> General Discussions
Lust and Marriage
WhoAmI:
Since people get married for many reasons, money, they think they are in "love", etc If someone then gets married, are they now free to lust and fulfill that lust with that person they married? I ask because I don't get the idea that if people are married then it is ok to have sex. But if they are not married then it is supposedly fornication. How does being in a legal binding override a spiritual concept? We are told not to lust or even to think it, but we know many couples have sex over carnal feelings. One couple may be in a higher love than another but not married, where as another couple is married to just help each other out financially but they get the benefits of avoiding sin even when commandment is broken? What are your thoughts.
aqrinc:
WhoAmi,
Have you read this paper by Ray yet or listened to the Audio, it answers most if
not all the questions you have posed.
george.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5675.msg45929.html#msg45929
Excerpt from: Feb. 2007 Bible Study
WHAT IS MARRIAGE?
[Is a License and a Ceremony Required?]
I’m going to talk about what constitutes marriage, not the marriage state of how to have a happy marriage, that’s a subject for another Bible study. But we are going to talk about specifically, in detail, what is marriage.
Can you just marry yourself? Just say, ‘well we live together and I kind of think of you as my wife. And she says, yea I kind of think of you as my husband. So I guess we’re married. We don’t need a piece of paper. What’s a piece of paper? People who get pieces of paper get divorces and that’s nothing. We love each other and we are more married than they are married.’
Sounds good? There’s not much truth to it though and I will talk about it.
What is marriage? Is a license and a ceremony required? I want somebody to give me some idea of what marriage is. What is the meaning of the word?
[Two people living together, sharing their lives] No.
[ A union, created by God] Closer.
[A mutual commitment] No, partly, but no.
It is not what most people think and people will be dumb founded when they find out what the Bible has to say about marriage. I’m going to give you a little secret, the marriage state, that is the institution of two people being married together, sharing their lives together, living in a home producing children, so on and so forth, of that the Bible has virtually nothing to say. Yet the word marriage or marry is in there over and over and over and over……but not the things I just said.
[Is it two flesh becoming one flesh] No, not even close. You would think so though, wouldn’t you. Isn’t that part of it? I mean Christ Himself said that, right. It’s part of it, but it does not fit the definition of marriage though, at all. Not even at all.
[A contract] Now we are getting closer. A contract. Marriage is a contract.
Now maybe a more important question would be, is love required to make a marriage? [No] Right on, no. Love does not even enter into the definition of a marriage. It does not. Proof……how many arranged marriages have been in the world? Millions. Do most of them when they get an arranged marriage, love each other? They don’t even know each other.
Does sexual union have to be involved, in the definition of a marriage? [Unless it is consummated, you can annul it, right?] How long do you have to do that? Two years, eight years? Now we are putting time limits on it.
Sex and love has nothing to do with the definition of marriage. Nothing to do with it and I’m going to prove it to you. So What is marriage? We are going to find out. Get ready for a revelation, because this may not all be what you think it is.
I received an email it contains that this person is living with this person and it says, ‘we’re married.’ Here’s what he says:
“I can’t believe you would call that sinful living.
Maybe Babylon is right; we do need to have a physical circumcision and a physical water baptism and a physical wedding ritual etc… etc… etc… everything’s physical, it’s all physical. Perhaps even God’s law is physical and it matters not whether you truly love your wife or not, as long as you got that physical marriage license, you’re good to go. And there is no ‘law of the land’ that says it’s illegal for two people to live together without having a marriage license.” (Ray’s comment - Is there a law that says you can’t do that? That sounds good, I mean the guy is spouting off all this worldly wisdom. Of course I have a little statement in my notes here too: Likewise there’s no ‘law of the land’ that says when two people live together that they are LEGALLY husband and wife, either, is there. [What about common law?] It doesn’t, you can claim it sometimes, but the powers that be do not make you husband and wife. They do not.). “Maybe in the dark ages, and OT but not now, not in the U.S. nor Europe or any other civilized society. Perhaps in the middle east, but they’re still physically stoning people. So I wouldn’t want to follow that ‘law of the land’.”
“God declared who is man and wife, not some magistrate or a piece of paper.” (Ray’s comment - sounds good, I mean he’s just really nailing it, isn’t he? Wrong pale face. Are magistrates and pieces of paper worthless and ungodly? It sounds like it from his perspective that they are.) “I know Adam and Eve were husband and wife, that’s why I used them as an example of how you can be married in God’s eyes under God’s Spiritual law without having a physical wedding ritual.”
Oh really. And he knows for a fact that Adam and Eve had no wedding? He knows that for a fact?
george. ;D
Heidi:
Falling in love is a natural process but with this there is also a falling out of love. Once a person decides to love someone, i.e. saying "I love you".....you are committing yourself to having to work at the relationship. It is a commitment.
Lusting after someone is completely different from loving someone or being "in love". The bible is very clear on this.....
James 1:15 "Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death."
and again
1 John 2:16 "For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world."
When two people get married, they become one....
Matt 19:6 "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."
and again....Mark 10:8 "AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh."
Just my opinion
Heidi
WhoAmI:
If falling in love is a natural process then lust is involved. Desires of flesh do bring people together. They may end up loving each other but still it is involved. And the word "love" is so over used. Can a mortal actually love to the degree that we like to dream of. Humans are selfish and desire driven creatures. Love can't be measured by a time span or a marriage cermony. Just as it can't be discounted because of lack of time or no marriage cermony. In human terms that is. Man doesn't operate on his own and is subject to outside forces. The two become one is spiritual and that is what I have come to the conclusion that all this marriage, fornication, adultery, divorce is about. The highest it being about our oneness with God. All the scriptures of fornication, adultery which are dealing with things that can't have physical sex show me that they are spiritual. If I can truely love then I think I would operate properly in the physical sense as well. Where as you can do everything like Saul with great zeal and live by rules and yet be no where spiritually.
I am glad Ray has written some about it. He thinks and it challenges us and religion to take another look.
aqrinc:
Heidi, WhoAmi,
This is a good time to read this paper before coming to a conclusion.
Another excerpt from: WHAT IS MARRIAGE?
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5675.msg45929.html#msg45929
But all civilized cultures have that and it is an ordained institution of God supported in both the Old and New Testaments. And although ordained of God, marriage is more physical than spiritual, from a scriptural point of view. Boy I can see the stones coming for saying that, but it’s true. We’re talking about the definition of the word, what the word actually means. If marriage was a spiritual institution, instead of a carnal institution. Why do 50% of those getting married divorce? What is spiritual about that? If all the people got married into a spiritual relationship, there would hardly ever be a divorce. But it’s not. People go into marriage with a carnal mind, with physical expectations.
Now most couples who get married do love each other, I’m not saying they don’t, I’m just saying it’s not a spiritual union. They love each other and they have sex together, but the truth of the matter is neither one is required to define what a marriage is, neither one. Just because your married to someone doesn’t mean that you love them, right. Does anybody agree with that? It doesn’t mean you love them just because you are married and just because you love somebody doesn’t mean your married to them, am I also right.
george. :)
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