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Submitting to the Pastors Idols of the heart
Ninny:
I know some pastors who are sincere, and humble. Most of them are very "authoritative" you know they are "ordained" They stand up and beat the pulpit, hold up their Bibles and walk back and forth across the "stage" all in an air of, "watch me now, listen to me very carefully, this is your ticket to freedom." I wish you COULD find one that would say, "let me read this, I need to pray about this and see if it is right." Nope, cause they already KNOW everything!
Kathy ;)
smeacham:
Unless we become humble, we'll never truly "get it." Of course, if we are prideful, we'll be very convinced that we DO "get it." It's not just the Pastors - this applies to everyone. I just think that Pastoring tends to attract the prideful, and certainly can make one prideful, too.
Steve
WhoAmI:
--- Quote from: daywalker on January 28, 2009, 06:58:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: Steve Meacham on January 28, 2009, 03:32:52 PM ---I actually believe we are all well-equipped to confront these Babylonian pastors. The problem is, they are not equipped to listen or believe. It doesn't matter how many obvious and clear scriptures we can present that show that God does not lie, God's word does not lie, God's word does not contradict, God is forming us in His image, Evil is necessary and by design, God will save the whole world, Hell is a doctrine of evil men, etc. We can do this perfectly, but still not convince them, not because of us our our presentation. It's because God has sealed their eyes and ears.
I know this to be true now, through my own experience. When I was showing these things to the Jehovah's Witnesses, I do not believe I did a poor job. I showed and expounded on the right scriptures. I was well prepared. I had the skill and experience of being a minister myself. I did not stutter or shake. I spoke with confidence and conviction. I had rebuttals for every "contradictory" scripture they could produce. None of it mattered. They could not accept or believe it.
Steve
--- End quote ---
So true Steve! Only those to whom it has been given, shall receive...
I am reading again Ray's article "Twelve Truths to Understanding His Word" [I think I started to awhile back, but never finished...], and the part about the "Two or Three Witnesses" of Scripture I believe is the strongest Truth to use when speaking with someone, especially a Pastor or someone of 'higher' learning in Church Doctrines.
The next time someone tells me, "The Bible says 'this'..", my immediate response will be, "Oh yeah? Show me TWO SCRIPTURES which support what you just said."
"Those who reject Jesus will go to Hell" Show me TWO Scriptures!
"People must choose Jesus on their own? Show me TWO Scriptures! .. Cuz I got TWO that say YOU CAN'T [Actually I got more :D]
Anyways, May God continue to bless all of us with more Wisdom and Spirit and Truth,
Daywalker.
--- End quote ---
Hey Daywalker,
You can give them whole books to read, like Exodus and you will see God's plan in it, the whole message never warns about a "hell" or "endless torture."
Were Adam and Eve warned? Cain or Abel? Noah and the people who encountered the flood? I'm not sure why for so long and all the time I spent reading the Bible did I miss all that..LOL Oh well thanks God for using Ray to point it out. :-)
saladking:
--- Quote from: Agapelove on January 30, 2009, 10:04:14 AM ---I wish there was a pastor out there who didn't think he was always right, no matter what, so when a fellow Christian expressed a new truth to him, he would simply say "thanks, I will study and pray about that" and see if God shows me the same as what you are telling me. They are all closed-minded to even considering a new way of thinking. ??? Best to stay away from them and be thankful for what God shows us. ;D
--- End quote ---
Exactly Agapelove, You couldn't have said that better.
That was exactly what I wished and expected when I first discovered UR. Boy what a shock I got when I discovered such closed-mindedness.
Saladking 8)
smeacham:
--- Quote from: WhoAmI on January 30, 2009, 12:58:53 PM ---Hey Daywalker,
You can give them whole books to read, like Exodus and you will see God's plan in it, the whole message never warns about a "hell" or "endless torture."
Were Adam and Eve warned? Cain or Abel? Noah and the people who encountered the flood? I'm not sure why for so long and all the time I spent reading the Bible did I miss all that..LOL Oh well thanks God for using Ray to point it out. :-)
--- End quote ---
That is SO TRUE! I can turn anywhere in the Bible now and see it plain as day. God's in control. He makes all things happen. Mankind is weak. God judges us in order to purify us. It's THERE! For example, I just read Job in the last couple of days. CHOCK FULL OF IT.
Like you, even though I know why (I wasn't humble enough for God to show me yet), I still marvel that I never saw it before.
Steve
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