" in the plural (15 times) from Rev. 4:6 to Rev. 19:4 should be also translated "living creatures," with the exception of Rev. 6:8 and 18:13 where "beast" is correct.

george. :)

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Linny

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Re: Being Not of this World
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2009, 12:11:40 AM »

Oh, Shane! To be that young again with such wonderful knowledge!  ;D You are, in my older and now finally wiser opinion, filled with a wild hair that comes with your wonderful youth! I completely understand your need to come out of the world's systems. My husband and I were hugely into politics for years and now we see it for what it is and we stay out of it.
Jesus stayed out of it too.

As Ray wisely said, "A true follower of Jesus cannot be involved in politics. Jesus certainly did not take part in any such worldly activities.
I am an "Ambassador for Christ" (I Cor 5:20). Ambassadors cannot legally take part in the politics of foreign nations.  Jesus never, ever got involved in the operations of the Roman Government over the Jews. We are never taught to "march on Washington," etc. But we are told to COME OUT OF THE WORLD and be separate. "Let the DEAD bury the dead."

In my days of being your age and into my 30's, I told too much, too soon,to too many people! ::) :-\

I hope I don't sound like a granny here because, believe me, I know EXACTLY how you feel!

I just want to lend you my experience not just with life, but with learning all this new information. We all have SO much to learn before we'll be able to handle sharing it and we first have to realize that God does not desire we share it with everyone anyway. He'll let you know when you need to!

I think we can come out of the world in our hearts and in many ways without being too radical. Well, we are considered radical in some ways but we don't see it that way! 8)

Read, read, read. Study, study, study. You are in such a unique position to be learning this so young. Be a sponge and let God show you what He wants from you in His perfect timing.

Blessings, Lin
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Shane.

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Re: Being Not of this World
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2009, 02:05:00 AM »

Hi again everyone.  Great responses!

@pinko:  Love the name :D I read many of the posts from the discussion you linked and I would take your side on most points.  I would differ in that rather than calling myself an anarchist I would call myself a Christian.  That does mean, however, that I claim no allegiance to any man or man-made form of government upon this earth.  My allegiance is to Christ and his kingdom that is not of this world.

@george: Just read through the article and enjoyed it thoroughly however I could not agree with it completely.  This interpretation of the beast is new to me but does seem valid.  It's just that after several readings of Revelation and a few in-depth studies I refuse to believe that any one interpretation can be privileged to the others.  I believe the book serves multiple purposes.  For example, I have read one study that claimed the book of Revelation was written by John to strengthen the resolve of the early church under persecution.  That the anti-Christ spoken of (or maybe not :) ) was the current emperor of Rome and that the mark was the homage one had to pay to Caesar before entering Roman markets.  I believe that God was smart enough to write a book that could serve multiple purposes.

My take on the beast...


"And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great IS FALLEN, IS FALLEN, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities" (Rev. 18:5).
To me, the wine that all nations have drank from is western civilization.  The inherent materialism and gluttony found in western civilization is responsible for the continued destruction of creation.  It has been spread to all nations of the world and continues to corrupt.

@Linny: I do know that many have hardened their hearts.  Instead of getting red in the face arguing with people I have learned it is better to lead by example... a glass can only spill what it contains!  As for the wild hair, maybe you're right.  Then again, Christ did command his adult followers to become like children.

On a similar note, does anyone know why John the Baptist himself lived in the wilderness?  I mean, I know that the voice in the wilderness was a fulfillment of prophecy but I also think that there is a reason that a voice from the wilderness set the stage for Christ.  I wonder if John too felt the need to escape from Rome and her gluttony.     
« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 03:03:33 AM by Shane. »
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Being Not of this World
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2009, 04:07:54 AM »

Who was that naked prophet in the Old Testament?  Young brother, if he had your attitude, he would berate John the Baptist for wearing clothes.  The vegetarians would praise him for the wild honey, but lambast him for eating those poor locusts--except for the lacto-insecto-vegetarians who would appreciate the example he set for their cause in Scripture.  That's really what's important, isn't it?  That Scripture supports our radicalism and makes us feel better about being here.  Right?  I speak as a fool.   

At twenty years old you're still looking for your "identity".  Why don't you let the Lord Jesus tell you who you are?  He made you.

At whatever age, you're going to do whatever the Lord has foreknown you will do.  At twenty years old, much, if not most, of what you'll do is foolishness.  None of the Apostles disappeared into the wilderness.  All of them moved in the world to do the work God had called them to do.  Don't be stubborn--read the scripture Akira laid out for you.  Read it slowly.  Understand the words.  Do you think Jesus would have prayed in John 17:15 "I am not asking you to take them out of the world but to protect them from the evil one."

Do you need more protection than the rest of us?  Do you need sooo much that you have to run to the forest?  Is it 'all those pesky other people and governments and society' that are evil and your heart and motives are pure as snow?  If you think you need to go off the deep-end with some sort of ideological phariseeism, then Go.  God will be there too.  But don't think for a moment that this is an act of righteousness.  I think it's an act of cowardice.

Akira is absolutely right...it's not the world that needs to change, it's not even the surroundings of YOUR personal world that need to change.  It's the world inside YOU that needs to change.  Unless God calls you specifically like John the Baptist and that naked prophet, then hang in here with the rest of us. 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Shane.

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Re: Being Not of this World
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2009, 05:16:30 AM »

I think you have me all wrong.

I know I'm young and now I am feeling pretty foolish indeed for posting my age :)

I don't mean to sound high and mighty.  I've just learned too much to ignore it all.  I'm talking about the fact that, here in the United States of America, we import pretty much everything available on the shelves.  Why?  It can be made cheaper in other countries.  Why can it be made cheaper?  Because these specific countries lack labor laws allowing the creation of literal wage slaves.  Children work for hours on end for as little as 50 cents an hour.  Our lifestyles' are impossible without suffering throughout the world.

The change inside me is happening and my compassion swells for my neighbors all over the planet.  I'm wondering, Dave, what exactly happens after this change inside occurs?  How will they know us?  By our love?  That's what Christ said.

I just want to say that I did not come here to argue my point or win anyone over.  In all honesty I came here to be proven wrong.  My heart and mind is open.   
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mharrell08

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Re: Being Not of this World
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2009, 08:54:44 AM »

I think you have me all wrong.

I know I'm young and now I am feeling pretty foolish indeed for posting my age :)

I don't mean to sound high and mighty.  I've just learned too much to ignore it all.  I'm talking about the fact that, here in the United States of America, we import pretty much everything available on the shelves.  Why?  It can be made cheaper in other countries.  Why can it be made cheaper?  Because these specific countries lack labor laws allowing the creation of literal wage slaves.  Children work for hours on end for as little as 50 cents an hour.  Our lifestyles' are impossible without suffering throughout the world.

The change inside me is happening and my compassion swells for my neighbors all over the planet.  I'm wondering, Dave, what exactly happens after this change inside occurs?  How will they know us?  By our love?  That's what Christ said.

I just want to say that I did not come here to argue my point or win anyone over.  In all honesty I came here to be proven wrong.  My heart and mind is open.   


Why do you feel you are misunderstood instead of being corrected? If you feel that others 'have you all wrong' when and how can one try to correct and admonish you in the spirit?

This is nothing new to members who have been on this forum for more than a little while...a new member (and sometimes older) who feel they have figured it all out, ask others about their 'revelation' stating they are seeking correction and sound counsel, but then resist any and all spiritual truths on the matter.

Ecc 1:9  The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun

Zeph 2:15  This is the rejoicing city that dwelt carelessly, that said in her heart, I am, and there is none beside me: how is she become a desolation, a place for beasts to lie down in! every one that passeth by her shall hiss, and wag his hand.

Rev. 18:7-8  How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

2 Thess 2:3-4  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.



Shane (or any member for that matter), if you don't know who and what you are in these scriptures (and plenty more that Ray has taught on), then it doesn't matter what corner of the earth you run to or what other civilization you turn to...you will continue to worship the Beast and it's image.


Marques
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Being Not of this World
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2009, 11:57:09 AM »

I can't prove you wrong without getting into a long political discussion.  I don't even think you're entirely wrong, so I'd have an even harder time trying to wrestle you away from 'the movement'.  That's not the purpose of the forum, nor is it the purpose of my walk with Christ.  All I can say is that this is a huge and hugely complex world.  And that agendized 'factoids' do not automatically lead to truth.  And a heart filled with compassion is not the same thing as hard-nosed, informed love.  I've also learned you can't argue with an idealogue.  You have to knock the -ism prism off their face before you're even on the same page--even in agreement.

You ask 'what exactly happens after this change occurs' like it happens overnight.  Dude, it won't even happen before you graduate.   ;D

Maybe that doesn't sound as exciting as a WTO demonstration, but its why God made you. 

And pull your pants up, dagnabbit!   :D

   
« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 12:04:31 PM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Mc_Can

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Re: Being Not of this World
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2009, 02:26:21 PM »

Hi there Shane,

Im relatively new to these truths also.  I can empathize with your feelings of wanting to get away from it all.  Ive felt this way at different points in my life as well.  You seem to be struggling with the concept from two different perspectives.  First, there is the growing immorality and second is the consumerism and gross consumption of western societies at the expense of slave labor in the third world. 

Here is how I have come to terms with these feelings when they arise.  Maybe this helps.

Big picture:
 
God is in total control and he loves and cares for all people.  What this tells me is that all the wickedness and inequities throughout the history of the world have a good purpose.  What this also tells me is that those living in wickedness, luxury and excess at the expense of others are likely to be judged by God in such a way that they learn humility, holiness, and develop a heart for others.  Also, those who suffer in poverty and slave labor will be comforted by almighty God in such a way that there will be joy and no more tears.  In light of the current suffering and inequity, it is a wonderful thing to look forward to God's judgements.  There will be a time when all this is made right.

Practical application for me:

God doesnt want me to try to get away from the things of this world.  I believe that learning to live in such a world, in a way that emulates Jesus, is judgement for the elect right now.  The only way to live holy and upright in this world is to learn to die to the flesh.  Have a problem with your sexual appetite?... its all around us... if you dont die to the flesh, you'll never overcome.  Have alot of money and the cares associated with it?... if you dont learn to shun the love of money you will not overcome.  Have a certain seemingly benign hobby like golf, poker, world of warcraft that has become an idol of the heart?... if you do not learn to rid yourself of these idols you will not overcome.  In running to the hills or trying to remove ourselves from the society in which God has placed us, I believe most of us would be shunning the very circumstances God uses to judge us.

Finally beware of false guilt.  God had you born into a modern family in the United States of America.  He did not chose to have you born into a poor family in southeast asia.  This probably means he intends to train you and use you right where you are.  It is the spiritual that is real and lasting but God seems to teach us alot of spiritual lessons through physical circumstances.  Learning to live in moderation in a society plagued with excess is sure to be a meaningful spiritual lesson.  We have certain unique ways of being judged by God in modern day America than others born in different times and circumstances have had.  Im sure there is purpose behind this.  You might even view your comparably wealthy circumstances as a particularly difficult judgement of God.  Jesus did not say "It is harder for a poor man to enter the kingdom of God than for a camel to go through the eye of the needle".

So it helps me to understand that God judges us spiritually through the things we experience in our everyday lives, and in the societies in which he has chosen for us to live.  And if you think of our purpose here in a spiritual sense, being born in a wealthy country such as ours may be a greater challenge from a perspective of learning to die to the flesh then being born in "less fortunate" circumstances.

So this is how I deal with the urge to get away from it all.  Hope it may help in some small way. 
 
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Shane.

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Re: Being Not of this World
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2009, 03:47:28 PM »

"You ask 'what exactly happens after this change occurs' like it happens overnight.  Dude, it won't even happen before you graduate."

I'm asking biblically, once I have turned away from sin, how exactly that manifests itself in my lifestyle?  Like I said previously, if my lifestyle creates the necessity for slave labor throughout the world, how am I not living in sin?

@Mc_Can:  Did God chose to have me born here?  Or did my ancestors defy God's will in creating this empire?  Also, is God in total control or did he gift us creation and also the free will to use it as we please?  16,000 children die of starvation every single day.  Is this God?  Or is it the greed of men?  Men who refuse to let go of their possessions and luxuries even when their brothers and sisters throughout the world are starving to death.

2 Timothy 3:12 (NKJV) Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.

I would really like to understand exactly what brings forth such persecution if this change in me manifests itself in a purely spiritual sense.   
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Falconn003

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Re: Being Not of this World
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2009, 04:01:07 PM »

"You ask 'what exactly happens after this change occurs' like it happens overnight.  Dude, it won't even happen before you graduate."

I'm asking biblically, once I have turned away from sin, how exactly that manifests itself in my lifestyle?  Like I said previously, if my lifestyle creates the necessity for slave labor throughout the world, how am I not living in sin?

@Mc_Can:  Did God chose to have me born here?  Or did my ancestors defy God's will in creating this empire?  Also, is God in total control or did he gift us creation and also the free will to use it as we please?  16,000 children die of starvation every single day.  Is this God?  Or is it the greed of men?  Men who refuse to let go of their possessions and luxuries even when their brothers and sisters throughout the world are starving to death.

2 Timothy 3:12 (NKJV) Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.

I would really like to understand exactly what brings forth such persecution if this change in me manifests itself in a purely spiritual sense.   

If you really , really , really , really , really like to understand, then go here http://www.bible-truths.com/   

Read everything 2-3 times and when you return from this ordeal in full understanding, you should be well into your late 30's or early 40's, what say you ?

Rodger
« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 04:23:00 PM by Falconn003 »
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aqrinc

  • Guest
Re: Being Not of this World
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2009, 04:33:50 PM »

Hi Shane,

You need to stop now and learn; you are yet carnal so you cannot even understand anything Spiritual.
God is not in damage control mode; everything He has purposed Is happening According to His Will.

Your Free Will is non existent, null, never was, is an illusion in your mind.

See if you can understand who the below Scriptures are talking to;

John 4:24:
God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

John 6:63:
It is the spirit that vivifies; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak
to you, they are spirit, and they are life.
 
Romans: 1: 20-23
20-For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly
seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting
power and divinity; that they may be without excuse.

21-Because, knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, neither gave thanks,
but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened.

22-Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23-and traded the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of
corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed animals, and creeping things.

I Corinthians 2:14:
But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness
to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


george. :)

Ps. This is an excerpt from your first post; and the reason you do not yet see.

Hello everyone.  I just found Ray's website and much encouragement in it.  I haven't had the time to read it all, and I know I'm breaking the rules by posting, but I'd really like some advice.

You need to read a whole lot more; but it is really good for you.


 
« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 04:42:59 PM by aqr »
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daywalker

  • Guest
Re: Being Not of this World
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2009, 05:03:26 PM »

Hello Shane,

I understand your feelings. I've done my own share of researching the recent history of our government, as well as governments in general. I had some similar thoughts myself for awhile...

The first thing you have to do is believe and accept that God alone is in control.

Romans 19:10-11: Pilate, then, is saying to Him, "To me you are not speaking! Are you not aware that I have authority to release you and have authority to crucify you?" Jesus answered him, "No authority have you against Me in anything, except it were given to you from above. Therefore he who is giving Me up to you has the greater sin."

Yes even our corrupt government gets its power and authority from God. Of course, that doesn't mean that they can do whatever they want, and it doesn't matter...

But just as God ALONE gives them their authority, God ALONE is responsible for their Judgment! It is not OUR [or YOUR] job to speak out against or judge the government, or anyone in power..

With ONE exception:

Acts 5:29 - Yet answering, Peter and the apostles say, "One must yield to God rather than to men..."


If a government official, beit a police officer, or soldier, or even the President of the United States himself, ASKS YOU to do something that you know is against God's Law, then yes you do have the authority and are commanded to "yield to God rather than to men".


And Remember that it is "through much tribulation that we enter the kingdom" [Acts 14:22], NOT through 'escaping' or 'running away' from tribulation.


May the God of PEACE be with you,

Christopher.
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smeacham

  • Guest
Re: Being Not of this World
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2009, 05:03:46 PM »

Hi Shane,

I think you need to read the material on this web site before posting questions like these.  I'll give you some short answers, but you can go back to the web site articles and get the full answers to all your questions.

...
I'm asking biblically, once I have turned away from sin, how exactly that manifests itself in my lifestyle?
...

Humility.  When you can be humble like a child before God, asking, listening, and accepting what He gives you, it is then that he opens eyes and ears, gives us understanding, and heals us.  "God sets himself against the proud, but he shows favor to the humble." (James 4:6).

...
Did God chose to have me born here?  Or did my ancestors defy God's will in creating this empire?
...

Yes.  Of course God planned for you to be born exactly the place and time and way that you were.  God's will is for us to obey and submit to the authorities placed over us, so your ancestors were resisting His will in the American Revolutionary War.  However, that war was also God's will.  How, you ask?  Because many times it is God's will that we RESIST His will for a while.  Look at Pharaoh - "Let my people go" yet "God hardened Pharaoh's heart."  (Exodus 7:10-13).

...
Also, is God in total control or did he gift us creation and also the free will to use it as we please?
...

We make our own choices, using our own minds.  It's just that our minds are 100% influenced by things such as God's divine influence, our environment, our experiences, and other circumstances.  Since all of these things operate and occur according to God's will, then so does our will.  We will will to do exactly what God wills us to.  See Ray's series on Free Will for a lot more in-depth look.

...
16,000 children die of starvation every single day.  Is this God?  Or is it the greed of men?
...

Yes and Yes.  You must understand that God is not evil, and that God hates evil.  However, God created and uses evil to accomplish His perfect (non-evil) will.  God is working in all of creation a lengthy process that will ultimately make man in His image.  To sum up what that image is, it is to know both good and evil, but to ultimately desire and do only good - like God.  If not for these terrible things, we would be unable to know evil, and learn to hate it, and learn to love righteousness.

It is not evil for God to use evil, if he can make all things righteousness in the end.  It is not evil for God to kill a person, because God can and will raise them from the dead.

...
2 Timothy 3:12 (NKJV) Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.

I would really like to understand exactly what brings forth such persecution if this change in me manifests itself in a purely spiritual sense.   
...

The Spiritual is what is real and permanent.  The physical is what decays and disappears.  The two don't get along, either.  The carnal mind hates what is good, and cannot obey God's commands.  It also hates those that DO.  Wrap your mind around that one and you may start to see.

Steve
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