Theory of evolution and God

[musicman]

I wasn't aware of the controversy surrounding this author, but should I be surprised?  It is hard to know what to believe when we don't have the time to search out every angle of every belief system.  I figure that most people who write books have an agenda to make money.  That's one of the special qualities about Ray.  He has no such agenda.  I would hope that this author actually believes what he writes.  The best we can do is compare his writings with others. 

This man Oktar, writes many things that I have heard numerous times.  From the Cambrian Explosion to the evolution of birds, he identifies impossibilities that evolutionists claim to have substantiated with proof.  Hardly!!  Creatures have shown up in the fossil beds fully formed, with no apparent intermediates.  Evolutionists will claim that they have several intermediates, but that is just not so.  Why would the idea of punctuated equilibrium be explored by Gould if there were so many intermediates?  By the way, this is the notion that evolution took place in small groups rather quickly and the numbers of intermediates would be too few in number for the evidence to show up.  And how many creationists would endorse his statement of a modern man existing 1.7 million years ago?  He mentioned that a particular human fossil that old was almost exactly the same as those of recent times.  I personally don't feel that some creatures existing in the same forms 70 million years ago invalidates the theory of evolution. 

I have the highest respect for science and evolutionists.  Their work is important and I read up on it when I can.  I don't feel that they have answered their critics though.  I think that their theory is a pipe dream and they are just as guilty of ignoring scientific evidence as young earth creationists.  I don't agree with everything that this author here writes, as he suggests that every organ of every creature has a proven use.  I am still baffled by some of the evidence for evolution even though he denies the significance of most of it.  But the bottom line is, a self replicating cell cannot come together on it's own, and evolution could never happen without billions of tiny successive approximations.   

 

[aqrinc]

Actually that is exactly how they built the Boeing 747; only it evolved in less than 100 years.
Smart little one celled critters out there. What utter poppycock from supposed learned people.

Just ignore the Greatest Historian and Historical Record ever Written: The Scriptures.

Psa 19: 1-14 (KJV)
1  The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2  Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3  There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4  Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5  Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6  His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
7  The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
8  The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9  The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
10  More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11  Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
12  Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
13  Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
14  Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

george.

[judith collier]

George, I actually made a connection!  My shrink once told me that the way the brain is formed with so many connections that people are always making  these connections and therefore the brain cannot be trusted. Say you?   Judy

[musicman]

You know, Kermit the Frog made a certain song famous.  He sang "someday we'll find it, the rainbow connection".  That song has a deeper meaning when you apply it to evolution.  Evolutionists claim "someday we'll find them, the billions of little evolutionary connections" (sing it folks).  And what's with that talking frog made out of socks?  Sounds like we're ready for another post.

[britt]

Steve,

I came across this on Ray's How We Got the Bible transcripts.

BIG BANG OR A GOD AWESOME BLAST

Psalms 18:15  Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered, at Thy rebuke, O Lord, at THE BLAST of the breath of Your nostrils.

This is figurative language of course, but lets pay attention to the words anyway.  He is likening a real powerful force as being what?  A BLAST from the nostrils of God.  A BLAST.  You see the same thing in II Samuel.

2 Samuel 22:16  Then the channels of the sea appeared, The foundations of the world were laid bare, at the rebuking of the Lord, at THE BLAST of the breath of His nostrils.

Exo 15:8  And with THE BLAST of Your nostrils the waters were gathered together; the floods stood upright like a heap; the depths were congealed in the heart of the sea.

How?  By the BLAST of God's breath/nostrils.  So God says He uses "A BLAST" to do big things.  So I'm going to be a little silly here, but making a point as well.  I was thinking the other day, what is the difference if science says there was a 'Big Bang' and I say there was a God awesome blast.  What's the difference?  Can you see the similarity?  Scientist all know now that it started with a big bang, I say could that be like a God awesome blast?  Let's look at this blast.  Where did they come up with the Big Bang?  The universe is expanding.  When did they learn that?  They really first began to understand that back in about 1960.  I mean I was already full-grown, I was out of high school.  That's when they really started to understand this, not a hundred years ago, not 2 or 3 hundred years ago, not in the days of Copernicus (16th century Polish Astronomer), not in the days of Galileo (17th century Italian physicist and astronomer).  A couple of decades ago they learned this.  So where did they come up with the Big Bang though?  If the universe is expanding, if the stars and galaxies are moving out....


                      STARS - GALAXIES - THE UNIVERSE

What is the difference between a star, a galaxy and the universe?
A star is one single body, like the sun.  Our sun is a star.
A cluster of stars in a given area with a lot of void around it is a galaxy.  Most galaxies have about 100 billion stars.  We belong to the Milky Way galaxy.  It is so big that it take light starting at one end, going at 600 million mph (that is the speed of light -186,000 miles a second), that is like going around the earth 8 times in a second.  So you could travel in a spaceship going 186,000 miles a second and it would take you 100,000 years to reach the end of our galaxy.
Yet if you back up in space, our galaxy looks like one star.  You got to get really close and you see it's billions of stars and they are hundreds of millions of miles apart.  But if you back up in space then you will reach a point where our whole galaxy, which is a 1000,000 light years across, looks like one star.  You back up a little more and you can't even see it.  Then out there, there is other galaxies, that looks like a star from our Milky Way, but it's not a star, it's another galaxy, billions of miles away.  Like Andromeda, that's one of the closest galaxies.

So you have one body like the sun, that is a star.  A whole group of stars clustered, is a galaxy.  All the galaxies combined is the universe.

So they discovered that the stars and galaxies are flying apart, at terrific speed.  They learned that through the dipolar theory.  When sound or light is approaching you, the frequency is higher.  If you are moving away from it, the frequency is lower.  What they found is that these distant stars have a lower frequency and so they are moving away.  So if the stars are all moving away from each other, then so many years before that, they were here (hands stretched apart).  Then so many thousands of years before that, they were here ( hands closer together).  And so many millions of years before that, they were there (hands together).  Common sense says if they are going out like this (hand stretching out) at one time they were back here (hands together).  That's the Big Bang!  It started at a common origin, that's all it's saying.  It sounds like a science fantasy, 'the Big Bang.'  No, it's just a clever way...by using a statement to show a scientific theory, that if everything is going apart, the further you go back the closer it was together.  It's only natural that it started at one place and that's why it's moving apart from where it started.  That's the Big Bang.

Now notice this in Psalms.

Psalms 104:2  Who cover Yourself with light as with a garment, Who STRETCH OUT the heavens like a curtain.

What?  You read that and you say that's kind of poetic talk of King David in the Psalms.  But it isn't just King David though.

Isa 40:21  "Have you not known?  Have you not heard?  Has it not been told you from the beginning?  Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?
v. 22  It is He who sits upon (it should be above) the circle of the earth..."

How did they know the earth was a circle?  Some of the most intelligent scientist in all of Great Brittan, just a couple hundred years ago, they thought it was flat.  How come the Bible knew it was a circle?  That's not my point though.  Continuing in verse 22.

"...And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who STRETCHES  OUT the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in (or under)."

It's like a great tent, under this canopy, this celestial tent.  But it says "stretches" it's in the indefinite, like the Greek aorist tense.  Much of King James has it properly, some times it doesn't though, in key scripture lot of times it doesn't.

John 3:16  "For God so LOVED the world..."  NO, that's not what it says in the Greek.  He didn't 'loved' the world once and now He doesn't.  It's in the aorist tense.  "For God thus LOVES" He loved them, He loves all along, He loves now, He will love in the future.  It's indefinite, it's the past - present - future tense.  "God so loves the world..."  You see that's how it should be translated.  Any scholar knows that this is indefinite.
The Concordant version translates it "who is stretching out..."  Now that really puts it in the present, Young's has the same.   

Isa 40:22  "...Who is (present tense - now is) stretching out as a thin gauze the heavens..." (CLV)

How could they say that?  How would any one know that the heavens are being stretched out?  Any logical person, being a Godly man or atheist, if he was to consider that somebody did make the heavens, they would say, 'well up there is a star and somebody made it.'  Where did He make it?  'Well right there where it is.'  There are stars on the other side of the earth, looking the other way.  Up there is the moon.  Where did He make the moon, over in Palestine or down in Africa?  'Well there, that's where it is, so that's where He made it.'  Here's the sun, well where did He make the sun?  'Right there, where it is, that's where He made the sun.'  Anybody would see that.  That's the only logical conclusion that your brain could come to.  Where ever it is, if there is a God, that's where He made it.

But that's not what the Bible says.  The Bible says, "He is (present tense) stretching out...the heavens."  How could they know that?!  The best scientist in the world didn't know that until just a couple years ago.  This is amazing stuff.  This is mind boggling stuff.  The writers knew that the heavens are moving out.  You can't see that.  It takes the most sophisticated knowledge and instruments that science could come up with in thousands of years to finally measure that they are moving.  Yet Isaiah and King David they knew it thousands of years ago.  It's unbelievable, it's just unbelievable.  Now this is very specific and it's very scientific.



« Last Edit: May 02, 2008, 08:45:56 AM by Kat »  Logged

I found it an interesting read.

Britt

[judith collier]

Georgia Boy that was something you wrote there. Amazing, at least to me. Judy

[britt]

Judy-