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Author Topic: responsible vs accountable  (Read 10031 times)

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mhykx

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responsible vs accountable
« on: February 05, 2009, 10:38:48 PM »

As I've said in my personal introduction, English is not my first language.

I do have some understanding on words like responsible and accountable.  Without looking the dictionary, I think the word "responsible" means bearing the guilt of someone's mistake (ex. I'm responsible why the car broke since I allowed him to drive it although I know that he is not a good driver).  Accountable, on the other hand, means to pay for someone's mistake (did I get this right?) or be the one to explain why a mistake happened (ex. Although I know that he is not a good driver, he is still has to explain [or accountable] why the car broke).

Funny thing is, however, when I consulted the dictionary, these two words (responsible, accountable) can be used intechangeably.  Now that made me confused.

Can anyone give other sample sentences differentiating these two words?  Mr. Ray used these to explain how God is responsbile to mankind's sin but each man is accountable to his deeds.

Thanks,
Mike
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Ninny

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Re: responsible vs accountable
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2009, 10:59:44 PM »

Hi Mike,
First i think you kind of answered your own question. Being responsible for something means you are answerable for the deed or whatever. Being accountable would mean being held in a position of answering or being held to give an account or restitution for the deed done.
Number 1. Caused it to happen or caused the circumstances for which it happened (God does this)
Number 2. You are actually required to give an account of it or make restitution or suffer the consequences for your actions in regards to the doing of the deed or action. (This is us)
Well, that may not really be helpful, but as you are here for awhile you will understand that this:

Is just the way I see it! :D
Hoping you get your answers!
Kathy ;)
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: responsible vs accountable
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2009, 11:43:26 PM »

Hi Mike.  We are accountable because we do the things we do.  God is responsible, because we are His workmanship.

We have accountability.  He takes responsibility.  

In both cases, it is not so much the dictionary definitions of them, but the scriptural principles to which they point that's important.  The difference between them is mostly in--to WHOM they are applied.

ex. I'm responsible why the car broke since I allowed him to drive it although I know that he is not a good driver).  Accountable, on the other hand, means to pay for someone's mistake (did I get this right?) or be the one to explain why a mistake happened (ex. Although I know that he is not a good driver, he is still has to explain [or accountable] why the car broke).

Not exactly.  There's too many 'characters' in that analogy to make this make sense.  But simply put, whoever pays for the car takes responsibility for the payment, whether or not he has any accountability for the damage.

Accountability/Accountable is more passive.
Responsibility/Responsible is more active

Responsiblity is also a character-trait, and a good one.  Accountability is not a character-trait, just a fact about someone.

I hope that helps a little.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2009, 12:10:51 AM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

aqrinc

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Re: responsible vs accountable
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2009, 12:02:47 AM »


Mike,

Put Simply, GOD IS In Total Control, according to the Scriptures. If He is in Control
then The Responsibility is HIS Alone. We though; being sinners by nature take from
the choices he gives us. Left to ourselves we always take the choice to satisfy self
(sinning stuff). For this choice we are accountable; since HE put all the choices out
there for us; HE Is Responsible.


Here are a few Scriptures that show Who is Responsible for Everything.

Isa 29:16  O your perversity! Shall the former be counted as the potter's clay; for
shall the work say of him who made it, He did not make me? Or shall the thing formed
say to him who formed it, He had no understanding?

Jer 18:2 
Arise and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause you to hear My Words.
Jer 18:3 
Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he was working a work on the wheel.
Jer 18:4 
And the vessel that he made in clay was ruined in the hand of the potter; so he made it again
another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
Jer 18:5 
Then the Word of Jehovah came to me, saying,
Jer 18:6 
O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter? says Jehovah. Behold, As the clay in
the potter's hands, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel.

Rom 9:21  Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make
one vessel to honor and another to dishonor?

george. :)





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mhykx

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Re: responsible vs accountable
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2009, 12:26:48 AM »


We have accountability.  He takes responsibility.  

...........

Accountability/Accountable is more passive.
Responsibility/Responsible is more active


Does this "accountability" means that one is going to pay for whatever wrong deeds he made in this life?

What do you mean when you say "Accountability/Accountable is more passive."?

Thanks for everybody's insights!
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Ninny

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Re: responsible vs accountable
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2009, 12:48:49 AM »

Mike I just want to say one thing about

Does this "accountability" means that one is going to pay for whatever wrong deeds he made in this life?

You know we all pay in one way or another for the wrong deeds we do.It may not be a severe punishment or judgment, but we do "pay" in some way. You may not go to jail or pay a big fine, but sometimes our own regrets make us pay a heavy toll. Don't live in fear of accountability just ask God to forgive you and make amends the best way you can and go on your way. Sometimes you may be feeling guilty about something God has already forgiven you for, but "the accuser of the brethren" is standing there accusing you over and over again, causing you to relive it and telling you you are guilty. that is when you have to use the scriptures to rebuke the devil and know that you are forgiven!
We can't go on "feelings" when it comes to faith and forgiveness, you just have to know it!
Again, it's just the way I see it!
Kathy ;) 
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aqrinc

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Re: responsible vs accountable
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2009, 12:57:42 AM »

Mike,

Have you read this material on the site posted by Ray. Your questions can be answered
with the information already on here. There is no short answer or shortcut; you just need
to get down and start reading and Praying.

Here is some information you need to understand:


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6452.msg51860.html#msg51860

    Excerpt from: FOUNDATIONAL TRUTHS
               [How much truth does it take to set one FREE?]

Those articles on my site, there are 24 installments in the Lake of Fire, about 28-45 pages long each.  But they need to be that long, because I need to cover that material in detail so people won’t come back and say, ‘well what about this, I see you didn’t cover that.’  Yes I did.  It would be hard to find some major thing in any article and say, ‘well you didn’t cover this.’  Yes I did. 

So I’m thinking that some of the Bible studies (which are for the forum because we put them on the forum), need to be a little bit more simple.  I need to just get across a couple of profound points or something. 
So I was thinking about how people read my stuff.  You know they will spend hours reading it and looking up the Scriptures and then they say ‘that’s it, Ray doesn’t lie.’  But they could never do that themselves. 
Some people feel, ‘well I wish I could teach like Ray or understand it or at least answer questions to somebody when it comes up. Because I can’t remember these 2000 pages of stuff that Ray has.’ 

Well it’s there, so you can look it up you know.  Say if you want to know about sheol, I’ve got 2 papers, 30 pages each or more and you can look up any detail or any verse that contains that word and it’s there.  But still it’s too much for a lot of people.
People have asked me, ‘can’t you just write a summary of all your papers?’  No, I can not.  I absolutely can not and I will not. 

Today’s lesson is going to be one thing, one idea.  I wanted it to be something that will be really helpful to you.  I titled it Foundational Truths, how much truth do you need to set one free?  In John it says;

John 8:32  And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

That’s what Christ said.  Well how much truth do you need?  I mean do you have to go 10 years of studying the Bible and then you are about half free?  This is talking about freedom in your mind, of not being really apprehensive about what God is like or what happens after death.  I mean having a clear picture of this and being free in your mind.  This is what people email me about all the time. 

I get hundreds and thousands of emails that say, ‘I’m so confused, I feared for my Uncle Harry, I loved him so much, but he was an alcoholic and he died that way.  At the funeral the Pastor said he was going to hell.’  What?  Then they go on to say, ‘I read your paper and it was like this giant load was lifted off.  I saw in the Scriptures for the first time that God isn’t going to burn anybody in hell for all eternity.’

So I want to give you enough information so that, on a rather simplistic level, you can take on any and all comers, TV preachers or people, you know.  Because a lot of us run into people who will argue about Scripture and say, ‘yes God is going to torture people, because it says so.’ 
Is there a way to learn how to overcome virtually all of these hundreds of Scriptures that they throw at you?  I think there is.  That’s what today’s study is all about. 
So many of the doctrines of the church, they contradict each other, they contradict God, they contradict the Scriptures.  They don’t care, I mean even a good friend I had 2 years ago, stated that the Scriptures are full of contradictions.  No they're not, I have answered a few of those.

Now you don’t need to be a scholar and you don’t even need to be super intelligent.  You don’t need any of those things to understand a truth.
 
Now here is a good Scripture.

Luke 10:21  “In that hour …”

That hour happened to be when Christ sent out His disciples.  He said, if these people would have demons to cast them out and if they are sick to heal them and to teach them about the kingdom of God.  And when they returned; 

“…Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent (now He talking about the religious leaders, the Scribes, the Pharisees, the Zealots and all those), and hast revealed them unto babes…”

That word babes doesn‘t mean babies, in the Greek babes means minors, like teenagers - young people or an older person, but one that is not formally educated and learned in a lot of things.

“…even so, Father; for so it seemed good in Your sight.”

So in fact it is better if you are not too smart and not too successful if you want to understand the Scripture.  Why is that?  Because this is what we read in I Corinthians.

1 Cor 1:26  For ye see your calling, brethren (he is talking to the church at Corinth and he said look at yourselves), how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

Okay you see your calling and not many of those…

1 Cor 1:27  But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

Now why does God do it this way?  Well that’s just the way God does things.  He likes to do things that way.  He likes to make big things out of little things.

1 Cor 1:28  And base things of the world, and things (he’s talking about people not physical things) which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not (in other words, if we say it in the vernacular - those that are nobodies, the absolute nobodies), to bring to naught things that are:

And the reason for all this?  Next verse…

1 Cor 1:29  That no flesh should glory in His presence.

One of the requirements to follow God properly is to be humble.  It doesn’t mean you have to be weak livered, shy, bashful or insecure it doesn’t mean any of those things.  It just means humble, know who and what you are, we are FLESH!  We start out carnal flesh, carnal and fleshly - meat - Chili Con Carne - Chili with meat - carnal. 

We read in Romans 8 that the carnal mind, the way you think with the natural mind, is enmity against God or doesn’t like God.  When you want to do a lot of dirty nasty things, when you want to lie and cheat other people, when you want to be a drunkard or be on drugs or whatever you want to do.  You don’t want to be thinking about God when you do those things.  Why?  It’s uncomfortable!  It says with such a mind you are not subject to the laws of God.

Rom 8:7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

george :).


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Ninny

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Re: responsible vs accountable
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2009, 01:05:15 AM »

Good, George, I didn't even think about that article! Good advice.  Ray comes through again!! ;D ;D
Kathy ;)
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: responsible vs accountable
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2009, 01:46:06 AM »

Does this "accountability" means that one is going to pay for whatever wrong deeds he made in this life?

Mike, I don't know in specific terms what will happen after resurrection.  I DO know that whatever God needs to do with, for, and to us to complete His goal and fulfill His will is what He will do and has already done.  He intends to change us into the Likeness of His Son.  He's already started this work in you and me, Marcos and Imelda, Hitler and Ghandi and He WILL complete it.

Ray used the English words you asked about to teach Scripture.  That's where your answers are.  This is HUGE stuff--'meaning of life' stuff.  You'll get there a little at a time.

What do you mean when you say "Accountability/Accountable is more passive."?

I can't explain that one, sorry.   ;D  I think I did a little better with the comment that Responsibility is a character-trait and accountability is simply a fact.  You either are or are not accountable, but you can BE responsible.  Maybe that's a bit better.

Remember, though...it's not the definition of the words that you should chase after, but what the Scripture says.  I understand that you want to understand what Ray meant.  But Ray is teaching scripture, not a lesson about Responsibilty and Accountability.  Those are just tools.  Follow that trail instead.  We'll be glad to help out and nudge you along.

  
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

aqrinc

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Re: responsible vs accountable
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2009, 01:49:40 AM »


Hi Ninny and Mike,

We all get on a trail and start running, sometimes it is good to see first if the trail
is the correct one to take in the first place. Ray has by GOD'S Inspiration done a
large amount of clearing and mapping the trails for us. We need to use what has
been provided rather than reinvent the wheel just to prove we can.

I must humbly say that it was a hard thing for me to lay down my years of learning
and experience to learn from a roofer. But 2 minutes into: The Seven Wonders of Hell,
http://bible-truths.com/hagee1.htm i was ready to have a Boston Tea Party with my
old wine.

my best medicine now is; whenever i feel (A Scripture Lack attack) i dive into the
trail that leads away from Hell.

Thanks a Billion Ray; make that a Trillion or a Gazillion. ;D

Our GOD in Jesus Christ our Lord IS GOOD.

george. ;D

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Kat

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Re: responsible vs accountable
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2009, 01:54:45 AM »


Hi Mike,

Here is a excerpt and an email on this subject.

http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html -----------------------

God "created evil" (Isa. 45:7). God does not create things that do not serve a good purpose. By the way, the word translated into "evil" in Isa. 45:7 is the Hebrew word ra, and it is the very same word translated hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times as "evil" throughout the Old Testament.

Now the word ra does not have a conscience and therefore has no moral bias. Evil is not ‘SIN.’ God created evil; God Himself is not evil. And strictly speaking, God did not create sin, nor has God Himself ever sinned. What God has done is created humanity in a spiritually weakened state that is totally incapable of even understanding spiritual laws and principle, let alone being capable of obeying them. And this was not a sin or mistake on God’s part, this was weakness by design. Therefore, God is responsible (certainly not accountable), but responsible for all sin. And God has already taken responsibility for all sin by Sacrificing His Son, Jesus Christ:
v
v
We have seen that not even Satan can go against God’s intentions. Satan needs permission from God to do his dirty work. Since God is responsible (but not accountable—seeing that nothing He does is without a great and beneficial purpose), God takes responsibility for His whole creation, and that is why everything will turn out perfect for every one of God’s creatures.


http://bible-truths.com/email4.htm#account ------------

There are a couple of reasons why God holds one accountable (not responsible--God takes the responsibility) for his sins even if he couldn't have done otherwise.

People who sin and have no desire to please God, do not believe in the first place that they do not have a free will regarding their sins.   They believe that they ARE in control of their own destiny. See the example of that I use of the Assyrian king in the latter part of my letter to James Kennedy.  The king took credit for conquering all the nations around him. He though HE was the mighty one. He thought HE planned and did these mighty acts by HIMSELF.  God informs us that the king was merely a pawn (or an ax) in God's own hand doing the conquering.  Our pride and vanity will be conquered by God.

We actually DO commit the sins that we commit. Whether we could have done otherwise is immaterial in as much as committing the sin makes us SINNERS.  Think of sin as DIRT.  It matters not HOW we got dirty--God is going to give EVERYONE A BATH LIKE IT OR NOT. God is God and He can and will do as HE pleases. And God pleases to put us through an experience of sin and death before He glorifies us with all the powers of the universe.

Sincerely,

Ray


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mhykx

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Re: responsible vs accountable
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2009, 03:12:01 AM »

Hi everybody....

I have already read all possible pages returned when I searched for "accountable" in bible-truths.com.

I know God is the overall responsible for everything.  There is no question about it.  All of you, and most specially Mr. Ray, proved that.  But why is God not accountable (I hope I'm not blaspheming)? Is it because He is not the one directly committed the mistake or sin but man is?  God put, plan, arrange everything (even gave a weak heart) for man to sin or experience sin!  He set the stage!

How different is the word 'accountable' to 'responsible' when Thesaurus and Dictionary somehow use them interchangeably?

Take a look at this situation...

A certain company went bankrupt.
The Chairman meets all the managers and directors.
He says, "Who is responsible to this mess?!"

Isn't it the same to say, "Who is accountable to this mess?!" ?

I'm sorry...I'm new to this.  I hope I'm not annoying anyone.

Mike
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: responsible vs accountable
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2009, 04:44:20 AM »

I know God is the overall responsible for everything.  There is no question about it.  All of you, and most specially Mr. Ray, proved that.  But why is God not accountable (I hope I'm not blaspheming)? Is it because He is not the one directly committed the mistake or sin but man is? 

Yes.   

God put, plan, arrange everything (even gave a weak heart) for man to sin or experience sin!  He set the stage!

Yes.

God also gave His Son to die and take Responsibility.  And He sent His Spirit to lead us into all Righteousness.  Which way are you walking?  Does knowing that make you want to run out and live it up in sin? 

Many are called, but few are chosen.

That's the Spiritual lesson.

A certain company went bankrupt.
The Chairman meets all the managers and directors.
He says, "Who is responsible to this mess?!"

Isn't it the same to say, "Who is accountable to this mess?!" ?


It's one of the vagaries of English.  In some cases, the words are pretty interchangeable.  A native speaker would be more likely to say, "Who is responsible?" than "Who is accountable?"  In either case, he would be understood...he's looking for the cause. 

You might say with God, though, He's not looking for somebody to blame.  He is the ultimate CEO and, as we say in the States, 'The buck stops here.'...or 'I am the cause'.  Of course, His company is not really in a 'mess'.  Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done on earth as it IS in heaven.

That's the English lesson.   :D         
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Ninny

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Re: responsible vs accountable
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2009, 01:13:39 PM »

Good point, Rodger! :D Definitely something to realize! We have been fed well, haven't we? I mean in the church!

 Yet churches evolve whole doctrines around this word "responsibility." Things like: "you're responsible for going to hell" or "it's your responsibility to accept Christ" or "the age of responsibility" or "everyone is responsible for his or her deeds." Strange to make so big a deal of a word that does not even appear in Scripture."

hmmm...
Kathy  :)
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Robin

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Re: responsible vs accountable
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2009, 02:45:52 PM »

I have a simple way of understanding this. God shows me something about my carnal mind. I agree with him and tell him the truth about that part of me that he has shown me. I confess that it is true. This is how I am accountable. There is no guilt involved. I know that I was powerless to prevent myself from being this way and I am powerless to change myself or mold myself into the image of Christ.

God is the only one who can be responsible for completing this work. He is the only one who has the power. He is responsible for the whole plan and designed it to make us his children. It's a good plan.

So I confess my sin as he brings me to repentance and I turn myself over to him to change me and mold me into the image of his son. There is so much freedom in that.

This is how I distinguish accountability from responsibility.
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mhykx

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Re: responsible vs accountable
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2009, 09:11:28 PM »

I have a simple way of understanding this. God shows me something about my carnal mind. I agree with him and tell him the truth about that part of me that he has shown me. I confess that it is true. This is how I am accountable. There is no guilt involved. I know that I was powerless to prevent myself from being this way and I am powerless to change myself or mold myself into the image of Christ.

God is the only one who can be responsible for completing this work. He is the only one who has the power. He is responsible for the whole plan and designed it to make us his children. It's a good plan.

So I confess my sin as he brings me to repentance and I turn myself over to him to change me and mold me into the image of his son. There is so much freedom in that.

This is how I distinguish accountability from responsibility.

G.M.

Thank you very much for your (and for others, as well) explanation.  I prayed to God to give me explanation or answer to this question.  Bit by bit, I'm beginning to understand.

Allow me to recap you said.

Carnal mind - our weak heart - God has shown and made us to understand it.  It is desperately wicked (or weak).  I read it.  I agree that it is true.  THAT made me or will make me ACCOUNTABLE to every thing that I do.  But there is NO GUILT INVOLVE because I cannot do anything about it, I am powerless to resist temptation and thus 99.99% I fall into it.  And UNLESS the SPIRIT OF CHRIST lives in me, there is no way I cannot change myself.  But thank GOD He is RESPONSIBLE to finish the whole plan and design that will make, fashion, and mold me to become His child.  When I sin, I confess as he brings me to repentance and turn myself over to Him again.

Oh, the whole process of God's plan of changing his children into the image of His Son Jesus...."How unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out!"
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: responsible vs accountable
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2009, 10:49:48 PM »

Amen Mike.  I have long believed that until you can put something into your own words you don't really understand it.  I believe by your words that you do have the beginnings of understanding.  God bless you as you continue. 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.
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