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Being Not of this World
Zer0ne:
Shane,
Having being blessed to have a brother in this world by the same name, I suppose I was drawn to this topic for my first response. And while not having such a deep understanding of the finer points, which I am sure have been presented here, or may well be brought to light at yet a later time; I will endeavor to do like unto Peter (Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk. Acts 3:6) and simply offer that which I have.
While skimming the prior responses to your inquiry, I did happen to note that there was mention that Ray would have us to do what Jesus would do.
So with that theme in mind, (WWJD) I will present a few more verses to shed some light on this subject.
John 8:12. Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
1 Peter 2:9. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvellous light;
John 17:14-26
14. I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21. That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23. I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Heh... let me chime in here and say... I don't think that sounds like a hell theory to me.. :)
John 3:16-21
16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
How is this represented in the world today?
Ephesians 4:12-16
12. For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13. Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14. That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15. But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16. From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
We are the Body of Christ...
If we are the Body of Christ, and we are still in the world, then there should still be light in the world....right?
Why are we to be light?
Matthew 5:14-16
14. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
24. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
To offer direction to the lost, and to edify the Body.
He is in us...
John 9:5. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
Philippians 2:12-16
12. Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
14. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
15. That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
16. Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.
We are to be His ambassadors here on earth until He returns, He will accomplish His plan with or without us, but what an honor to be of service to the King? There may be times in which a wilderness experience is needed... as He separates us and molds us more specifically for a given task without the interference usually found within the normal circles of society. Yet as someone earlier pointed out about the other people that were in the wilderness; It usually did not prove to be the place one would want to be, and even Jesus only stayed for 40 days. I believe like someone else mentioned... You were Born in America for a reason, what reason is that?.....To be of greater service to the King....you live in the land of opportunity... what greater example do you need... the current president is the son of an immigrant.... All things are possible to him who believes, especially if that believer also knows Who to believe in....While I don't consider myself associated with any particular denomination... I do agree with your notion that things in this age are starting to become Kingdom focused....The Kingdom of God was Jesus message... and is what we look forward to... why not be central to what He is doing in these last days...
Well, I have endeavored to offer mostly scripture, and comment as little as possible...as I know I am still learning myself...
I consider it an honor to have met such a fine group of believers :)
Keep your Focus on Serving the King!
Zer0ne
P.S.
One other thought after reading more into the topic...How could western civilization be the wine that all nations have partaken of, if in fact at the time this was written there was no way for any civilizations to be affected by a western civilization? Plus, I would like to think that whatever, this is referring to would have actually had the same impact on "ALL" nations from beginning to end... yet here in the end of time, once and for all there will be an end put to this atrocity. Just some food for thought. :)
Deborah-Leigh:
Hi Shane
Lets get right back down to basics.
Jesus did not pray to the Father to take us OUT of the world but that we may be protected by the evil one.
We are told in the Book of Revelations that if we OVERCOME we shall enjoy the rewards. What are we to overcome. We are to overcome the trials and temptations and tribulations that we suffer. We are not told to ESCAPE from such trials and tribulations but that such trials and tribulations are the WAY into the Kingdom of God.
Non can enter such a Kingdom by anything they can do without Christ. We all enter through the Endurance, Wisdom, Mercy, Pity, Faith and Passion OF CHRIST.
There is nothing you or I can DO. The doing is in the hands of the potter not the pot.
How long does this doing take?
A life time and then it still is not complete. The work of God we are told continues upon the Resurrection to life and until Christ submits all to God the Father including Himself.
You appear to me to be in the pain with struggling, seeking and not knowing the answers to your questions. I believe we here in this Forum can all identify with this part of the path to the deeper insights that only the Spirit of Christ can open to our hearts and minds. Your struggle appears to me like God is dragging you to His Son. Find some comfort in this.
All go against God's Will. This is the process through which God conforms us to the image of His Faithfull Obedient Son that is in line with His Plan and Purpose for all humanity. There is no quick fix. God's process is long suffering. Very long suffering to bring out the spotless image of His perfect Son that is promised to us. Paul says that for our MOMENTARY affliction, the consequence of glory far exceeds any suffering. Well do we all know that such words ring empty in the vortex and moment of suffering. That is why we have our brethren to encourage us with those same encouragements we received when we were in the furnace of affliction.
If you're not in the furnace of affliction to know the Truth and be settled in the insights of Christ, do not worry you will get there. All are appointed to the Lake of Fire. Non are too good for it either.
Arc.
Heidi:
Zer0ne....no better reply can anyone give that with the truth of the Word of God.
Shane, I pray that the Word that has gone forth will not return void in your life. Christ himself said "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." (John16:33)
What better place to learn to become overcomers that in this world and its warts and flaws...knowing in our hearts that "They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world" (John 17:16) We cannot remove ourselves from this world until Christ returns, we are the light of this world......let your light shine and remember that love conquers all.
Heidi
PS Welcome to the forum ZerOne.....and what an introduction! I look forward to getting to know you as we all seek to know the truth....."And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (John 8:32)
Stevernator:
I think that the poor can be much richer in a spiritual sense. Jesus warned that it is easier for a camel to pass through a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Those of us in affluent communities can be grateful for our abundance. However, it carries much more challenges and responsibilities in a sense. Since we may have so much luxury and physical comforts and temptations in the kingdom of western civilization it can be hard to enter the kingdom of heaven. Living an ascetic lifestyle in the wilderness or fasting may be good for a time if you need to get your spirit away from the temptations (think Jesus fasting in the desert). However we still live in the world and it is hard to be the salt of the earth and give to others if we are living off the grid.
Acts 20:35 "...ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive."
Proverbs 31:20 "She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy." (the virtuous woman)
Proverbs 30:8
Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:
Work brings profit, but mere talk leads to poverty! - Proverbs 14:23
These are my thoughts correct me if I am wrong.
-Steve
Edit: Many of the moderately poor people are probably happier than rich people.
Stevernator:
--- Quote from: Stevernator on January 25, 2009, 04:30:31 PM ---I think that the poor can be much richer in a spiritual sense. Jesus warned that it is easier for a camel to pass through a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Those of us in affluent communities can be grateful for our abundance. However, it carries much more challenges and responsibilities in a sense. Since we may have so much luxury and physical comforts and temptations in the kingdom of western civilization it can be hard to enter the kingdom of heaven. Living an ascetic lifestyle in the wilderness or fasting may be good for a time if you need to get your spirit away from the temptations (think Jesus fasting in the desert). However we still live in the world and it is hard to be the salt of the earth and give to others if we are living off the grid.
Acts 20:35 "...ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive."
Proverbs 31:20 "She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy." (the virtuous woman)
Proverbs 30:8
Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:
Work brings profit, but mere talk leads to poverty! - Proverbs 14:23
These are my thoughts correct me if I am wrong.
-Steve
Edit: Many of the moderately poor people who have their needs met (not desitute) are probably happier than rich people.
--- End quote ---
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