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[Roy Martin]

Hello Everyone,
I'm new to all of this wonderful truth. I have been reading bible truths for a month or two and I'm rereading it again and again.I cant get enough of it fast enough. I cant find the word to describe how I feel.
I prayed for God to reveal the truth to me as things in the church I had been attending for 10 years just didn't seem right anymore.Well I found Rays web site immediately and knew it was truth right from the start.
Nothing about it was confusing. I guess we all share that feeling of wanting to shout it out to the world but I found out quick that Christians in the church buildings cling to the lies and wont believe the truth with it right in from of their faces. Its amazing that sinners will at least say, "that makes sense or sounds more like the truth." Even they know that something isn't right with the churches even though many haven't even been in a Church. Oh well, its all for the good.
Why is it that we want so much to share this truth? Its not just a thing that comes and goes. I know that its put in us for a reason.
AS I have been reading the forum, I see teachers at all levels,none of which Ive ever seen in the church.
I see a love and compassion and understanding that is authentic and sincere. Its as if we are all on the same page. I'm very excited about all of this.
I have found out for me that I cant and wont stop sharing what I'm learning, not saying that Ill rub it in anyone's face.Its just that I learn from this.It makes me seek the truth even more and look at myself. It gives me more understanding of how people are thinking and feeling. Its an experience that teachers at all levels need to experience. I don't say this as advice to anyone.Its not for me to give advice unless I'm asked for it. Its just that this is what feels right for me.I have to make mistakes to be a better teacher.
I have no doubt that we are called and chosen as Ray is teaching to be teachers in The Kingdom. I feel it.
Well I have said enough for now.I hope I didn't say too much.
I look forward to talking with and getting to know all of you.
Your Bro. In Christ
Roy Martin

[Roy Martin]

I'm sorry,
I totally got beside myself in my first message and forgot my subject of Satan and omni presence
Some one asked me or commented that Satan couldn't be in all the churches at the same time,that he can be in only one place at a time.I have never seen this in scripture. I know nothing of Satan on this topic. Can someone give me some insight?
Thank You
Roy Martin

[mharrell08]

Excerpt from Lake of Fire series #10 (http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html):

THE THRONE AND SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN LOCATED

I have a nice laminated chart of the Seven Churches of Revelation that I bought at a Bible Book Store. On this chart each Church is identified and followed by four categories:

(1) Strengths, (2) Faults, (3) Instruction, and (4) Promises. There are two boxes that have the word "NONE" written in them. They are: Faults of the Church of Smyrna—"NONE" and Faults of the Church of Philadelphia—"NONE." This chart is wrong.

The truth is that Smyrna and Philadelphia each had the same giant spiritual weaknesses. And what is true for one and two is also true for all. They all had this spiritual sin in their congregations. Let’s notice what, spiritual sin IS, and also WAS in the Church at the time John wrote this prophecy, and which therefore is yet TO COME in future generations of the Church.

    SMYRNA: "…I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN" (Rev. 2:9).

    PHILADELPHIA: "Behold, I will make them of THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN, which say they are Jews and are not" (Rev. 3:9).

I had a Klu Klux Klan member write me saying that this means there are people claiming to be of the Jewish race, but are not of the Jewish race. Ridiculous nonsense. The Book of Revelation is spiritual and symbolic. This is not speaking of literal people claiming to be literal Jews of the literal tribe of Judah. Besides, what "spiritual" lesson would there be in such a statement in the first place? No, these are people who claim that they are Jews, but what kind of "Jews?" Why, "spiritual Jews," of course.! Who is a "spiritual Jew?" Let the Scriptures answer:

    "But he is a Jew [who is born of the Tribe of Judah? Who practices the religion of Judaism?…], which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men but of God" (Rom. 2:29).

Well, if according to the Scriptures, a real Jew is one who is a Jew "inwardly," then who is a person who practices Judaism and is literally of the Tribe of Judah? Again, let’s have the Scriptures tell us:

    "For he is NOT a Jew, which is one outwardly [one who is physically circumcised the eighth day, one who physically practices Judaism, and one who is physically from the tribe of Judah, and who may even physically live in Jerusalem, Israel], neither is that circumcision, which is outward [made by the cutting off of physical flesh with a physical knife] in the flesh" (Rom. 2:28).

Remember in previous lessons how we learned that it is only by matching spiritual with spiritual that we can understand God’s Word? God’s "WORD"! Jesus Christ is "The Word" of God (John 1:1). And Jesus Christ said that the WORDS that He spoke were "spirit." The book of Revelation is the "Testimony of Jesus Christ." The book of Revelation is, therefore, also spiritual. These people in the Church of Smyrna and Philadelphia claimed to be spiritual Jews, who are —spiritually converted. Anyone and everyone who is spiritually converted to Jesus Christ is a spiritual Jew. Paul tells the Gentile Galatians that they are the children of the promise made for the Jews through Abraham. Even Jesus tells us that the children of the kingdom (the literal line of physical Israel) will be cast out and the Gentiles from the east and the west will sit in their place in the kingdom of God. (Matt. 8:10-11).

These people in the Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia lied. They claimed to spiritually converted (for that is what God’s definition of "a Jew" really is). And a natural man or woman from the natural physical tribe of Judah is not a real Jew at all. The derivation of the name "Jew" comes from yadah and it means, "to give thanks, laud, praise." But the natural [carnal] Jew CANNOT give thanks, laud, or praise to God because,

    "Because the carnal mind [the natural physical mind of every Jew from birth, and certainly Gentiles as well] is enmity [hatred] against God: for it is not subject to the [spiritual] law of God, neither indeed can be [or is able]" (Rom. 8:7).

When will we begin to understand that the teachings of the New Testament are not carnal, not physical of the flesh? We are to come out of carnality and be converted, and become spiritual Jews, a people who truly worship (give thanks, laud, and praise) God IN SPIRIT?

So if one has religion, but is not converted, what is he? The Scriptures plainly tell us that he is a member of "THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN."

HIM WHICH IS, AND WHICH WAS, AND WHICH IS TO COME

When God wants to emphasis something, He repeats it. When He really wants to emphasize something, He repeats it again. When He really, really, really wants to emphasize something, He repeats it multiple times. Let’s count the times God uses this phrase:

   1.

      "Him which IS, and which WAS, and which IS TO COME" Rev. 1:4).
   2.

      "I AM alpha and Omega, the BEGINNING and the ENDING, which IS, and which WAS, and which IS TO COME" (Re. 1:8 ).
   3. "I am Alpha and Omega, the FIRST and the LAST" (Rev. 1:11).
       
   4. "I am the FIRST and the LAST" (Rev. 1:17).
       
   5. "I am He that LIVES, and WAS DEAD; and, behold, I AM ALIVE" "Rev. 1:18 ).
       
   6. "the FIRST and the LAST, which was DEAD, and is ALIVE" (Rev. 2:8 ).
       
   7. "Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty, which WAS, and IS, and IS TO COME" (Rev. 4:8 ).
       
   8. "Oh Lord God Almighty, which ART, and WAS, and ARE TO COME" (Rev. 11:17).
       
   9. "Thou art righteous, O Lord, which ARE, and WAS, and SHALL BE" (Rev. 16:5).
       
  10.

      "I am Alpha and Omega, the BEGINNING and the END"

Jesus Christ is the BEGINNING and the END; He IS, WAS, and WILL BE. The book of Revelation is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, therefore, the book of Revelation tells us what "IS [or ARE], WAS, and WILL BE." Everything spoken to the churches is, was, and will be. But not everything that "is, and was," "will be" eternally.

Virtually everything in the Bible pertains to the ages [Greek: aions]. All of these ages will come to and end, as will some things that are only used during eonian times or the times contained in the ages.

One of the prime examples of something that is only used during the ages, is JUDGMENT. When judgment brings about righteousness among all mankind, judgment will become a thing of the past, never to be used in the Kingdom of God again. No, something's "will be" NO MORE. Not until later in the book of Revelation are we told of NEW things to come and OLD things that "will be" no more.

Thank and praise God that one day the most dreaded and painful things in the universe will be NO MORE:

    "And God shall wipe away ALL TEARS from their eyes [no, there will be NO ONE in a fabled Christian hellhole of terror with tears running down their fire-scorched face for all eternity]; and there shall be NO MORE DEATH [not a first death, nor a second death, nor a spiritual death, nor any ‘death’ whatsoever, ‘the last enemy being ABOLISHED is DEATH,’ (I Cor. 15:26)], neither SORROW, nor CRYING, neither shall there be a ANY MORE PAIN: for the former things ARE PASSED AWAY" (Rev. 21:4)!

How many times must this verse be quoted before we actually believe it?

    "And He that sat upon the throne said, ‘BEHOLD! I MAKE ALL THINGS NEW" (Verse 5)!

These are truly the most profound promises by God Almighty in the entirety of Scripture!

Let’s try reading a few verses together with this spiritual understanding of what is "spiritual," and what still, "is, was, and will be":

    "The [spiritual] Revelation [that is, was, and will be] of [spiritual] Jesus Christ [who is, was, and will be], which God gave unto Him, to show unto His [spiritual] servants [which are were and will be] [spiritual] things [which are, were, and will be] which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and [spiritually] signified [what is, was, and will be] by His [spiritual] angel [which is, was, and will be] unto His [spiritual] servant [which is, was, and will be] John.

    Who bare [spiritual] record of [what is, was, and will be] of the [spiritual] word [which is, was, and will be] of [spiritual] God [who is, was, and will be], and of the [spiritual] testimony [which is, was, and will be] of [spiritual] Jesus Christ [Who lives, was dead, and am alive; Who is, was, and will be; the Alpha and the Omega; the beginning and the end; Who is, was, and is to come], and of all [spiritual] things [which are, were, and will be], that he [spiritually] saw [things that are, and were, and will be].

    [Spiritually] Blessed is he [who is, was, and will be] that [spiritually] reads [what is, was, and will be], and they that [spiritually] hear [what is, was, and will be] the [spiritual] words of this [spiritual] prophecy [which is, was, and will be], and [spiritually] keep those things [which are, were, and will be] which are [spiritually] written therein: for the [spiritual] time [that is, was, and will be] is [spiritually] at hand" (Rev. 1:1-3).

If anyone thinks this is funny, he is laughing at God, not at me. Once one thoroughly understands this spiritual truth of what is, was, and will be, it is not necessary to read the entire Book in the way I have stated it above. However, that is the truth of how this book must be understood.

But we read of no "Third Death." There is NO THIRD DEATH. Adam is called "the first man." Jesus is called "the second man." Therefore the "Second Death" is the culmination of ALL DEATH, seeing that

    "The last enemy being abolished is DEATH," (I Cor. 15:26)

and,

    "…there shall be NO MORE DEATH" (Rev. 21:5).

More on this later.

When we come to our study on Gehenna, hell, hades, unextinguishable fire, the furnace of fire, lake of fire, death, second death, etc., we will go into great detail explaining these things from the Scriptures. No Scripture on any of these subjects will be a problem for your understanding ever again.

And thus we, today, members of the Church of God of the Twenty-First Century, are to "…hear what the spirit says [not what the ‘spirit said,’ past tense only, as this is in the Greek aorist tense and is still ‘saying’ these same things to every generation] unto the churches."

If you can’t or won’t see this, then you probably need read no further. If you don’t understand what I have presented, then God has not opened your mind to the spiritual understanding of this Revelation prophecy, or all of Jesus’ parables, or all of the rest of the Bible.


Hello Roy,

Welcome to the forum...your enthusiasm is well received and we hope to hear from you more as you follow in the Words of Christ.

I placed Ray's last comments in bold to help you understand why people make comments like the one your friend said to you. They do not have an understanding of the Lord and His Word...not a lick. This may seem harsh, but true. Their carnal mind and thoughts attempts to place limits and boundaries on the Word of God which only results in endless contradictions that the church then teaches to be truth. If you continue to study Ray's series on the Lake of Fire, he shows plainly from the scriptures how Satan dwells in the church, all churches. And no matter how firm your understanding of this is, when you speak to someone who has NOT been given that understanding, you two will be poles apart. It's just the way it is and ALL members here can attest to that fact.


Hope this helps,

Marques

[Roy Martin]

Thank you Marques,
Well received.
This is just great,asking questions and getting truthful answers.I love it.
Have a great day.
Roy Martin

[Kat]

Hi Roy,

I'm glad you have joined us 

Some one asked me or commented that Satan couldn't be in all the churches at the same time,that he can be in only one place at a time.

This turned out to be longer than I intended, but I think it will help shed a little light on this subject, to answer your question.
Here is what I found in the Scriptures concerning Satan, he is a created being.

Col 1:16  for in Him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;

Neh 9:6  Thou art the LORD, even Thou alone; Thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth and all things that are thereon, the seas and all that is in them, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

Satan is spirit, like the angels, because Matt. refers to Satan and his angels.

Mat 25:41  "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, "Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Now it says in Corinthians that he 'appears' as “an angel of light,” but in Ephesians we see he in an angel or “ruler of the darkness of this age.”

2Co 11:14  And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.

Eph 6:11  Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
v. 12  For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

So I am trying to show that Satan is a being, a spirit being with a spirit body, so he can only be in one place at one time.

1Co 15:40  There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. But the glory of the heavenly is truly different, and that of the earthly different;

Now we do know that the church is called the Synagogue of Satan.  Ray has a whole article on this - http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html

And the church has the “depth of Satan.”  Ray has an whole article on this also. Here is some excerpts from this article, that I think will help us see how the depths of Satan is in all the churches.

http://bible-truths.com/lake11.html  ------------------

DOES JESUS RESIDE AND DWELL IN THE CHURCH?

Does not Jesus dwell and reside in the Seven Churches of God mentioned in the Book of Revelation? Actually, He does not. Let’s read it:

"Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things says He that holds the seven stars in his right hand, who WALKS in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks" (Rev. 2:1).

Jesus Christ "walks" in the midst of the churches—He does not dwell there; He does not reside there; He does not have His throne there. But someone else does:

SATAN has his "seat [Greek: ‘throne’]" in the Churches (Rev. 2:13)

SATAN "dwells" in the Churches (Rev. 2:13).

SATAN still has his "synagogue" in the Churches (Rev. 2:9 & 3:9).

SATAN’S "depths" of doctrinal evils are in the Churches (Rev. 2:24).

It is Satan who has his "throne" in the Churches--the Throne of Jesus Christ is in Heaven with His Father (Rev. 3:21), not in the church. He is not enthroned in the Church; He merely "walks" in the Churches.
v
v
Ironically, The Christian Church writes books about, teaches in her seminaries, and preaches from her pulpits, in a most vigorous manner, The DEPTHS of Satan. Contrariwise, she avoids teaching The DEPTHS of God, and accuses those who do, of being false prophets and of the devil.
v
v
Little wonder that the Church worldwide does not acknowledge the whereabouts of the depths of Satan. Yet, this is no secret for those who have eyes to see it. "The DEPTHS of Satan is found IN THE CHURCH itself. Satan does not attack the Church from without, but from within:
v
v
"And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am He which searches the reins and hearts [one cannot have the mind and spirit of Christ and yet think it a fair and just thing to torture people for all eternity]: and I give unto every one of you according to your works, But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as HAVE NOT this doctrine, and which HAVE NOT known the depths of Satan, as they [the teachers and preachers] speak; I will put upon you NONE other burden" (Rev. 2:23-24).

And so the modern Church is filled with the depths of Satan and his evil doctrines, but of the "depths of God," precious little is taught. The doctrines that are Scriptural, such as the fact that Jesus Christ is the Saviour of the whole world, and that God will save the whole world, and all that God has created is here for the express purpose of training humanity to becomes sons and daughters of God, in the very image of God, are not taught in most churches.
v
v
"Now I say, That the heir [the potential, prospective, heir to the kingdom of God in the first resurrection], as long as he is A CHILD [wants to remain a minor under the Old Covenant Law of Moses] differs NOTHING FROM A SERVANT, though he be lord of all; but is under tutors and governors UNTIL the time appointed of the father" (Gal. 4:1-2).

Do you follow this? An heir to the Kingdom of God, as long as he does not mature, will never inherit his Father’s Kingdom, but is in no better position that a "servant" who will never be heir to his master’s household! Let them who have ears to hear, HEAR. You cannot mature on mother’s milk. The Church furnishes mother’s milk to children and corrupts their minds with "the DEPTHS of Satan." We must "come out of her" if we are to be God’s people.
v
v
This is exactly what Jesus Christ taught regarding where and how we are to (go to church) worship God.

"The woman said unto Him, Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet. Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye [all the Jews] say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. Jesus said unto her, Woman, believe Me, the hour comes, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour comes, and now is, when the TRUE worshippers shall worship the Father in SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH: for the Father seeks such to worship Him. God is Spirit: and they that worship Him MUST worship in SPIRIT AND TRUTH" (John 4:19:24).

We have got to get out of the depths of Satan if we are to worship God in Spirit and Truth. The Church is filled with the depths of Satan. That is not the place to go to worship God in spirit and truth. Did Jesus go to the synagogues to worship His God?

"And when He [Jesus] had sent the multitudes away, He went up into a mountain apart [Gk: ‘by Himself’] to pray: and when the evening was come, He was there alone" (Matt. 14:23).
v
v
And although the Church has the milk of the word, they also have "the DEPTHS of Satan" in their "minds and hearts." It is but the remainder, the few, "the rest in Thyratira," and therefore, the rest in the seven churches, "which HAVE NOT this doctrine, and which HAVE NOT known [in their ‘minds and hearts’] THE DEPTHS OF SATAN."

Virtually all Christian Churches worldwide have within their doctrines, the depths of Satan. And that is why the cry goes out from God Almighty:

"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying ‘COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE, that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues" (Rev. 18:4).

Come out of… who? Who is the "her?" Her is a WOMAN. A woman in Scripture is a symbol for a CHURCH.
Who is to "come out?" Answer: "MY people." Where are they? In her, in the CHURCH. What Church? The MOTHER CHURCH. Who is the MOTHER CHURCH?
The church that appears to be so good, with good doctrines, and good teachings and spiritual appearing good works and righteousness, which in reality are abominations:

"And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will show unto you the judgment of the GREAT WHORE that sits upon many waters [many nations of people]: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication [intimate religious/political/economic relationships], and the inhabitants of the earth have been made [spiritually] DRUNK with the wine of her fornication. So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of ABOMINATIONS and FILTHINESS of her FORNICATION: And upon her forehead [where WE should have the name of God our Father, Rev. 14:1, but this mother church has instead…] …a name written,

MYSTERY, BABYLON, THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH"
(Rev. 17:1-5). 

 

[aqrinc]

I hope i am not out of line asking; what ever is the fascination with Satan. He is currently
the ruler of this world but we are not of this world, we are only here as Ambassadors for
GOD And our Lord Jesus Christ.

2Co 5:20
For Christ, then, are we ambassadors, as of God entreating through us. We are
beseeching for Christ's sake, "Be conciliated to God!"

Yes the children of wrath are currently firmly in Satan's grip; we are children of Light, as
such we need to shine the light so those in darkness may see GOD'S Good Work In us.

Eph 2:3 
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh,
fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath,
even as others.

Those who want to sit with satan should not look here; He is where you are coming from.

Rev 2:9  I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the
blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, the ancient serpent called Adversary and Satan,
who is deceiving the whole inhabited earth. It was cast into the earth, and its messengers
were cast with it."

george    

[Kat]

Hi George,

I think as we are coming out of the church we are confused about who and what Satan is.  There much emphasis is put on how 'the devil made us do it' and causes us to sin and he is like a big scary thing.  It kind of hides and keeps us in the dark as to who the beast really is.  So I think it is good to try to learn the reality of who and what Satan is, because as long as we are in this world, just as Jesus while on earth contended with Satan, so must we.

Eph 6:11  Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
v. 12  For we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

James 4:4  Unfaithful creatures! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
v. 5  Or do you suppose it is in vain that the scripture says, "He yearns jealously over the spirit which he has made to dwell in us"?
v. 6  But he gives more grace; therefore it says, "God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble."
v. 7  Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
v. 8  Draw near to God and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you men of double mind.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[aqrinc]

Hi Kat,

It seems that somedays even here we cannot get away from Satan; sorry if anyone is offended.
Ray has written and recorded so much already on the subject of sin and Satan. I thought
one of the conditions for membership to the site was to familiarize oneself with Ray's teaching.
Since all this information is already there, why does it have to be explained almost minutely
again.

There is so much more that can and needs be discussed and learned, yet those Words wait
for another day. Here are some Scriptures that speak to what my concern is about:

1Co 3:1  And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2  I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3  For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4  For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
1Co 3:5  Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

Heb 5:8  Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9  And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Heb 5:10  Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
Heb 5:11  Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
Heb 5:12  For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:13  For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14  But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Heb 6:1  Therefore, having left the discourse of the beginning of Christ, let us go on to full growth, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2  of the baptisms, of doctrine, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3  And this we will do, if God permits.
Heb 6:4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5  and have tasted the good Word of God and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6  and who have fallen away; it is impossible, I say, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify the Son of God afresh to themselves and put Him to an open shame.

george.

[Kat]

But George, that is what we are here to do... discuss Ray's teachings.  Even after reading through all of Ray's articles, can we remember all that we have studied in them?  I know I retain only a small portion of what I read, of course going back to reread is very helpful. 

Another thing is, I know it is difficult to find where Ray has spoken on a particular thing,  so people need help locating what they remember but can't find. 

And there are little bit and pieces more that can be filled in, from the Scriptures, from what Ray has in him articles.  I know until I looked up all those Scriptures and studied that part of Ray's paper, this subject was not real clear to me.  So now I have a much better understanding of it.

I think you can see what i am getting at.  We are all helping each other along here, those that ask and those that answer, and those that just read.  I think the more we go over a subject the better we understand it.  Just thought I would share my thoughts on what you were saying.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[aqrinc]

Kat,

I will agree with you on your entire post, my question is concerning those who really
do not read the material even after it is pointed to them. I know as a moderator you
have enough to do without having to pick up after us. Yes it is a great pleasure and
a privilege for me to be able to assist those who are truly seeking Scriptural answers.
That is not and will never be a cause for concern with me rather my joy since i learn
while helping others.

So let me make it plainly stated, for the Scriptures i will do whatever is needed that
is in my ability. We have so many who are being rescued from Babylon coming here
daily; and our highest service to them is What Say's The Scripture. I call on those
who have come here and been taught by Ray and The Scriptures to dig deeper into
the word. So any can be prepared to give an answer as to why they believe with
GOD'S Word which HE Has Given to us.

Heb 6:9  But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you and things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this way.
Heb 6:10  For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
Heb 6:11  And we desire that each one of you show the same eagerness to the full assurance of hope to the end,
Heb 6:12  that you be not slothful, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
Heb 6:13  For when God made promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no greater, He swore by Himself,
Heb 6:14  saying, "Surely in blessing I will bless you, and in multiplying I will multiply you."
Heb 6:15  And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
Heb 6:16  For men truly swear by the greater, and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.
Heb 6:17  In this way desiring to declare more fully to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, God interposed by an oath,
Heb 6:18  so that by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us,
Heb 6:19  which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters into that within the veil,
Heb 6:20  where the Forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.

george

[Heidi]

Hi there George......Roy Martin is a newbie and I thought that the mods did an excellent job of pointing him in the right direction.  Plus, it was good to reread the material again.  Never forget where we came from......endure to the end.  If Roy Martin does not take this advise and study what has been given to him, then it is between him and God.......and also remember my brother in Christ, millions of people read this site as well........good stuff for them to read or what! 

[Roy Martin]

Thank you everyone for your answers,
I'm sorry that my question seems to be a little unimportant.
The last time I was in church, the pastor was talking about stewardship of money, and our time.He said he had to make a decision that was unpopular about his time because people were stealing his time from doing more important things.Well I haven't been back and will never go  back but not just because of that.Ive been set free from that with the truth.
My step father use to molest me when I was 7-8 years old. My mother was murdered when I was 13. I ended up in a reform school a few months after her death.I had a hate in me that I carried until just recently of coming to bibletruths.In just one night a few weeks ago I had a dream or a visit from God and he took that hate from me and put in me a love I never had.Now I don't hate my past step father or the homosexual.
I grew up in the drug world starting at age 15.I'm now 55 years old or young.I grew up on the streets as some put it.I ended up being rated by the FBI and DEA as one of the top 10 marijuana growers in the nation.
One of the many things one learns to survive in that world is to know your enemy,and I mean every little thing because its that one thing that seems unimportant that will take you down. I had to be a warrior to get where I was and to stay on the top.Well now I am still a warrior that wears the armor of God and He is my strength but I still need to know my enemy.I might be wrong about this and need to give up this kind of thinking as I have many things still to battle and overcome.The good thing is Im all for truth or I wouldnt be on this forum or reading bible truths or left the church.
Im very thankful for all of you.Im glad you are here.
Love
Roy Martin

[Roy Martin]

Hello George,
After giving it some thought,it might be that your right that I should search and study more before asking questions. Too often I tend to seek answers from people rather than counting on the Spirit that is in us to give me the answers. Every time I stand on the promise of the comforter and say,"I need this answer from You,You promised us this and I expect to receive it,well I usually get it, but most of the time it takes meditating a lot and suddenly there it is.I have also found out though that just out of the blue while talking about God and His word or just listening to someone talk about God,or a testimony that an answer would come to me or a revelation of some kind.It always makes me feel so good when this happens.
  For 45 years I lived and saw everything in the flesh,carnal.Just 10 years ago I thought I didnt even believe in God but at times would catch myself cursing Him.I thought that if there was a God that He was mean and cruel.I thought  I had it made with all that cash from my pot fields and such, but over night God brought me to my knees and shattered that world,(understatement).I started crying out to God in complete torment that took many years before God took away the pain,a pain that I cant even describe. There is much more to this story but we dont need to go there.I ended up in prison during this hardship,but still kept seeking God and it was while I was in prison that God used me the most.People that didnt even know me would come to me and just start opening up to me and say they could see something good in me and felt like they could talk to me.For a while I didnt know how to except this but I always would say, "its not me but the Spirit that they were drawn to.Some would ask questions and some wanted to share their heart with me.Most of the time I didnt have a clue as what to answer or say but God would always put the words in my mouth.It was a wonderful feeling,not a puffed up thing but wonderful.I seldom can remember what came out of my mouth half the time. The neatest thing was that  what God said to them was also revelation to me and answers to things I was dealing with. There have been times when some one would start talking to me and be asking questions when I didnt want to hear them and then suddenly I would realize that it was God that sent this person to me and I would start to listen and wow there's that wonderful feeling again.I will give you one more story of prison time.
I noticed this man a few feet from me as I was playing guitar with a few other men.I sensed that he was trying to get my attention or was waiting for a chance.I ignored him and went about my business.Later that night I felt terrible about it.I asked God to forgive me and to give me another chance.I knew I had to make it right so I found him sitting alone at a table. I sat down next to him and said, "I cant keep from feeling that you want to talk to me.He swelled up with tears in his eyes and said he had been trying to get near to me for several days to ask and talk about God and some promises he made to God but didnt keep his promise and other things that was hurting him.I dont know what I said to him but he left with a smile on his face as if a giant load came off of him.We became to be very good friends and did alot of fellow shipping.My point is, his blessing was my blessing and it was more than wonderful.I have many stories like this that I will share as I grow more in Christ.
I know that when some one has a question or just wants to share with me, that Im being tested and am about to be blessed.I love to be used by God.It gets a big Wow! feels good thing that you want more of.
Peace my new friend
Roy Martin

[Ninny]

Oh WOW! Roy, you have been through so much pain in your life! I am glad you have found peace and healing. My prayer for you would be that God will continue your healing and will use you in fantastic ways you couldn't begin to imagine! I know that what WE think God may do in us is not even CLOSE to what God really wants to do in us!
Keep growing in Him!
Kathy

[EKnight]

But George, that is what we are here to do... discuss Ray's teachings.  Even after reading through all of Ray's articles, can we remember all that we have studied in them?  I know I retain only a small portion of what I read, of course going back to reread is very helpful. 

Another thing is, I know it is difficult to find where Ray has spoken on a particular thing,  so people need help locating what they remember but can't find. 

And there are little bit and pieces more that can be filled in, from the Scriptures, from what Ray has in him articles.  I know until I looked up all those Scriptures and studied that part of Ray's paper, this subject was not real clear to me.  So now I have a much better understanding of it.

I think you can see what i am getting at.  We are all helping each other along here, those that ask and those that answer, and those that just read.  I think the more we go over a subject the better we understand it.  Just thought I would share my thoughts on what you were saying.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Thank you Kat, you have expressed my very thoughts articulately.  In fact, before even reading this thread and because I had started a similar thread, I recalled hearing/reading exactly what Roy Martin said:

I'm sorry,
I totally got beside myself in my first message and forgot my subject of Satan and omni presence
Some one asked me or commented that Satan couldn't be in all the churches at the same time,that he can be in only one place at a time.I have never seen this in scripture. I know nothing of Satan on this topic. Can someone give me some insight?
Thank You
Roy Martin

And since BT is the only place I read, I spent quite some time searching for this and could not find it.  My point is, you are correct when you say sometimes people read things don't retain all the details and then can't find where they read it in the first place.  Happens to me ALL the time.

Someone showed me this google search.  In the search box I put the topic or words I am looking for and then "site:Bible-truths.com" to search what I am looking for within the BT site only.  For example:  

Does satan exist site:bible-truths.com

This brings up all of the threads, emails, papers etc that contain the topic Satan within bible-truths.com.  It works beautifully and there is Soooooooooo much information to be found.  

Hope that helps some to find what they are looking for.

Eileen

[Kat]

Hi Eileen,

You are right the advanced Google search is what I use to find things all the time.  Here is the link for anyone that might want to use it  http://www.google.com/advanced_search?hl=en

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Dave in Tenn]

Hi Roy.  I haven't lived your life exactly, but I know what you are talking about.  The truth is setting me free from a lot of the old world stuff too.  The teaching and scripture Kat and Marques shared are the things you most need to know. 

There IS spiritual warfare, and you may well meet him or one of his messengers if you haven't already.  Greater (Bigger, stronger, tougher) is He that is in you than he that is in the world.  The serpent's head is crushed under the heel of Christ.  That's pretty tough, no matter where you come from.  With the Spirit of God, we can be spiritual 'snake handlers', though being a full time rattler-wrangler is a specialty, I think.   

Don't give the devil more respect than he is due.  Frankly, I don't think he's due much respect at all.  Christ said, "Get thee behind me, satan."  That sounds an awful lot like "Get out of my face." to me.

He may not be everywhere at once, but his Doctrine is, his lies are, and his children are. 

Don't be defined by your enemies, though.  It's God who tells us who we are.  His children will be our Father's children one of these days, just as you and I are becoming.  And knowing and holding to Truth will deal with the rest in defense.  On the attack?  That's another thread.  I'm looking forward to that one.   

God bless you, man.   

[Samson]

But George, that is what we are here to do... discuss Ray's teachings.  Even after reading through all of Ray's articles, can we remember all that we have studied in them?  I know I retain only a small portion of what I read, of course going back to reread is very helpful. 

Another thing is, I know it is difficult to find where Ray has spoken on a particular thing,  so people need help locating what they remember but can't find. 

And there are little bit and pieces more that can be filled in, from the Scriptures, from what Ray has in him articles.  I know until I looked up all those Scriptures and studied that part of Ray's paper, this subject was not real clear to me.  So now I have a much better understanding of it.

I think you can see what i am getting at.  We are all helping each other along here, those that ask and those that answer, and those that just read.  I think the more we go over a subject the better we understand it.  Just thought I would share my thoughts on what you were saying.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Thanks Kat,

                                 I think that Kat makes a valid point in the above. Through the repetition of reading,
                                 re-reading, meditating and asking further questions on Ray's material helps in the
                                 process of retaining the meaning of all these long and many topics.

                                 I have read every one of Rays Topics at least once and some of them multiple times,
                                 but as Kat mentioned, we might forget some of the material. Sometimes I have personal
                                 discussions with Forum members through the telephone making reference to a point I
                                 remember from Rays material, but forget what topic it came from.

                                 Also, I have at least 50% of Rays material printed, so I can study at work on occasion.
                                 All of the Forum members have different circumstances in regards to available time for
                                 study, deeper research and the level of understanding and ability to retain information
                                 varies amongst individuals. Of course, God is in total control as to how much understanding
                                 each and every one of us receives.

                                 Another point to consider, some of us(including me) MIGHT be focusing on certain areas
                                 of Truth more heavily than some of the other Topics in order to master an understanding
                                 in these particular areas; Examples: The myth of Free will, The true meaning of certain
                                 Greek and Hebrew words, some difficult passages of Scripture; etc, etc.

                                 The Moderators, Rodger, Beloved and others have a much deeper understanding than I
                                 do and regardless of a list of reasons as to why, the facts are the facts. I get great
                                 benefit from reading some of the responses of Marques, Rodger, Kat, Joe Hillsbororiver and
                                 others on topics that I personally haven't had time to examine more thoroughly.

                                 Thanks to those Spiritual heavy hitters mentioned above for the time they devote to
                                 adding insight on different topics for the benefit of the Forum.

                                                            Kind Regards, Samson.

[Roy Martin]

Thank you Kathy,
Your compassion made me cry,I mean really, but my story isn't about me or for me.Its about God working in me and us and through us.Yes my past was very painful and this might sound strange but I wouldn't change a thing about my past if I could. God worked it all out for the good.Now I thank Him for the trials and hardships I went through.
I see you have a wonderful heart.Its nice to meet you.
God Bless
Roy Martin

[Roy Martin]

I thank all of you for your input and sincerity.I am overwhelmed by the love I sense. I have seen and felt more love and compassion and willingness to help and teach in just your responses to my question than I did in going to the church buildings for 10 years.This is what its all about.Man! this is church to me.
Love, peace and joy and all that's good to all of you,
Roy Martin