> General Discussions
Being Not of this World
Dave in Tenn:
Who was that naked prophet in the Old Testament? Young brother, if he had your attitude, he would berate John the Baptist for wearing clothes. The vegetarians would praise him for the wild honey, but lambast him for eating those poor locusts--except for the lacto-insecto-vegetarians who would appreciate the example he set for their cause in Scripture. That's really what's important, isn't it? That Scripture supports our radicalism and makes us feel better about being here. Right? I speak as a fool.
At twenty years old you're still looking for your "identity". Why don't you let the Lord Jesus tell you who you are? He made you.
At whatever age, you're going to do whatever the Lord has foreknown you will do. At twenty years old, much, if not most, of what you'll do is foolishness. None of the Apostles disappeared into the wilderness. All of them moved in the world to do the work God had called them to do. Don't be stubborn--read the scripture Akira laid out for you. Read it slowly. Understand the words. Do you think Jesus would have prayed in John 17:15 "I am not asking you to take them out of the world but to protect them from the evil one."
Do you need more protection than the rest of us? Do you need sooo much that you have to run to the forest? Is it 'all those pesky other people and governments and society' that are evil and your heart and motives are pure as snow? If you think you need to go off the deep-end with some sort of ideological phariseeism, then Go. God will be there too. But don't think for a moment that this is an act of righteousness. I think it's an act of cowardice.
Akira is absolutely right...it's not the world that needs to change, it's not even the surroundings of YOUR personal world that need to change. It's the world inside YOU that needs to change. Unless God calls you specifically like John the Baptist and that naked prophet, then hang in here with the rest of us.
Shane.:
I think you have me all wrong.
I know I'm young and now I am feeling pretty foolish indeed for posting my age :)
I don't mean to sound high and mighty. I've just learned too much to ignore it all. I'm talking about the fact that, here in the United States of America, we import pretty much everything available on the shelves. Why? It can be made cheaper in other countries. Why can it be made cheaper? Because these specific countries lack labor laws allowing the creation of literal wage slaves. Children work for hours on end for as little as 50 cents an hour. Our lifestyles' are impossible without suffering throughout the world.
The change inside me is happening and my compassion swells for my neighbors all over the planet. I'm wondering, Dave, what exactly happens after this change inside occurs? How will they know us? By our love? That's what Christ said.
I just want to say that I did not come here to argue my point or win anyone over. In all honesty I came here to be proven wrong. My heart and mind is open.
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: Shane. on January 22, 2009, 02:16:30 AM ---I think you have me all wrong.
I know I'm young and now I am feeling pretty foolish indeed for posting my age :)
I don't mean to sound high and mighty. I've just learned too much to ignore it all. I'm talking about the fact that, here in the United States of America, we import pretty much everything available on the shelves. Why? It can be made cheaper in other countries. Why can it be made cheaper? Because these specific countries lack labor laws allowing the creation of literal wage slaves. Children work for hours on end for as little as 50 cents an hour. Our lifestyles' are impossible without suffering throughout the world.
The change inside me is happening and my compassion swells for my neighbors all over the planet. I'm wondering, Dave, what exactly happens after this change inside occurs? How will they know us? By our love? That's what Christ said.
I just want to say that I did not come here to argue my point or win anyone over. In all honesty I came here to be proven wrong. My heart and mind is open.
--- End quote ---
Why do you feel you are misunderstood instead of being corrected? If you feel that others 'have you all wrong' when and how can one try to correct and admonish you in the spirit?
This is nothing new to members who have been on this forum for more than a little while...a new member (and sometimes older) who feel they have figured it all out, ask others about their 'revelation' stating they are seeking correction and sound counsel, but then resist any and all spiritual truths on the matter.
Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun
Zeph 2:15 This is the rejoicing city that dwelt carelessly, that said in her heart, I am, and there is none beside me: how is she become a desolation, a place for beasts to lie down in! every one that passeth by her shall hiss, and wag his hand.
Rev. 18:7-8 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
2 Thess 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Shane (or any member for that matter), if you don't know who and what you are in these scriptures (and plenty more that Ray has taught on), then it doesn't matter what corner of the earth you run to or what other civilization you turn to...you will continue to worship the Beast and it's image.
Marques
Dave in Tenn:
I can't prove you wrong without getting into a long political discussion. I don't even think you're entirely wrong, so I'd have an even harder time trying to wrestle you away from 'the movement'. That's not the purpose of the forum, nor is it the purpose of my walk with Christ. All I can say is that this is a huge and hugely complex world. And that agendized 'factoids' do not automatically lead to truth. And a heart filled with compassion is not the same thing as hard-nosed, informed love. I've also learned you can't argue with an idealogue. You have to knock the -ism prism off their face before you're even on the same page--even in agreement.
You ask 'what exactly happens after this change occurs' like it happens overnight. Dude, it won't even happen before you graduate. ;D
Maybe that doesn't sound as exciting as a WTO demonstration, but its why God made you.
And pull your pants up, dagnabbit! :D
Mc_Can:
Hi there Shane,
Im relatively new to these truths also. I can empathize with your feelings of wanting to get away from it all. Ive felt this way at different points in my life as well. You seem to be struggling with the concept from two different perspectives. First, there is the growing immorality and second is the consumerism and gross consumption of western societies at the expense of slave labor in the third world.
Here is how I have come to terms with these feelings when they arise. Maybe this helps.
Big picture:
God is in total control and he loves and cares for all people. What this tells me is that all the wickedness and inequities throughout the history of the world have a good purpose. What this also tells me is that those living in wickedness, luxury and excess at the expense of others are likely to be judged by God in such a way that they learn humility, holiness, and develop a heart for others. Also, those who suffer in poverty and slave labor will be comforted by almighty God in such a way that there will be joy and no more tears. In light of the current suffering and inequity, it is a wonderful thing to look forward to God's judgements. There will be a time when all this is made right.
Practical application for me:
God doesnt want me to try to get away from the things of this world. I believe that learning to live in such a world, in a way that emulates Jesus, is judgement for the elect right now. The only way to live holy and upright in this world is to learn to die to the flesh. Have a problem with your sexual appetite?... its all around us... if you dont die to the flesh, you'll never overcome. Have alot of money and the cares associated with it?... if you dont learn to shun the love of money you will not overcome. Have a certain seemingly benign hobby like golf, poker, world of warcraft that has become an idol of the heart?... if you do not learn to rid yourself of these idols you will not overcome. In running to the hills or trying to remove ourselves from the society in which God has placed us, I believe most of us would be shunning the very circumstances God uses to judge us.
Finally beware of false guilt. God had you born into a modern family in the United States of America. He did not chose to have you born into a poor family in southeast asia. This probably means he intends to train you and use you right where you are. It is the spiritual that is real and lasting but God seems to teach us alot of spiritual lessons through physical circumstances. Learning to live in moderation in a society plagued with excess is sure to be a meaningful spiritual lesson. We have certain unique ways of being judged by God in modern day America than others born in different times and circumstances have had. Im sure there is purpose behind this. You might even view your comparably wealthy circumstances as a particularly difficult judgement of God. Jesus did not say "It is harder for a poor man to enter the kingdom of God than for a camel to go through the eye of the needle".
So it helps me to understand that God judges us spiritually through the things we experience in our everyday lives, and in the societies in which he has chosen for us to live. And if you think of our purpose here in a spiritual sense, being born in a wealthy country such as ours may be a greater challenge from a perspective of learning to die to the flesh then being born in "less fortunate" circumstances.
So this is how I deal with the urge to get away from it all. Hope it may help in some small way.
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