My approached to prayer has changed

[mhykx]

Although I must admit that I don't understand 100% yet the teaching about "free will", my approach to (in?) prayer has changed.  Before, I kind'a somewhat pushed or stressed my "will" to God to hear me...begging Him to grant my request.  I know that these, in effect, are not bad at all (in my own judgement, that is) but when I began (or am beginning) to understand what is God's will, the sad feeling when the tought of "what if God doesn't grant my request" has gone.  Indeed, when you know God works to your best benefit, everything (good or bad) becomes a blessing!

[daywalker]

Although I must admit that I don't understand 100% yet the teaching about "free will", my approach to (in?) prayer has changed.  Before, I kind'a somewhat pushed or stressed my "will" to God to hear me...begging Him to grant my request.  I know that these, in effect, are not bad at all (in my own judgement, that is) but when I began (or am beginning) to understand what is God's will, the sad feeling when the tought of "what if God doesn't grant my request" has gone.  Indeed, when you know God works to your best benefit, everything (good or bad) becomes a blessing!

Hello there,

It'll take awhile for you to fully comprehend that man has no "free" will. Just as you start to think you got it all figured out, something else comes up [in your mind] and you realize you don't yet 'get it'. I began reading on this site February last year, and it wasn't until just a few months ago, until I truly began to fully comprehend this 'free' will fairy tale. [Of course, I could be slower than most?]

For the longest time, I knew that we didn't have it, and I could explain how we don't and why we don't. But it wasn't until recently, when suddenly *boom* I got it! I understood it! I comprehended it! [...and yes, I do mean "suddenly".. it's like the wisdom wasn't there, and then it was...]

It's ALL in God's timing, not ours. That's the important Truth. When it comes to any Scriptural Truth, first you must believe it, because the Scriptures say it, and then later comes to wisdom to fully understand it.


May God guide you,

- Daywalker

[aqrinc]

Hi Michael,

What do the Scriptures say about this free will stuff:

Php 2:12 
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but
now much more in my absence, cultivate your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Php 2:13 
For it is God who works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Below is something you could read to put things in proper perspective about WHY GOD DOES ANYTHING.

Excerpt from: Who and What is The Father

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.msg34384.html#msg34384

God puts us in the same situation, we have to live our lives.  You may say, well I'll just kill myself.  Not unless God wants you to, you can't kill yourself if God doesn't want you to.  Everybody that ever killed themselves, it was after God said... okay, now you are going to kill yourself. 

He is in control of EVERTHING, through circumstances.  He doesn't make anyone kill themselves against their will, no.  But He puts them into situations where they can't tolerate life anymore and their own will becomes, I want to kill myself.

[Someone ask the question: Is that why Christ was always in prayer?]
Well yes, it's like the old saying; act like it all depends on you and pray like it all depends on God.  That's the way you should live your life.  He could not help but pray. 

What appears to be contradictions are not contradictions, when you have a higher spiritual understanding of what it's talking about.  Let me show you a perfect example and it sounds like a contradiction, but it's not.

Phi 2:12  "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

Doesn't that contradict this whole thing... we're saved by grace and not of works?  Now we're to work out our own salvation?  What is that?  How do you explain that "Of Myself I can do nothing" (John 5:30)?   And He said YOU can do nothing (John 15:5), to the apostles.  Then Paul says "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."  Well it does sound like a contradiction.  But read the next verse and He tells us why.  "For" now that word always means 'because' or it's another word for because.

Phi 2:13  "For (because) it is God who works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure."

Some of you probably still don't get the answer, but it is there.  "Work out your own salvation," is not the gist of that saying.  He is not saying, work out your own salvation(.)  No, He's saying "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, that's where the emphases is, on fear and trembling, not on work out your own salvation. 

You work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, why?  Because it all depends on God!  If God doesn't do it, it won't happen, IT WON'T HAPPEN!  So we live in fear and trepidation.

I cannot drive down the street, being the safest driver that I can be and know that I will avoid an accident, if God has already determined I'm going to have one.  What it doesn't mean is you can drive down the road foolishly... or you don't need to wear a seat belt... or close your eyes for a while... or something like that.  But you do have to act it out.  Why?  You have to, He makes you. 

He made you come out of your mother's womb and He made you cry.  Not that He forced you, but circumstances, He brought about all the circumstances.  He made you cry, makes you grow and makes you fight with your kid brother. 

You do all these things and people reach a place where they get tired of it.  So we have plays like 'Stop the world I want to get off.'  It's like I've had enough, I'm at the end of my rope and it's the end of the line.  Well it's only the end of the line IF God has determined it's the end of the line. 
If say you came to that conclusion at 8:30, and He knows you won't die until your 77 1/2, then you're not going to end it. 

That's where the fear and trepidation come in.  It ALL depends on God, there's nothing you can do.  But YOU have to work it out.  YOU have to get up and go to work.  YOU have to do all this stuff. 

Then you say I don't want to anymore, well circumstances make you.
So you think, I'll just end it all... then your child comes up and says 'Mommie.'  Now you say, oh my gosh I have a child, I can't kill myself I've got to live for my child.  You see? 

So God makes you live this life.  He makes you do all this, HE MAKES YOU DO IT.  But not against your will.  He puts you in circumstances and that's the only way you can go.  The ONLY way!

You think, 'I shouldn't have done this or that.'  That's right you should think that way.  You should think that... 'I shouldn't have done that,' because then you're learning.


george.

[mhykx]

Hi George!

Thanks for this excerpt!  That instantly answers my question about "Work out your own salvation..."

Mike

[Ninny]

Hi Mike,
I want to tell you a little story about my grandpa! He was a man of prayer, I always heard that he didn't mind expressing his opinion about things if he didn't agree with something. I didn't know this about him because he was my grandpa and he died when I was 12 so I never saw anything negative about him. I did know though, that he trusted God no matter what the circumstances he knew what ever happened to him was God's will. When he said anything about going anywhere or doing anything he always prefaced it with, "If the Lord is willing ..." It has taken me a lot of years to understand why he talked like that!

Everyone knew his life was a life of prayer and submission. My grandma was babysitting a little 5 year old boy one time...my grandparents' last name was Olds, the little boy ran into the kitchen where my grandma was making lunch, this has always made me laugh, "Mrs Olds! Mrs. Olds!" She took the little boy by the shoulders and said, "Calm down now and tell me what's wrong!" The little guy was so excited, he said, "I know why Mr. Olds prays so good!! I saw him out by that big old tree PRACTICING!"  (every time I think of that incident I can't help seeing Opie Taylor (the Andy Griffith Show) in my mind's eye!!)
I have always remembered that! We should all be "caught" practicing our praying! We should always be in an attitude of prayer and always pray according to God's will, it's as Ray says, "If you pray according to God's will ALL of your prayers will be answered!" That sounds easy, and it is when we can get to the place in our life where we KNOW that God is in control of everything!
Kathy

[Marlene]

Kathy, That was so nice. Yes, I have learned one thing , it is all Gods will.  God will take care of us no matter if it turns out like we want. He knows, what we need better then we do. After, all he Created us. Sounds, like your Grandfather knew his Maker.

In His Love,
Marlene

[aqrinc]

Kathy,

Now you bring memories up, as a little child i remember some of the adults in our
Family always saying: (God's willing we can do it). I guess many of them had a
better handle on, (this free will thing) than we do today.

George .

[Heidi]

George....thank you for posting your reply to Mike as it refreshed my memory having read the article....very timely.  God is good. 

Heidi

PS Kathy, I loved your story as well....what an awesome childhood memory!

[aqrinc]

Heidi,

We learn from The Scriptures and from each other when possible. Something about edifying
the brethren (sisthren). That is my understanding of what we do in the Body Of Jesus Christ.

george.

[Vangie]

Good word George -- sisthren.  I like that! 

[mhykx]

Thanks again George!

And Kathy, your story really touches me.

Although I never had a grandpa or even a dad whose life is full of prayer, I hope, I wish, I pray that my own prayer life, God willing, will always be remembered by my little ones.

It's indeed a great responsibility as a father whose action, words, attitude, etc. are being constantly looked up by his children.

[Ninny]

Mike, that is so true! I wish it was every man's goal to be a good example for his children! 
Kathy