I have a question that goes along with this study that Daywalker has started in this thread. Hope no one minds me tossing it out there:
I have had a dear person present to me a scripture that they believe proves we do not stay in the grave.
John 11:23-26 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I AM the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Mat 22:29-32 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
I'm not knowledgeable yet to respond to this. Still studying....Your responses and insights will be appreciated and hope to add to everyones understand on this.
Brenda
Hi Brenda,
Below I copied a response regarding the Physical resurrection and the Spiritual from one
of Ray's Transcripts that should help you. The passage you mentioned at Matt. Chp. 22
that God is the God of the living, not the dead shows that even though everyone dies
and goes to Sheol/Hades, like Abraham, Isacc and Jacob and are dead, the hope of the
Ressurection is a certainty, so to God they are alive to him, a guarantee. John chapter
11 mentioned above says " they shall live ", sounds like future tense. Lazarus was physically
Resurrected, but eventually died again and is still in Sheol to this day. See 1 Corinthians chapter
15:15-28. Read this Article by Ray listed below.
PHYSICAL or SPIRITUAL RESURRECTION BODIES FOR THE WICKED & NON-BELIEVERS?
« on: June 14, 2008, 01:40:06 PM »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PHYSICAL or SPIRITUAL RESURRECTION BODIES FOR THE WICKED & NON-BELIEVERS?
This is a rather involved study that I have only a short time to touch upon at this time. I realize that this will probably (as always) raise even more questions in other areas. Please don’t try to speculate yourself in unscriptural solutions to these potential mysteries. I must stay focused on those studies which I deem most import for our site at this time, and don’t have the time to be side-tracked too often.
There are few places in the Old Testament where a resurrection of dead people are mentioned or alluded to. Jesus stated that the declaration, “Now concerning the resurrection of the dead, did you not read that which is declared to you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead but of the living” (Matt. 22:31).
This statement proves that if God is the “God of the living,” but Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are dead when Jesus mentions them, then there has got to be a resurrection of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
The major prophecy concerning the resurrection is found in Ezek. 37. Here we are shown a valley of “dry bones” which God says represents “the WHOLE House of Israel” -- “And He said unto me, `Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel; lo, they are saying: Dried up have our bones, And perished has our hope, We have been cut off by ourselves” (Ezek. 37:11).
So the whole House of Israel dies in a condition of being “perished” with no “hope,” and are “cut off.” But what does God tell Ezekiel He will do for them?
I am prophesying, and lo, a rushing, and draw near do the bones, bone unto its bone."
Eze 37:8 “And I beheld, and lo, on them [are] sinews [tendons, strength, muscular power], and flesh [muscles, fat, etc.] has come up, and cover them does skin [the outer covering of a physical body] over above--and spirit there is none in them."
I know of no “spiritual” tendons, muscles, fat or skin, that are put on physical “bones” to remake a “spiritual” man. This is a PHYSICAL resurrection of the dead, Eze 37:10 “And I have prophesied as He commanded me, and the Spirit comes into them, and they live, and stand on their feet--a very very great force” (Ezek. 37:10).
Notice that it takes the spirit from God to give these dried bones life once more. They then “stand on their feet.” This is the exact and precise definition of the word “resurrection.” It means to “stand up” upon one’s feet, but the word itself has nothing to do with being “spiritual” or “immortal” whatsoever. Jesus raised a little girl and Lazarus from the dead, and they stood up on their feet and lived—they were not made spiritual bodies or given immortality. Likewise those saints resurrected at Christ’s resurrection, were not given spiritual bodies or immortality.
Nowhere are the wicked promised immortality or incorruption, nowhere. The most thorough study on the resurrection of the saints is found in I Corinthians. Let’s notice a few things that most overlook:
Is the subject of I Corinthians 15, the world? The salvation of the wicked? The resurrection of the wicked? NO. Let’s read it:
“Moreover, brethren [the world? NO, ‘brethren’] I declare unto YOU the gospel…” (I Cor. 15:1).
“…by which also YOU are saved…” (Verse 2).
“For I delivered unto YOU….” (Verse 3). Etc.
What is the “order” of the resurrection of which Paul speaks? “But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward THEY THAT ARE CHRIST’S at His coming” (Verse 23).
The resurrection taught in this chapter is that of “they that are CHRIST’S,” not the resurrection of the wicked to Judgment. Pay attention TO THE WORDS!
1Co 15:50 “Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
Chapter 15 is speaking of the true Elect Saints of God “inheriting the Kingdom of God. Is the act of raising the wicked from the dead and act of their “inheriting the Kingdom of God?” I think not. Will the wicked then “inherit incorruption” at their resurrection? Well many say “YES, yes they will.” NO, no they WON’T! Are men like Mao Tse Tung, Adolph Hitler and Saddam Hussein, who are among the most “corruptible” men who have ever lived, going to be given bodies that are “incorruptible?” Do the Scriptures lie when they tell us that “corruption” (as in the above named persons) does NOT “inherit incorruption?”
We are told that a seed must die to give life to a new seed, or grain, or body (Verse 36).
What KIND of new seed comes about from planting a seed that first must die? 1Co 15:37 “And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain”
Are we told what the “other” grain might be that sprouts like “wheat?” Yes, as a matter of fact, we are: Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
And are these “tares” also gathered into the barns (brought into the Kingdom of God)? NO, Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest [resurrection] I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles [different ‘groups’ at different ‘burnings’?] to burn them [in the Lake of Fire]: but gather the wheat into my barn [My KINGDOM].
NO, in the day of harvest, not all will come up “immortal and incorruptible.”
What else do we learn about the resurrection of God’s Elect? What are some of the features of their newly resurrected bodies?
“…but the glory of the celestial [high, above, heavenly] is one, and the glory of the terrestrial [worldly, EARTHLY] is another” (Verse 40).
Which category do the Elect come in? Now pay attention: 1Co 15:48-49 As is the earthy, such ARE they also that ARE earthy: and as is the heavenly, such ARE they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, WE SHALL also bear the image of the heavenly.
Notice that ONLY “we” [God’s Elect], not “they,” “…shall bear the image of the heavenly.” Paul is speaking that “THEY, the earthy,” and “WE, the heavenly,” and only the “we” will “bear the image of the heavenly,” not “they,” the wicked who will be raised as tares to be burned in the Lake of Fire.
Now we can understand verse 50 in proper context: Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption [corrupt men like Mao Tse Tung, Adolph Hitler, and Saddam Hussein] inherit incorruption.
The ONLY ones who inherit incorruption are those “WE [who] have borne the image of the earthly [and] shall bear the image of the heavenly.” And this happens at a specific time:
1Co 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory” (I Cor. 15:51-54).
It is the “we” and the “us” that will be changed at the last trump, not the “they” and the “them.”
Should Mao, Adolph, and Saddam be resurrected to incorruptible and immortal bodies, then death would also be “swallowed up in victory” in THEIR LIVES ALSO. How could they go through the “second DEATH” if “death” would have already been “swallowed up in VICTORY” in their miserable, wicked, vile, and deranged carnal minds? Such people know nothing of “the law of the Spirit of LIFE in Christ Jesus.” They know only of “law of SIN AND DEATH” (Rom. 8:2).
Notice these verses describing the resurrection of God’s elect:
1Co 15:42-45 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in INCORRUPTION: It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in GLORY: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in POWER: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a SPIRITUAL body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
INCORRUPTION: Strong’s #861, aphtharsia, “from #862 [un-decaying]; incorruptibility; generally unending existence; (figuratively) genuineness: immortality, incorruption, sincerity.”
Note: INCORRUPTIBILITY, UNENDING EXISTENCE, GENUINENESS, IMMORTALITY, INCORRUPTION, SINCERITY
GLORY: Strong’s #1391, doxa, G1391 From the base of G1380; glory (as very apparent), in a wide application (literally or figuratively, objectively or subjectively): - dignity, glory (-ious), honor, praise, worship.
Note: GLORY (AS VERY APPARENT GLORY), DIGNITY, GLORY, GLORIOUS, HONOR, PRAISE, WORSHIP
POWER: Strong’s #1411, dunamis, From G1410; “force (literally or figuratively); specifically miraculous power (usually by implication a miracle itself): - ability, abundance, meaning, might (-ily, -y, -y deed), (worker of) miracle (-s), power, strength, violence, mighty (wonderful) work.”
Note: FORCE, MIRACULOUS POWER, ABILITY, ABUNDANCE, MIGHT, MIGHTY, WORKIER OF MIRACLES, POWER, STRENGTH, (‘violence’ only when referencing an carnal person), MIGHTY (wonderful) WORK
SPIRITUAL: Strong’s #4152, pneumatikos From G4151; “non-carnal, that is, (humanly) ethereal (as opposed to gross), or (daemoniacally) a spirit (concretely), or (divinely) supernatural, regenerate, religious: - spiritual.
Note: NON-CARNAL ETHEREAL (as opposed to gross or daemoniacally) SPIRIT, DIVINELY, SUPER NATURAL, REGENERATE, RELIGIOUS, SPIRITUAL
Now let’s foolishly assume that the wicked are going to be resurrected with “spiritual” bodies. The only place in Scripture that anyone is said to be resurrected with a “spiritual body,” is in these many references in I Cor. 15. So if a resurrected “spiritual body” applies to the unjust and the wicked and the unbelievers, then these attributes which constitute a “spiritual body” resurrection MUST APPLY TO THEM ALSO. Now then, show me one Scripture anywhere that justifies people like Mao Tse Tung, Adolph Hitler, or Saddam Hussein being resurrected with:
INCORRUPTIBILITY, UNENDING EXISTENCE, GENUINENESS, IMMORTALITY, INCORRUPTION, SINCERITY, GLORY (AS VERY APPARENT GLORY), DIGNITY, GLORY, GLORIOUS, HONOR, PRAISE, WORSHIP, FORCE, MIRACULOUS POWER, ABILITY, ABUNDANCE, MIGHT, MIGHTY, WORKER OF MIRACLES, POWER, STRENGTH, (‘violence’ only when referencing an carnal person), MIGHTY (wonderful) WORK, NON-CARNAL, ETHEREAL, SPIRIT, DIVINELY, SUPER NATURAL, REGENERATE, RELIGIOUS, SPIRITUAL
Is there anywhere a Scripture that presents the resurrection of the wicked in such a glorious, and holy, divine light? I think not. Rather we are presented with this as the characterization of the resurrected wicked to eonian judgment:
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting [eonian] life, and some to shame [rebuke, reproach, disgrace] and everlasting [eonian] contempt [repulsion, aversion, abhorrence].
Is it possible to have a greater contradiction of character traits than this? No, those who are spared death at the conclusion of this eon and will live on into the reign of Jesus Christ with their physical bodies, will not be outdone by the wicked who are raised from their graves. There will not be two communities of non-believers being judged—one in physical bodies, and those among the worst of humanity that have ever lived, being in beautiful, glorious, powerful, incorruptible, SPIRITUAL bodies. It’s unscriptural nonsense as far as I can see. Hope this helps your understanding a little better.
God be with you,
Ray
Hope this helps, Samson.
Re: PHYSICAL
Author
Topic: Did Jesus Preach in Hades? (Read 19733 times)