Submitting to the Pastors Idols of the heart

[daywalker]

"Your concerns have led you on a long journey.........and you do not wish to be persuaded, so I won't try.  To take your position negates the reason for Christs coming.  How sad."

Negates the reason for Christs coming? Why did Christ come again?

I John 4:14: And we have seen and DO TESTIFY that the Father sent the Son TO BE THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD

Oh, that's why! Is this what 'Pastor' testifies? Poppycock!

Now, that's SAD!


- Daywalker

Daywalker, Yes the Pastor just had to put that last little comment in to finish things off between me and him, didn't he?
As if his showing me of his strength of sticking to his guns might impress me.  Well he doesn't impress me by doing that.

Saladking

Everyone should be quick to listen, sssslllllooooooowwwwwww to speak and sssssllllllooooowwwwww to become angry,[James 1:19, Emphasis mine  ]

If Pastors and Theologians and Christians in general were to practice a little more of this, then maybe [MAYBE] they just might "hear".

Instead they're quick to 'draw the sword'!


- Daywalker.

[Ninny]

Phil3:10,
You said it right! Look who we study under! A plain old roofer!  Let's see, uhhh, the disciples- tent makers, fishermen, WHAT?? Common Laborers?? Roughnecks?  Tax collectors? Not a degree in the bunch? No one of any importance? When it came down to Paul from whom we all learn,  his only claim to fame was persecution? A big bully who was brought low when Jesus showed him how really unimportant he was? Hmmm...

Where did "reverends, pastors, priests, etc." get the idea that they are so holy and high and mighty, they think that they are standing in God's place on this earth! It is because they are taught that in seminary!! Note: Seminary must be what God gave to satan to teach delusion! I finally understand!!!
( don't mean to sound flippant!)
Correct me if I'm wrong,
Kathy

[LiberatedEagle]

Hello SaladKing,

Wow, I admire the fact that you responded to the Pastor's  question in that manner initially. I can so relate to you and your agitation when it comes to Pharisees polluting the minds of the people today. I hope that God favors us to fight on the frontline together. Your awesome Saladking because "Greater is he that is in you than He that is in the world"

[saladking]

Hello SaladKing,

Wow, I admire the fact that you responded to the Pastor's  question in that manner initially. I can so relate to you and your agitation when it comes to Pharisees polluting the minds of the people today. I hope that God favors us to fight on the frontline together. Your awesome Saladking because "Greater is he that is in you than He that is in the world"

Thankyou for that LiberatedEagle.  In hindsight, I think it would have been best if I walked away straight after I handed it in to the Pastor.  At that point would have been idea to have left the church.  God knows best though.  He knows that everything happened exactly according to plan

Saladking

[Agapelove]

I wish there was a pastor out there who didn't think he was always right, no matter what, so when a fellow Christian expressed a new truth to him, he would simply say "thanks, I will study and pray about that" and see if God shows me the same as what you are telling me.  They are all closed-minded to even considering a new way of thinking.  Best to stay away from them and be thankful for what God shows us.   

[Ninny]

I know some pastors who are sincere, and humble. Most of them are very "authoritative" you know they are "ordained" They stand up and beat the pulpit, hold up their Bibles and walk back and forth across the "stage" all in an air of, "watch me now, listen to me very carefully, this is your ticket to freedom." I wish you COULD find one that would say, "let me read this, I need to pray about this and see if it is right." Nope, cause they already KNOW everything!
Kathy

[smeacham]

Unless we become humble, we'll never truly "get it."  Of course, if we are prideful, we'll be very convinced that we DO "get it."  It's not just the Pastors - this applies to everyone.  I just think that Pastoring tends to attract the prideful, and certainly can make one prideful, too.

Steve

[WhoAmI]

I actually believe we are all well-equipped to confront these Babylonian pastors.  The problem is, they are not equipped to listen or believe.  It doesn't matter how many obvious and clear scriptures we can present that show that God does not lie, God's word does not lie, God's word does not contradict, God is forming us in His image, Evil is necessary and by design, God will save the whole world, Hell is a doctrine of evil men, etc.  We can do this perfectly, but still not convince them, not because of us our our presentation.  It's because God has sealed their eyes and ears.

I know this to be true now, through my own experience.  When I was showing these things to the Jehovah's Witnesses, I do not believe I did a poor job.  I showed and expounded on the right scriptures.  I was well prepared.  I had the skill and experience of being a minister myself.  I did not stutter or shake.  I spoke with confidence and conviction.  I had rebuttals for every "contradictory" scripture they could produce.  None of it mattered.  They could not accept or believe it.

Steve

So true Steve! Only those to whom it has been given, shall receive...

I am reading again Ray's article "Twelve Truths to Understanding His Word" [I think I started to awhile back, but never finished...], and the part about the "Two or Three Witnesses" of Scripture I believe is the strongest Truth to use when speaking with someone, especially a Pastor or someone of 'higher' learning in Church Doctrines.

The next time someone tells me, "The Bible says 'this'..", my immediate response will be, "Oh yeah? Show me TWO SCRIPTURES which support what you just said."

"Those who reject Jesus will go to Hell" Show me TWO Scriptures!
"People must choose Jesus on their own? Show me TWO Scriptures! .. Cuz I got TWO that say YOU CAN'T [Actually I got more  ]


Anyways, May God continue to bless all of us with more Wisdom and Spirit and Truth,

Daywalker.

Hey Daywalker,

  You can give them whole books to read, like Exodus and you will see God's plan in it, the whole message never warns about a "hell" or "endless torture."

Were Adam and Eve warned? Cain or Abel? Noah and the people who encountered the flood? I'm not sure why for so long and all the time I spent reading the Bible did I miss all that..LOL Oh well thanks God for using Ray to point it out. :-)

[saladking]

I wish there was a pastor out there who didn't think he was always right, no matter what, so when a fellow Christian expressed a new truth to him, he would simply say "thanks, I will study and pray about that" and see if God shows me the same as what you are telling me.  They are all closed-minded to even considering a new way of thinking.  Best to stay away from them and be thankful for what God shows us.   

Exactly Agapelove, You couldn't have said that better.
That was exactly what I wished and expected when I first discovered UR.  Boy what a shock I got when I discovered such closed-mindedness.

Saladking

[smeacham]

Hey Daywalker,

  You can give them whole books to read, like Exodus and you will see God's plan in it, the whole message never warns about a "hell" or "endless torture."

Were Adam and Eve warned? Cain or Abel? Noah and the people who encountered the flood? I'm not sure why for so long and all the time I spent reading the Bible did I miss all that..LOL Oh well thanks God for using Ray to point it out. :-)

That is SO TRUE!  I can turn anywhere in the Bible now and see it plain as day.  God's in control.  He makes all things happen.  Mankind is weak.  God judges us in order to purify us.  It's THERE!  For example, I just read Job in the last couple of days.  CHOCK FULL OF IT.

Like you, even though I know why (I wasn't humble enough for God to show me yet), I still marvel that I never saw it before.

Steve

[daywalker]

Hey Daywalker,

  You can give them whole books to read, like Exodus and you will see God's plan in it, the whole message never warns about a "hell" or "endless torture."

Were Adam and Eve warned? Cain or Abel? Noah and the people who encountered the flood? I'm not sure why for so long and all the time I spent reading the Bible did I miss all that..LOL Oh well thanks God for using Ray to point it out. :-)

That is SO TRUE!  I can turn anywhere in the Bible now and see it plain as day.  God's in control.  He makes all things happen.  Mankind is weak.  God judges us in order to purify us.  It's THERE!  For example, I just read Job in the last couple of days.  CHOCK FULL OF IT.

Like you, even though I know why (I wasn't humble enough for God to show me yet), I still marvel that I never saw it before.

Steve

I second that "SO TRUE". Even if Jesus manifested Himself and told them the Truth, these most stubborn people would cast Him out of their 'synagogue' without hesitation...

Every time I open the Scriptures to read now, it's a whole new book! [opposed to my pre-bibletruths eon]

And now that I'm getting more familiar with using e-Sword and The SWORD Project [special "shout out" to george for getting me a few updates I wasn't aware of], it's amazing the things I am finding in God's Word!! Being able to compare translations, look up Hebrew/Greek words, and find verses with only a few mouse clicks vs. thumbing through multiple Bibles/books is so much more efficient and easy.


"'I'm Lovin' it!"

- Daywalker

[smeacham]

I've used e-Sword too, but I've come to favor http://www.blb.org/.  It has many of the same capabilities, and even better (in my opinion) greek and hebrew look-ups.

Steve

[aqrinc]

Daywalker,

Something we must All remember; we were just as deceived as the ones still in Babylon.
But for GOD'S Grace there we would still be. So we must do all we can to Edify and Show
why we now believe what we profess. Ray has been fashioned By GOD to be our Teacher.
We Give Glory To GOD And Our Lord Jesus Christ; when we use the Scriptures given to us
to build up one who is weak or foundering.

Act 20:35 
I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember
the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

Php 2:13 
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Heb 3:13 
But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through
the deceitfulness of sin.

george.

[charrie]

Hello, Everyone

This is an excellent thread.  I thought I was alone in not being able to communicate to others, just yet, why I believe.  Oh, I know in my heart the truth but I get nervous, and start to sweat too because I don't know if I will be able to say the right words and perhaps also fearful of being verbally attacked.  People might think me crazy!! All the reactions are expected which might be the reason for the nervousness and sweating

But one thing, for sure, I have come to realize...I MUST study, I MUST prepare myself.  My desire is to please The Father in this alone and no one else.   I figure, since HE can use an a s s, surely I might be suitable for something, you think

Thank you, Saladking, for sharing..and thank everyone else for sharing as well.

Charrie

[daywalker]

Daywalker,

Something we must All remember; we were just as deceived as the ones still in Babylon.
But for GOD'S Grace there we would still be. So we must do all we can to Edify and Show
why we now believe what we profess. Ray has been fashioned By GOD to be our Teacher.
We Give Glory To GOD And Our Lord Jesus Christ; when we use the Scriptures given to us
to build up one who is weak or foundering.

Act 20:35 
I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember
the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

Php 2:13 
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Heb 3:13 
But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through
the deceitfulness of sin.

george.

Amen, george!

[God-willing...] I'll never forget that He lead me out of Babylon, and it was not of myself.

- Daywalker

[saladking]

Yes charrie, I think that we both feel what is referred to as Social anxiety.
Thankyou everyone for all your responses.
It is encouraging to share this experience with people that are supportive.

This experience is by no means the worst that I have encountered over the years, but it has been the last straw that has caused me to leave the Church.  I carried this last experience for two years hoping that time would reduce my aggitation.  It kept coming back on me and it became clear that it was not going to go away.  My aggitation increased just prior to Christmas and that is what motivated me to send that last letter to the pastor to at least let him know that I know the Truth.
Like Falcoon003 said about saying to the Lord, "Forgive them Father for they don't know what they are doing." It gives me the thought that maybe when these people hear the word that they are forgiven, they will carry their shame and eonian contempt for a very long time.

It is tormenting to be the only one to see these truths, and have everyone around you against you and speaking up for the persecutors, and standing up for them that blaspheme God.
I found too that I was sick of hearing the leaders of the Church that I attended subtlely boasting of how they came out on top in a confrontation with another blind Christian with a different oppinion to them.  What a dreadful mistake they have made to crush me, who is actually speaking the truth.

Saladking

[aqrinc]

We must remember; It Is GOD WHO IS Doing all this, there is no place for (me) in this battle.
GOD IS using the foolishness of Preaching and the Weak (us) to DO OF HIS GOOD PLEASURE.
If we are crushed; we are crushed for HIS GLORY; so none should take offense. As Paul said, when
our affliction is great; we know that we are being perfected BY HIM (GOD). (I have Scripture for that)

Job 32:11-13 
11-Behold, I waited for your words; I listened to your reasons while you searched out words;
12-yea, I paid attention to you, and behold, not one of you proved Job wrong, nor answered his sayings;
13-that you not say, We have discovered wisdom. It is God who will scatter him, not man.

Job 36:15 
He delivers the afflicted by his affliction, and He opens their ears by oppression.

Job 37:23-24 
23-We cannot find Him, the Almighty; He is exalted in power; and He does not violate justice and abundant righteousness.
24-So, men, fear Him; He does not see any who are wise of heart.

Psa 18:32 
It is God who girds me with strength and gives my way to be perfect;

Isa 42:6-8
6- I, Jehovah, have called You in righteousness, and will hold Your hand, and will keep You,
and give You for a covenant of the people, for a Light of the nations;
7-to open blind eyes, to lead out the prisoner from the prison; those who sit in darkness from the prison.
8-I am Jehovah; that is My name; and I will not give My glory to another, nor My praise to engraved images.

2Co 4:6 
Because it is God who said, "Out of darkness Light shall shine," who shone in our hearts to give the
brightness of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Isa. 42:6, 7, 16

Php 2:13 
for it is God who is working in you both to will and to work for the sake of His good pleasure.

george.

[Phil3:10]

George and all,
I just read your last reply and want to second same. It is only GOD, HE is in total control and HIS will will be accomplished.
Praise HIS HOLY NAME and thank HIM always for HIS PERFECT SON.
In HIM.
Phil3:10

[Ninny]

George, Thank you for that post! I needed those words at this very moment!
Love,
Kathy

[charrie]

Yes, thank you All

You are all a blessing in reminding Father Is In Control!!!

Thank Yehweh


Charrie