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Author Topic: A point regardding the suffering that God causes.  (Read 7525 times)

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Marky Mark

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Re: A point regardding the suffering that God causes.
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2009, 11:47:37 AM »



   Wow!!!!  The Lord's will be done.....God is bringing good out of my wrong line of thinking.. As I have prayed about this whole matter I realize that all of your concerns are justified and I need to back away from this line of thinking. I'm not going to say that there isn't some truth to what I was promoting....But I'm convinced that I need to forget the whole matter...at least for now.  I need to stick with the plain word of God and not think too much...but trust him to lead me into the truth. The one good thing that came of all this is the fact that my pride took a good hit....Please pray that the Lord will give me the grace to be more humble in the future. I thank all of you for your concern. I think he caused this whole thing just for this purpose. God knows I need a good dose of humbling from time to time.

   Harry

   



Sometimes we have to take a step or two back in order to see the big picture.When one seems to think that strong revelations have been revealed, one has a tendency to want anyone with ears to listen to our newfound wisdom's.More often than not we end up shooting ourselves in the foot,but our intentions are always seemingly good.The best advice that I could give to anyone that really cares about the Spiritual and not the carnal is to take a deep breath,sit back,and start a journey into Rays teachings with the attitude that I'm here to learn, not here to teach. I say this in all sincerity,if you want to know and understand Scripture,read bible-truths.com and pray for Spiritual guidance that the will of our Father gives http:// the Grace and Faith to understand this great knowledge, in your heart and mind.The road is a life long journey and not a immediate gratification that can be understood without due diligence.


Always in the Fathers Love and Will.


Peace...Mark
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Akira329

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Re: A point regardding the suffering that God causes.
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2009, 02:14:31 PM »

Hey Harry!
I hope your encouraged to continue here. This a great place to be.
I hope you stick with the word of God and continue to use your mind!
It will definitely be changed through this process.

Rom 12:2  And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Eph 4:23  And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Rom 12:16  Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

The wisdom of this world can cloud and confuse us and sometimes is downright contradictory to the word of God.
I like the way you think but dumb it down so that we all can be edified by it.
Also a lot of scripture will help in the future.
I only hope to help not harm.
It is not my intentions.

Antaiwan
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"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile"
-Albert Einstein
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
- Jesus

judith collier

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Re: A point regardding the suffering that God causes.
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2009, 03:20:05 PM »

Will there be different stages of glory in heaven? Say on who has suffered more and overcome, will that person be happier?
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Harry

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Re: A point regardding the suffering that God causes.
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2009, 04:14:23 PM »


  Hi Judy,

  I'm not sure if Ray has covered this issue or not.... I haven't read all of what he has written yet.  I personally have read many scriptures that would indicate that our reward will be proportionate to our work . Here are a few, Matt 16:27 , 1 Cor 3:8 , Rev 22:12 . I hope these help.

    Harry
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aqrinc

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Re: A point regardding the suffering that God causes.
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2009, 04:57:07 PM »

Judy, Harry,

Just to point out, the 3 Scriptures are not in isolation. Please also look at the text surrounding
them to get the context of what the rewards are for and whose work or increase it is.


Following the rule: no prophecy of Scripture is it's own interpretation.

2Pe 1:20 (MKJV)
knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture came into being of its own private interpretation.

Mat 16:25  For whoever desires to save his life shall lose it, and whoever desires to lose his life for My sake shall find it.
Mat 16:26  For what is a man profited if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Mat 16:27  For the Son of Man shall come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He shall reward each one according to his works.

1Co 3:6  I have planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase.
1Co 3:7  So then neither is he who plants anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.
1Co 3:8  So he planting, and he watering, are one, and each one shall receive his own reward according to his own labor.
1Co 3:9  For of God we are fellow-workers, a field of God, and you are a building of God.

Rev 22:10  And he said to me, Do not seal the Words of the prophecy of this Book; for the time is at hand.
Rev 22:11  He acting unjustly, let him still act unjustly. And the filthy, let him be filthy still. And the righteous, let him be righteous still. And the holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12  And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to each according as his work is.
Rev 22:13  I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, the First and the Last.
Rev 22:14  Blessed are they who do His commandments, that their authority will be over the Tree of Life, and they may enter in by the gates into the city.

george :).

Will there be different stages of glory in heaven? Say on who has suffered more and overcome, will that person be happier?


  Hi Judy,

  I'm not sure if Ray has covered this issue or not.... I haven't read all of what he has written yet.  I personally have read many scriptures that would indicate that our reward will be proportionate to our work . Here are a few, Matt 16:27 , 1 Cor 3:8 , Rev 22:12 . I hope these help.

    Harry





« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 05:16:51 PM by aqr »
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Beloved

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Re: A point regardding the suffering that God causes.
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2009, 11:38:33 PM »

Hi Judy,

I'm not sure if Ray has covered this issue or not.... I haven't read all of what he has written yet. I personally have read many scriptures that would indicate that our reward will be proportionate to our work . Here are a few, Matt 16:27 , 1 Cor 3:8 , Rev 22:12 . I hope these help.
Harry


Okay Harry I hope this stimulates you but I am not sure that the scriptures actually support this idea you posted, You cited three verse but you have to read the words and also finish the sentances

The first quote Mat 16;27

(Mat 16:24)  Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me[/color].

then he tells us  about those who do not do this during this life

(Mat 16:25)  For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

(Mat 16:26)  For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

(Mat 16:27)  For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

G591 ἀποδίδωμι    apodidōmi    Thayer Definition:1) to deliver, to give away for one’s own profit what is one’s own, to sell  2) to pay off, discharge what is due  2a) a debt, wages, tribute, taxes, produce due  2b) things promised under oath  2c) conjugal duty  2d) to render account  3) to give back, restore  4) to requite, recompense in a good or a bad sense

This is word underlined is used 51 times and in most this is not always a positive thing and I do not think it is here either.  look at the following use , the same wording

(2Ti 4:14)  Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:

The next verse you sited 1 C0 3:8

(1Co 3:7)  So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

(1Co 3:8)  Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labor.

(1Co 3:9)  For we are laborers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

 Can you see harry that we are not doing anything that God is not orchestrating and it is all His doing ...next line

(1Co 3:10)  According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

(1Co 3:11)  For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

We are more like children helping their father fix their car.

Your third quote was Rev 22;12 , you have to look who it talking to. See the line above

(Rev 22:11)  He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
                            there is a conjunction here
(Rev 22:12) AND, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

μισθός misthos  Thayer Definition:  1) dues paid for work 1a) wages, hire
2) reward: used of the fruit naturally resulting from toils and endeavours
2a) in both senses, rewards and punishments 2b) of the rewards which God bestows, or will bestow, upon good deeds and endeavours 2c) of punishments

But I am wondering why people are so enamoured with being always being rewarded

If God is soverign and working in us, even the good things that we do are not of ourselves but of Him.....it all still points back to Him

Look what Jesus himself said

Luk 18:19  And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

Joh 14:10  Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the work


Joh 5:36  But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me

Joh 5:19  Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise
 
Joh 5:30  I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.[/b]

Joh 10:37  If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

Joh 12:49  For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Joh 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Joh 6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

This is how our good works are manifested

Tit 3:5  Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Even before the man believed

Joh 9:3  Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

OUR WORKS ARE ALL NOTHING

act 7:41  And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.

.
Rom 9:11  (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him that calleth;).

Eph 2:9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.

2Ti 1:9  Who hath saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

I especially like this couplet
 
(2Ti 3:16)  All Scripture [is] God-breathed and [is] beneficial for teaching [or, doctrine], for verification [or, reproof], for correcting faults, for instruction in righteousness [or, the behavior that God requires],

(2Ti 3:17)  that the man of God may be fitted--for every good work having been completed.

His elect are being fitted....nothing special about them. God always looks for a small group to show His Glory to the world.

No Harry I do not see anyone who is going to feel worthy of a reward then , other than His Beloved Son

Here is our position

(Luk 18:13)  And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

(Luk 18:14)  I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.


Beloved
« Last Edit: February 08, 2009, 01:20:03 AM by Beloved »
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: A point regardding the suffering that God causes.
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2009, 01:09:42 AM »

Amen and thanks, Rodger and Beloved.  I never want to lose sight of the Truth that all is about HIS purpose.  For me, I reckon if there is STILL 'envy' in 'heaven' then His purpose is not yet fulfilled.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

indianabob

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Re: A point regardding the suffering that God causes.
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2009, 01:52:38 AM »

Harry & Judy,

It has been my understanding for several years that our reward in the Kingdom of God, if it is based on our work or our accomplishments, will just be more work.  Work and responsibility for which we have been trained and are now suited to perform for the benefit of others.  The main difference is that we will no longer be flesh and will be "spirit" and will never tire of "well doing" and never again need reassurance of pleasing God and our Lord, BECAUSE we will have perfect love for God and perfect trust in His love for us.  WE will in effect have laid down our life for our brethren and will be eager to seek God's will in our lives continually.  We will only wear a crown in order to identify us to those needing our help and support and fellowship. 

The crown that God will give to each one of us will certainly be a badge of honor, but we must always keep in mind that the honor is entirely due to our God and our saviour Jesus for their work in us and not for any particular effort of our own.  When a beautiful work of art such as a painting or a unique vase is awarded first prize, the badge of honor goes to the creator and not to the work of art.  Of course the work of art wears the badge of honor, the crown, but the HONOR belongs always to the Creator of the art. 

God is creating in us the character of His only begotten son Jesus the Christ; that is our reward.

Bob




  Hi Judy,

  I'm not sure if Ray has covered this issue or not.... I haven't read all of what he has written yet.  I personally have read many scriptures that would indicate that our reward will be proportionate to our work . Here are a few, Matt 16:27 , 1 Cor 3:8 , Rev 22:12 . I hope these help.

    Harry

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Beloved

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Re: A point regardding the suffering that God causes.
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2009, 02:04:17 AM »

Yes Bob even the crowns will be relinquished to Our Mighty Father and Lord Jesus Christ

(Rev 4:10)  fall down do the twenty and four elders before Him who is sitting upon the throne, and bow before Him who is living to the ages of the ages, and they cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

(Rev 4:11)  `Worthy art Thou, O Lord, to receive the glory, and the honour, and the power, because Thou--Thou didst create the all things, and because of Thy will are they, and they were created.'


 beloved
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Harry

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Re: A point regardding the suffering that God causes.
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2009, 10:52:59 AM »


 

    Thanx everyone, for clearing things up in that area......I see what you are saying and agree completely.  It makes me feel much better knowing it is not dependent upon my weak and vacillating efforts to do God's will....and in fact it helps me to enter that rest of knowing He is doing with me exactly as he wills for me and I don't need to worry about anything....now, if I can just never forget it :-).

   Harry
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